New S&W M&P shield 40 failure to extract

[tozir]

Hi,
Last weekend I was home from college and decided to buy my first handgun (I just turned 21). I ended up deciding on the shield 40 caliber. A friend and I decided to go shoot our new guns (he bought a glock 17 at the same time as my purchase).
My shield shot fine for me, but when I let my friend shoot it, it failed to extract the 3rd round. He freaked out and gave it back to me. I cleared it (forgot to grab the casing though), reinserted the magazine and fired the rest of the magazine just fine, and indeed had no other issues the rest of the afternoon.
I've discussed this with several people, and the only thing that we can figure is that the failure to extract was caused by a defective casing, rather than it be the gun's fault or my friends possibly questionable grip.
Does anyone have any other ideas what would cause a new gun to have a failure to extract?

[9miller]

All new firearms have a recommended break-in period from the manufacturer, normally anywhere from 200-500 rounds. I wouldn't worry about it uneeds it happens more, especially after the break in period. Also remember to keep a high grip. Was it failing because it stovepiped it the chamber, or did the ejector fail to grab the casing? Amore details could provide you with a more through answer.

9miller

[Evil Monkey]

The whole M&P line is jacked.

Something is wrong with the extractor design. I keep reading and hearing about M&P's having extractor issues.

I'd check that extractor for chips and spring strength. But honestly, I don't think it matters a whole lot. The M&P fullsize and shield extractor just doesn't grab on to enough case rim area. It's like it only grips the rim with the bottom corner of the extractor. Nothing good can come from that.

[TunnelRat]

Something is wrong with the extractor design. I keep reading and hearing about M&P's having extractor issues.

I'd check that extractor for chips and spring strength. But honestly, I don't think it matters a whole lot. The M&P fullsize and shield extractor just doesn't grab on to enough case rim area. It's like it only grips the rim with the bottom corner of the extractor. Nothing good can come from that.

Of the 6 M&Ps I've owned only one had an extraction/ejection issues, and it turned out to be the ejector. Now I wouldn't call the ejection overly positive, but failures to extract have been for me pretty rare. When people go online they generally do so to complain more than to praise. We all remember the posts about Glock ejection issues. It's very hard to determine how widespread an issue truly is.

As to the OP, one casing wouldn't concern me overly. However I would run another few hundred rounds through the pistol and observe if it happens again. If it does seem to be a recurring problem contact S&W.

[Evil Monkey]

Just for clarification, when I'm thinking "failure to extract", I'm thinking the casing never left the chamber.

OP is this the issue you had?

Because if so, this is typical with M&P's and gen 4 glocks and their garbage MIM extractors that are susceptible to over molding, under molding, chipping, etc.

[HiBC]

Evil Monkey:
You said you have "read and heard about" these alleged problems.

Do you have any M+P handguns?Have you fired any M+P handguns?

Can you give a source to tests that show failures?

I'm interested in any first hand or documented experience.

The OP had 1 FTE. OK,new handgun,a number of possible variables.No big concern.

I'm considering buying an M+P product.I've been doing quite a bit of research on them,but have not fired one yet.

I'll recognize Hickock 45 had a couple of issues with one he bought used.S+W made it good.

Other than that,everything I have seen rates them very favorably.

I'm interested in exactly how you came by this knowledge so I know how much credibility to give.

[tozir]

I'll definitely shoot a few hundred rounds before complaining to S&W, just to make sure.
And yes, it was a failure to extract, not a stove pipe. The casing was just sitting in there, pulled out a bit.
Now I'll be honest. It seemed to happen quick, and I went about dropping the mag and racking the slide and reinserting the mag a bit quicker than I should have (should have just analyzed it before doing anything). But the slide locked back, the empty casing was still in the chamber, and I dont believe it attempted to load a new round, since it wasn't jammed up.
The casing was left in the chamber and the slide locked back.

[TunnelRat]

Because if so, this is typical with M&P's and gen 4 glocks and their garbage MIM extractors that are susceptible to over molding, under molding, chipping, etc.

The extractors on HKs are MIM as well as the hammers and external controls. MIM can be done well. Again, 6 M&Ps and counting and I haven't had a MIM failure yet. Picking up another M&P soon too.

[HungryHunter]

Wait..... Weren't you the if it isn't a Glock, or an m&p you're a "hipster" guy?

[Evil Monkey]

Do you have any M+P handguns?Have you fired any M+P handguns?

Yes I have the M&P40 fullsize and have had similar issues.

Can you give a source to tests that show failures?

There's nothing except the numerous upset M&P owners across the internet. It doesn't take a genius to figure out MIM has higher propensity for failure. From what I understand, the M&P extractor is designed to be used for all three calibers 9mm, 40sw, and 45acp. That may compound the problem.

Wait..... Weren't you the if it isn't a Glock, or an m&p you're a "hipster" guy?

Yes. Glock and M&P's are fine defensive handguns when built correctly. Ain't no wonder apex tactical made a tool steel machined aftermarket extractor for the fullsize M&P's.

[HiBC]

OK.
I had planned on doing a little business with Apex.I think the latest M+P products have incorporated some of the Apex trigger upgrades.If the extractor is marginal,its good to know a quality fix is available.

I don't go to other forums,I spend too much time here.I have searched the web and digested about all of the reviews and videos.So far,everything is quite positive.

Among those is Jerry Miculek and Hickock 45.

On MIM,in part,there might be a little xenophobia going on.MIM produces good parts.One very important matter,the parts must be designed for the process.It is not necessarily successful to take a machined or forged part design and decide to produce it MIM.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by Evil Monkey

Yes I have the M&P40 fullsize and have had similar issues.



There's nothing except the numerous upset M&P owners across the internet. It doesn't take a genius to figure out MIM has higher propensity for failure. From what I understand, the M&P extractor is designed to be used for all three calibers 9mm, 40sw, and 45acp. That may compound the problem.



Yes. Glock and M&P's are fine defensive handguns when built correctly. Ain't no wonder apex tactical made a tool steel machined aftermarket extractor for the fullsize M&P's.

I tried out the Failure Resistant extractor on a current production M&P for kicks since I like Apex stuff so much. The ejection actually got worse Lol. I think they really need a little fitting. It probably is a more durable part though.

[fastbolt]

I've been through the M&P pistol armorer class a couple of times (due for a pending recert, probably in the Spring).

I haven't yet had the opportunity to go through the additional 4hr Shield armorer class, but it's still pretty much a smaller M&P. (The M&P Bodyguard .380, on the other hand - also a 4hr class - is described as having more parts than assemblies.)

I've seen a lot of M&P's, including Shields, come through our range in the last several years, and I've owned a pair of them ('08 & '10 production vintages).

I'm of the opinion, contrary to some internet naysayers, that M&P pistol line has become a very good quality example of the plastic-framed service/defensive pistol. We're going to continue to see LE agencies adopt it ... more private owners buying it ... more pistol competitors using it, etc.

I've only handled and fired one recent Shield 40, myself. It was a NIB T&E pistol. I used our current 180gr JHP ammo in it. It was surprisingly controllable for a diminutive .40 pistol, and I own a M&P 40c, 4013TSW, 4040PD & a G27, and I've handled and shot a number of other compact & subcompact .40's over the years.

I expected it to have more felt recoil in the way of muzzle snap/whip, myself.

Nice little pistol.

Now, to the OP ...

Not being able to examine the Shield 40 you bought, observe it being fired by you & your friend, as well as fire it myself, there's no way to know what happened in the situation you described.

However, day in & day out, close to 95% of the feeding stoppages, failures-to-extract and other malfunctions are typically caused, in one manner or another, by the shooters.

Ammunition-related issues make up the next largest percentage of issues.

Lastly followed by the smallest percentage ... being actual gun problems.

Cleaning, examining, lubricating and properly reassembling a new pistol can be an important first step over-looked by new owners/users.

Then there's the matter of clean & dry magazines being used, as well. (I liked how SIG said, in their armorer class, that a pistol isn't clean unless the magazines used in it are also clean. )

Just some thoughts.

[Snyper]

Cleaning, examining, lubricating and properly reassembling a new pistol can be an important first step over-looked by new owners/users.

That's the biggest cause of problems in most semi's

It only takes a tiny chip of lead, brass, or "crud" in the wrong place to keep things from working properly

[weldonjr2001]

Hmmmm. I have the M&P .40, M&P .40 Compact, and Shield .40. Never have had a failure to do anything, feed, fire, or extract.

With mild range ammo and hot 155 grain JHPs.

Uber reliable so far.

Is this extraction problem really so wide spread?

[tozir]

I asked this question on another forum too, and they were mainly saying it needs to be shot more. Basically a break in period. But, one guy said his shield 40 had a few FTEs when it was new (within the first 200 rounds I think he said), but after that initial cluster, he hasn't had any FTEs. So it MIGHT be a shield thing.
But I'll definitely clean and shoot it more before I make my final judgement on its reliability.

[TunnelRat]

But, one guy said his shield 40 had a few FTEs when it was new (within the first 200 rounds I think he said), but after that initial cluster, he hasn't had any FTEs. So it MIGHT be a shield thing.

By FTE did he mean failure to extract or failure to eject? A few weak ejections can be pretty standard right out of the box.

[tozir]

Sorry. Failure to extracts.

[agent109]

What ammo are you using?

[fastbolt]

If someone isn't what you might call a very experienced pistol shooter, and their experience is mostly limited to shooting a full-size 9mm pistol ... it certainly wouldn't be surprising to learn that being handed a smaller and lighter pistol, with a shorter & faster slide travel, chambered in the harder recoiling .40 S&W, might result in a grip-related stoppage (either failure to feed, extract of eject).

Sometimes it might be possible that a newer shooter might require more of a "break-in" to properly using a particular pistol & caliber combination than the gun, itself, requires a "break-in".

[Snyper]

But the slide locked back, the empty casing was still in the chamber, and I dont believe it attempted to load a new round, since it wasn't jammed up.
The casing was left in the chamber and the slide locked back.

If the slide locked with rounds still in the magazine, you have more than one problem