Full Choke pattern

Dreaming100Straight · September 12, 2013, 09:20 PM

I did some patterning the other day with my full choke in the under barrel of my 12 gauge. The distance isn't marked, but I believe the steel plate was 35 yards away. I wasn't checking for POI but for the actual size of the pattern. It measured 24" across.

I also checked at 20 yards for POI. I didn't count the little pellet holes, but it looked like my POI was 5 inches high of the POA. I had built up the comb of my XS Skeet with 1/4 inch of molefoam.

These were 1-1/8 oz 1200 fps loads of # 7.5 magnum shot reloaded in once fired Gun Club hulls using Windjammer wads and CCI 209 primers with 19.0 gr of Red Dot for a nominal PSI of about 10,000.

Does this sound about right for a full choke or should I repeat the test. I am going to double check the distance.

Bake · September 12, 2013, 10:29 PM

Sounds OK, maybe a little tight. Are you going to shoot trap, with this combination?

Virginian · September 12, 2013, 10:40 PM

Meaningless without exact distances.

Dreaming100Straight · September 12, 2013, 10:48 PM

I will get the exact distance this weekend, but, yes, I will shoot trap with those loads and I shot my best scores ever with them after visiting the patterning board.

The image of my best scores ever will have 300 and 340 Weatherby in stitches

340 Weatherby · September 13, 2013, 01:16 AM

Yer killin' me Dreamer!

Dreaming100Straight · September 13, 2013, 01:27 AM

You know what they say, "Death to All Skeeters!"

Sarge · September 14, 2013, 12:49 AM

One round each of 12 Gauge, 2 3/4" Universal #7 ½ Field load and Winchester milspec 00 Buck, from my old 30" Full Wingmaster. Range was 40 yards.

BigD_in_FL · September 14, 2013, 08:15 AM

Lots of holes in that pattern, Sarge with the majority of the pellets seeming to be right and above the POA.

Sarge · September 14, 2013, 09:21 AM

It was just offered as an example, not the ne plus ultra of tight patterns. I don't have any trouble breaking clays or killing birds with it at 40. The high pattern could well have been my hold as it was the first time I'd shot the barrel at a fixed target.

Universals are what I had along... if the barrel stays, I'll try AA Trap next time.

saltydog452 · September 14, 2013, 10:48 AM

Would, maybe, a 'looser' constriction thghten up the Buck pattern?

My Bride inherited a Lefever SXS, modified/full. It was well used, apparently with some success, in the Southeast to gather food for the table.

Thanks,

salty

BigD_in_FL · September 14, 2013, 11:30 AM

Not saying it was meant to be the ne plus ultra, but maybe a better quality ammo might give you an even better pattern...........

Dreaming100Straight · September 14, 2013, 05:30 PM

I tried to carefully check the yardage and it looks to be 37 to 38 yards.

I cannot get any scale on Sarge's picture, and I wish I had photographed the patterns and will make that routine. Looking at his pattern and the spacing between the pieces of shot, I think mine was a lot tighter. I don't know if barrel length affects patterns that much, but the one I used is also a 30.

Sarge · September 14, 2013, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Would, maybe, a 'looser' constriction thghten up the Buck pattern?

I expect a buffered buckshot load would do better, but it's fine for coyotes to about 50 yards.

Bake · September 14, 2013, 06:10 PM

38 YDS., is a good distance to pattern at, average distance when a bird is broken, is 36 YDS., (from the 16 YD line).

You might try a Mod. choke, & look for holes in the pattern. If you have holes large enough for the bird to get away, try an Imp.Mod., & again check for holes.

For 16 YD. line, I shoot Mod/ lower barrel. For Doubles, I shoot lower barrel 1st with a Mod., & Imp. Mod. in the upper barrel. Average yardage for 1st shot is about 33 YDS. & 41 YDS. for the 2nd one.

For HDICP, 22 YDS. to 24 YDS. I would use an Imp.Mod, after 24 YDS. I would use a Ful.

The Pattern Brd. is your friend, use it after any changes or something changes.

Dreaming100Straight · September 14, 2013, 09:52 PM

Bake, Your distances for chokes sound right on. I have been using an improved modified for some time, though, since I shoot late. Consequently, my 16 yard break point is about as far out as is your own from the 21 yard handicap.

I had the full in the gun for two reasons. First, this article and the work of Gil and Vicki Ash. Second, I had just raised my comb with moleskin and I wanted to determine its Point of Impact in relation to Point of Aim. BigJimP once suggested the use of a tight choke for that.

Since then I have been shooting 16 yard trap with the full, because some advocate the same to learn to center their breaks.

Here is a link to the article reverenced. http://www.shootingtimes.com/2010/09...clouds_201002/

Dreaming100Straight · September 14, 2013, 10:02 PM

Sarge, Did I write the Buck pattern? I edited that post before I saw your reply to it, but I meant all I had to determine the size of the #7.5 shot's pattern was the pattern of the buckshot.

As for that, I have very little familiarity with buckshot at anything further than home defense distances and then with an open cylinder.

Can you tell me the size of the paper you patterned with or the target in the middle?

Bake · September 14, 2013, 11:15 PM

When I change something/anything that might change the POA:POI ratio I'll use the tightest choke in my bag, to pattern it. Afterwards I go back to my regular chokes.

This week, I replaced a M.C. trap stock on one of my Brownings with a regular field/skeet stock. With the M.C. stock, POI was at lease 18" higher than the POA (110%/-00%). With the new stock POI is 6'' higher then the POA (75%/25%). ( Know anyone who wants to buy a Browning MC stock?) I then shot 2 rounds 23 & 24, not bad for a guy 70 years old and hasn't shot trap, really for about 10 years...

Dreaming100Straight · September 15, 2013, 12:27 AM

Damn, Bake. I didn't realize a MC changed the POI that much. I imagine it depends on the particular stance and bone structure of the shooter. I had thought about getting an MC but I think my wife is getting me an adjustable comb installed on my Browning Citori XS Skeet. Something some of the guys know I have wanted for a long time as I can raise it for trap and lower it for Skeet and perhaps some Sporting Clays.

As for the 23, 24, I wish I only shot as well. My average for the last 8 rounds with that full choke dropped today to a 21 due to a single horrible round.

Sarge · September 15, 2013, 02:03 AM

100Straight, that pattern was shot on a reversed B21 pistol silhouette and the aiming point is a 50 foot slow fire target, that was stapled in the middle of it. It prints out from a PDF onto standard copy paper and the black bullseye is about 2¼".

Bake · September 15, 2013, 02:23 AM

Dream,

You are a lucky man, if my wife got me an adjustable stock for one of my guns, she would have used one of my credit cards.

Size of face (Cheek bone), lenigh of neck, and shoulder will all impact fit. Plus the position of your feet, knees, and hips will also effect your scores.

Don't worry about one bad round, or even a whole match. As you shoot, they will become fewer & fewer, and farther apart.

Do you reload your own? Reloading had the biggest impact on my shooting. I would shoot a whole box from station 1 before moving on, then a whole box at station 2, and so on & so on, intill I had shot 125 rounds. Sometimes I would ask the guy running the range to lock the thrower in one position, and then shoot a complete round of "Hard Rights" from all stations, or maybe just station 5. The same with station 1 & "Hard Lefts".

Just keep your head down, and don't stop your swing, its a piece of "Cake"

Dreaming100Straight · September 15, 2013, 03:29 AM

The money actually comes out of the same account, but spending it while keeping the woman happy is another thing. The guys here got me into reloading some time back. I save quite a bit by reloading, if I don't count how I pour anything saved plus back into the game.

Easy as pie!

Dreaming100Straight · September 15, 2013, 04:16 AM

Gotcha, Sarge. The B21 is 35" x 45". It's hard for me to tell, but it seems to me that your 7.5 pattern is over 30" and although mine is shot two and perhaps three yards closer its diameter is a mere 24".

One of my shooting partners is a retired machinist and I think I will get him to mike my full, which he did in the past for my mod and im.

September 12, 2013, 09:20 PM	#1
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Full Choke pattern I did some patterning the other day with my full choke in the under barrel of my 12 gauge. The distance isn't marked, but I believe the steel plate was 35 yards away. I wasn't checking for POI but for the actual size of the pattern. It measured 24" across. I also checked at 20 yards for POI. I didn't count the little pellet holes, but it looked like my POI was 5 inches high of the POA. I had built up the comb of my XS Skeet with 1/4 inch of molefoam. These were 1-1/8 oz 1200 fps loads of # 7.5 magnum shot reloaded in once fired Gun Club hulls using Windjammer wads and CCI 209 primers with 19.0 gr of Red Dot for a nominal PSI of about 10,000. Does this sound about right for a full choke or should I repeat the test. I am going to double check the distance. Last edited by Dreaming100Straight; September 12, 2013 at 09:50 PM.

September 12, 2013, 10:29 PM	#2
Bake Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2012 Location: San Joaquin Valley, Calif. Posts: 482	Sounds OK, maybe a little tight. Are you going to shoot trap, with this combination? __________________ 1. The pattern board is your friend, use the Dam thing!!! 2. The maximum range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually measured in miles, and means nothing. 2a. The effective range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually (the ability of the shooter) measured in yards, and means everything.

September 14, 2013, 09:21 AM	#9
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	It was just offered as an example, not the ne plus ultra of tight patterns. I don't have any trouble breaking clays or killing birds with it at 40. The high pattern could well have been my hold as it was the first time I'd shot the barrel at a fixed target. Universals are what I had along... if the barrel stays, I'll try AA Trap next time. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

September 14, 2013, 10:48 AM	#10
saltydog452 Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2004 Posts: 516	Rookie asks Would, maybe, a 'looser' constriction thghten up the Buck pattern? My Bride inherited a Lefever SXS, modified/full. It was well used, apparently with some success, in the Southeast to gather food for the table. Thanks, salty __________________ Bread and Circuses don't pay the Bills.

September 14, 2013, 05:30 PM	#12
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	I tried to carefully check the yardage and it looks to be 37 to 38 yards. I cannot get any scale on Sarge's picture, and I wish I had photographed the patterns and will make that routine. Looking at his pattern and the spacing between the pieces of shot, I think mine was a lot tighter. I don't know if barrel length affects patterns that much, but the one I used is also a 30. Last edited by Dreaming100Straight; September 14, 2013 at 09:00 PM.

September 12, 2013, 10:40 PM	#3
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	Meaningless without exact distances.

September 12, 2013, 10:48 PM	#4
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	I will get the exact distance this weekend, but, yes, I will shoot trap with those loads and I shot my best scores ever with them after visiting the patterning board. The image of my best scores ever will have 300 and 340 Weatherby in stitches

September 13, 2013, 01:16 AM	#5
340 Weatherby Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Posts: 139	Yer killin' me Dreamer!

September 13, 2013, 01:27 AM	#6
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	You know what they say, "Death to All Skeeters!"

September 14, 2013, 12:49 AM	#7
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	One round each of 12 Gauge, 2 3/4" Universal #7 ½ Field load and Winchester milspec 00 Buck, from my old 30" Full Wingmaster. Range was 40 yards. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

September 14, 2013, 08:15 AM	#8
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Lots of holes in that pattern, Sarge with the majority of the pellets seeming to be right and above the POA.

September 14, 2013, 11:30 AM	#11
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Not saying it was meant to be the ne plus ultra, but maybe a better quality ammo might give you an even better pattern...........

September 14, 2013, 06:10 PM	#14
Bake Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2012 Location: San Joaquin Valley, Calif. Posts: 482	38 YDS., is a good distance to pattern at, average distance when a bird is broken, is 36 YDS., (from the 16 YD line). You might try a Mod. choke, & look for holes in the pattern. If you have holes large enough for the bird to get away, try an Imp.Mod., & again check for holes. For 16 YD. line, I shoot Mod/ lower barrel. For Doubles, I shoot lower barrel 1st with a Mod., & Imp. Mod. in the upper barrel. Average yardage for 1st shot is about 33 YDS. & 41 YDS. for the 2nd one. For HDICP, 22 YDS. to 24 YDS. I would use an Imp.Mod, after 24 YDS. I would use a Ful. The Pattern Brd. is your friend, use it after any changes or something changes. __________________ 1. The pattern board is your friend, use the Dam thing!!! 2. The maximum range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually measured in miles, and means nothing. 2a. The effective range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually (the ability of the shooter) measured in yards, and means everything. Last edited by Bake; September 14, 2013 at 07:23 PM.

September 14, 2013, 09:52 PM	#15
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Bake, Your distances for chokes sound right on. I have been using an improved modified for some time, though, since I shoot late. Consequently, my 16 yard break point is about as far out as is your own from the 21 yard handicap. I had the full in the gun for two reasons. First, this article and the work of Gil and Vicki Ash. Second, I had just raised my comb with moleskin and I wanted to determine its Point of Impact in relation to Point of Aim. BigJimP once suggested the use of a tight choke for that. Since then I have been shooting 16 yard trap with the full, because some advocate the same to learn to center their breaks. Here is a link to the article reverenced. http://www.shootingtimes.com/2010/09...clouds_201002/

September 14, 2013, 10:02 PM	#16
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Sarge, Did I write the Buck pattern? I edited that post before I saw your reply to it, but I meant all I had to determine the size of the #7.5 shot's pattern was the pattern of the buckshot. As for that, I have very little familiarity with buckshot at anything further than home defense distances and then with an open cylinder. Can you tell me the size of the paper you patterned with or the target in the middle?

September 14, 2013, 11:15 PM	#17
Bake Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2012 Location: San Joaquin Valley, Calif. Posts: 482	When I change something/anything that might change the POA:POI ratio I'll use the tightest choke in my bag, to pattern it. Afterwards I go back to my regular chokes. This week, I replaced a M.C. trap stock on one of my Brownings with a regular field/skeet stock. With the M.C. stock, POI was at lease 18" higher than the POA (110%/-00%). With the new stock POI is 6'' higher then the POA (75%/25%). ( Know anyone who wants to buy a Browning MC stock?) I then shot 2 rounds 23 & 24, not bad for a guy 70 years old and hasn't shot trap, really for about 10 years... __________________ 1. The pattern board is your friend, use the Dam thing!!! 2. The maximum range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually measured in miles, and means nothing. 2a. The effective range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually (the ability of the shooter) measured in yards, and means everything.

September 15, 2013, 12:27 AM	#18
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Damn, Bake. I didn't realize a MC changed the POI that much. I imagine it depends on the particular stance and bone structure of the shooter. I had thought about getting an MC but I think my wife is getting me an adjustable comb installed on my Browning Citori XS Skeet. Something some of the guys know I have wanted for a long time as I can raise it for trap and lower it for Skeet and perhaps some Sporting Clays. As for the 23, 24, I wish I only shot as well. My average for the last 8 rounds with that full choke dropped today to a 21 due to a single horrible round. Last edited by Dreaming100Straight; September 15, 2013 at 12:56 AM.

September 15, 2013, 02:03 AM	#19
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	100Straight, that pattern was shot on a reversed B21 pistol silhouette and the aiming point is a 50 foot slow fire target, that was stapled in the middle of it. It prints out from a PDF onto standard copy paper and the black bullseye is about 2¼". __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

September 15, 2013, 02:23 AM	#20
Bake Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2012 Location: San Joaquin Valley, Calif. Posts: 482	Dream, You are a lucky man, if my wife got me an adjustable stock for one of my guns, she would have used one of my credit cards. Size of face (Cheek bone), lenigh of neck, and shoulder will all impact fit. Plus the position of your feet, knees, and hips will also effect your scores. Don't worry about one bad round, or even a whole match. As you shoot, they will become fewer & fewer, and farther apart. Do you reload your own? Reloading had the biggest impact on my shooting. I would shoot a whole box from station 1 before moving on, then a whole box at station 2, and so on & so on, intill I had shot 125 rounds. Sometimes I would ask the guy running the range to lock the thrower in one position, and then shoot a complete round of "Hard Rights" from all stations, or maybe just station 5. The same with station 1 & "Hard Lefts". Just keep your head down, and don't stop your swing, its a piece of "Cake" __________________ 1. The pattern board is your friend, use the Dam thing!!! 2. The maximum range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually measured in miles, and means nothing. 2a. The effective range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually (the ability of the shooter) measured in yards, and means everything.

September 15, 2013, 03:29 AM	#21
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	The money actually comes out of the same account, but spending it while keeping the woman happy is another thing. The guys here got me into reloading some time back. I save quite a bit by reloading, if I don't count how I pour anything saved plus back into the game. Easy as pie!

September 15, 2013, 04:16 AM	#22
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Gotcha, Sarge. The B21 is 35" x 45". It's hard for me to tell, but it seems to me that your 7.5 pattern is over 30" and although mine is shot two and perhaps three yards closer its diameter is a mere 24". One of my shooting partners is a retired machinist and I think I will get him to mike my full, which he did in the past for my mod and im. Last edited by Dreaming100Straight; September 15, 2013 at 04:35 AM.