home protection - Page 2

Alert · February 10, 2009, 09:00 AM

it just appalls me that a simple word like protection can be so horribly misspelled, but then people misspell defense everyday

Sith_Lord_Hritz · February 10, 2009, 03:39 PM

I think some of the people here are making more of his comment then it needs to be. We all know what it means to protect ourselves and even if you don’t want to admit it we are all afraid of day when you might have to use deadly force to save your life or one of your families. Unless you are insane no one wants to take another life unless absolutely necessary. With that being said we all like to talk trash and make comments like this with our shooting buddies its just the way it is. Really not that big of a deal unless you really mean it and most of us don’t.
Anyway I think any shotgun load other then slug at HD range is going to work just fine. I like to use a bird shot it the gun I have for my wife because if she needs to shoot any contact is better then none. I think if someone was threatening another’s life and heard the sound of a shotgun firing at them at close range even if only one bb hit them the sound alone would make the average person think twice. The chance of someone trying to kill you in your own home is very unlikely. This is my first post here on the forums sorry it was such a long read I could be wrong about everything I said but its my opinion.

cougar8040 · February 10, 2009, 03:51 PM

thanks sith_lord_hritz now because of a little comment i made trying to be funny, people have made uneducated guesses about my personality. Not the kind of treatment i expected to get by joining this forum. This is not a firearms forum to me anymore, it is now a call the guy with the funny comments a uneducated teen forum. Which by the way is completely false. however owning the gun from rambo part 1 would be pretty nice

Lee Lapin · February 10, 2009, 08:10 PM

now because of a little comment i made trying to be funny, people have made uneducated guesses about my personality.

One of the earliest things people generally learn about the Internet is that humor often doesn't go over very well. Just over on the right side of the box we type in to compose a post as an assortment of things called smilies. Like this one:

.

Now back in the olden computer days of terminals and accoustic couplers and baud rates, we had to type smilies- like this: 8^) . That meant they all wound up sideways, but it was pretty clear what they were.

cougar8040, I just went back and looked at the original post where you mentioned blowing holes in walls in the process of not letting an intruder escape, and I didn't see any smilies. No JK either (just kidding). So yeah, I took the statement seriously.

For about 40 years now it's seemed to me that killing people, or getting killed if you messed up, was serious business. So please excuse me for arriving at the wrong conclusions based solely on what you posted, and what you didn't. My only concern was that you might get into trouble, since that isn't an issue I'll go mind my own business.

lpl

Katrina Guy · February 13, 2009, 01:23 PM

the 8 in the head poster really ought to consider civil liability , copper friend's criminal prosecution advice asside.

ddeyo1 · February 13, 2009, 02:38 PM

I had someone walk into my house drunk out of theyre mind once, and thought they were in theyre own home. Of course you know what i had in my hands because i didnt know what was going on. Just the sound of a shell racking made him hit the floor and cover his head (aparently not drunk enought o forget what a pump gun racking sounds like) Now if i had gone of willy nilly blowing holes in him somebody would have lost a father and a husband. Just take it easy and remember its not allways someone with the intention to rape pillage and plunder.

Katrina Guy · February 13, 2009, 03:13 PM

In Katrina Guy's opinion.

Regolith · February 14, 2009, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Personal Defense TV said "Bird Shot's the best option for encounter within 10 yards"!

I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Unless you're pretty close, birdshot has a tendency to cause massive but superficial flesh wounds. It generally doesn't have the ability to penetrate deep enough to do the job.

10 yards may or may not be close enough. I don't know, I haven't tested it myself, but I would want to be a lot closer than that - maybe five yards - if all I had were birdshot. And since you can't always pick the distance of a gun fight, I'd say it'd be unwise to use something that limits you in such a fashion.

Personally, I use 00 buck. Within 25 yards or so, anything down to lead BB is probably acceptable, but not optimal. Much below that, and it's a toss of the dice.

Hamour · February 14, 2009, 01:31 PM

The Original question was about what was best with a 12 ga. Last years news events here in Texas should answere that for you.

Joe Horn in Pasadena TX used 00 and 12 ga to great effect. 3 shots 2 Terminated thieves.

Another older gentleman in Dallas had a burglar problem, 40 plus burglaries in one year. 12ga and 00 buck. 3 shots, 2 Terminated burglars and one gut shot in hospital.

What worked for these older brave souls will also work for you. 00 buck at shot gun distance is a proven man stopper!

RetiredLawman · February 14, 2009, 02:08 PM

Lee gave some great advice. I have seen the aftermath of too many of these type cases. An overambitious prosecutor out to make a name for himself will change a person's mind. Lawyers don't come cheap. You are looking at 50 grand as a retainer. Then $500 or more per hour for the attorney, his secretarty, and a couple of paralegals.

That doesn't count the costs of the civil trial. In this litigatious society, you can very well look to be sued by the family of the deceased. I have been to civil trials when the defendant protecting his property lost everything he had. Of course, your homeowner's policy will cover the first $100,000 in awarded damages, then will cancel your policy. No other company will touch you for coverage.

Some of the posters here may need a course in anger management, along with a visit to a defense attorney for a free consultation. It ain't worth it, guys, to start shooting first. Go to a CCW class and listen in and you will learn more than we can tell you here on this site.

scott0 · February 14, 2009, 04:22 PM

i keep hornaday low recoil 00 buck loads in my 12ga.

Creature · February 14, 2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

i keep hornaday low recoil 00 buck loads in my 12ga

Same here...nine of 'em.

Mossberg 590A1

eaglesnester · February 14, 2009, 05:38 PM

Bird shot #7, double 0 buck and slugs all have their place in home defense situations. You do not want to shoot completely through your walls to the outside or injure a family member in the next room. In this case bird shot would be the round of choice. When you are outside and can see where your rounds are going to go after they go through the perp and if it is safe to do so use buckshot or slugs. The point here is you do not wish to injure an innocent bystander or damage anyone else property with your miss placed rounds.

Regolith · February 14, 2009, 08:22 PM

The problem is, if it's likely to penetrate a bad guy enough to "stop" the fight, it's going to penetrate dry wall, too. You can't get around that. TANSTAAFL, and all of that.

It's better to choose your shots and your backstop in order to reduce the likelihood of innocents getting injured and use adequate ammunition than it is to trust that a product designed for killing small game usually weighing no more than 5 lbs will work adequately for self defense on a 150-250 lb human being.

February 10, 2009, 09:00 AM	#26
Alert Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2007 Location: Mobile, Alabama Posts: 203	it just appalls me that a simple word like protection can be so horribly misspelled, but then people misspell defense everyday __________________ "One man with courage makes a majority" Andrew Jackson

February 13, 2009, 01:23 PM	#30
Katrina Guy Junior member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Posts: 315	halfway surprised Dave hasn't shut this one down, the 8 in the head poster really ought to consider civil liability , copper friend's criminal prosecution advice asside.

February 13, 2009, 02:38 PM	#31
ddeyo1 Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2008 Posts: 195	I had someone walk into my house drunk out of theyre mind once, and thought they were in theyre own home. Of course you know what i had in my hands because i didnt know what was going on. Just the sound of a shell racking made him hit the floor and cover his head (aparently not drunk enought o forget what a pump gun racking sounds like) Now if i had gone of willy nilly blowing holes in him somebody would have lost a father and a husband. Just take it easy and remember its not allways someone with the intention to rape pillage and plunder. __________________ Beware the man with one rifle... He probobly knows how to use it.

February 13, 2009, 03:13 PM	#32
Katrina Guy Junior member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Posts: 315	yea, something's flawed in this uzzi type response In Katrina Guy's opinion.

February 14, 2009, 04:22 PM	#36
scott0 Junior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Posts: 10	i keep hornaday low recoil 00 buck loads in my 12ga. Last edited by scott0; February 14, 2009 at 04:49 PM.

February 10, 2009, 03:39 PM	#27
Sith_Lord_Hritz Junior Member Join Date: February 10, 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 7	I think some of the people here are making more of his comment then it needs to be. We all know what it means to protect ourselves and even if you don’t want to admit it we are all afraid of day when you might have to use deadly force to save your life or one of your families. Unless you are insane no one wants to take another life unless absolutely necessary. With that being said we all like to talk trash and make comments like this with our shooting buddies its just the way it is. Really not that big of a deal unless you really mean it and most of us don’t. Anyway I think any shotgun load other then slug at HD range is going to work just fine. I like to use a bird shot it the gun I have for my wife because if she needs to shoot any contact is better then none. I think if someone was threatening another’s life and heard the sound of a shotgun firing at them at close range even if only one bb hit them the sound alone would make the average person think twice. The chance of someone trying to kill you in your own home is very unlikely. This is my first post here on the forums sorry it was such a long read I could be wrong about everything I said but its my opinion.

February 10, 2009, 03:51 PM	#28
cougar8040 Junior member Join Date: February 3, 2009 Location: dyer Posts: 11	thanks sith_lord_hritz now because of a little comment i made trying to be funny, people have made uneducated guesses about my personality. Not the kind of treatment i expected to get by joining this forum. This is not a firearms forum to me anymore, it is now a call the guy with the funny comments a uneducated teen forum. Which by the way is completely false. however owning the gun from rambo part 1 would be pretty nice

February 10, 2009, 08:10 PM	#29
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	now because of a little comment i made trying to be funny, people have made uneducated guesses about my personality. One of the earliest things people generally learn about the Internet is that humor often doesn't go over very well. Just over on the right side of the box we type in to compose a post as an assortment of things called smilies. Like this one: . Now back in the olden computer days of terminals and accoustic couplers and baud rates, we had to type smilies- like this: 8^) . That meant they all wound up sideways, but it was pretty clear what they were. cougar8040, I just went back and looked at the original post where you mentioned blowing holes in walls in the process of not letting an intruder escape, and I didn't see any smilies. No JK either (just kidding). So yeah, I took the statement seriously. For about 40 years now it's seemed to me that killing people, or getting killed if you messed up, was serious business. So please excuse me for arriving at the wrong conclusions based solely on what you posted, and what you didn't. My only concern was that you might get into trouble, since that isn't an issue I'll go mind my own business. lpl

February 14, 2009, 01:31 PM	#34
Hamour Member Join Date: September 9, 2007 Posts: 68	The Original question was about what was best with a 12 ga. Last years news events here in Texas should answere that for you. Joe Horn in Pasadena TX used 00 and 12 ga to great effect. 3 shots 2 Terminated thieves. Another older gentleman in Dallas had a burglar problem, 40 plus burglaries in one year. 12ga and 00 buck. 3 shots, 2 Terminated burglars and one gut shot in hospital. What worked for these older brave souls will also work for you. 00 buck at shot gun distance is a proven man stopper!

February 14, 2009, 02:08 PM	#35
RetiredLawman Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2008 Posts: 133	Lee gave some great advice. I have seen the aftermath of too many of these type cases. An overambitious prosecutor out to make a name for himself will change a person's mind. Lawyers don't come cheap. You are looking at 50 grand as a retainer. Then $500 or more per hour for the attorney, his secretarty, and a couple of paralegals. That doesn't count the costs of the civil trial. In this litigatious society, you can very well look to be sued by the family of the deceased. I have been to civil trials when the defendant protecting his property lost everything he had. Of course, your homeowner's policy will cover the first $100,000 in awarded damages, then will cancel your policy. No other company will touch you for coverage. Some of the posters here may need a course in anger management, along with a visit to a defense attorney for a free consultation. It ain't worth it, guys, to start shooting first. Go to a CCW class and listen in and you will learn more than we can tell you here on this site.

February 14, 2009, 05:38 PM	#38
eaglesnester Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Posts: 100	Home defense Bird shot #7, double 0 buck and slugs all have their place in home defense situations. You do not want to shoot completely through your walls to the outside or injure a family member in the next room. In this case bird shot would be the round of choice. When you are outside and can see where your rounds are going to go after they go through the perp and if it is safe to do so use buckshot or slugs. The point here is you do not wish to injure an innocent bystander or damage anyone else property with your miss placed rounds.

February 14, 2009, 08:22 PM	#39
Regolith Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2008 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 400	The problem is, if it's likely to penetrate a bad guy enough to "stop" the fight, it's going to penetrate dry wall, too. You can't get around that. TANSTAAFL, and all of that. It's better to choose your shots and your backstop in order to reduce the likelihood of innocents getting injured and use adequate ammunition than it is to trust that a product designed for killing small game usually weighing no more than 5 lbs will work adequately for self defense on a 150-250 lb human being.