What would you do?

yakfish · April 1, 2009, 01:24 PM

I'm an independent contractor and I deliver drugs to nursing homes 6 nights a week. My route is about 320 miles long and it takes all night. the company that I'm contracted with says, " no firearms are aloud to be with me in the car while I'm driving an my route." on an average night I am carrying serveral thousand dollars worth of medication and I would feel better if a was able to carry consealed for SD. Now all of the homes have signs sayiing no firearms aloud inside so should I have something with me in the car or should I just abide by the company "rules"? as an idependant contractor I feel like I should be aloud to have whatever I want in MY OWN CAR but if I am found to be carrying I could loose my job. But the chances of someone looking in my car are slim to none. So what would you do?

Brian Pfleuger · April 1, 2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

So what would you do?

You agreed to follow company rules when you took the job. It is essentially this:
Them: "Hey, I'll give you $X if you do this list of things"
You: "Ok. I'll do that"
You (later on)"Well, I don't like this rule so I'm not going to follow it."

Follow the rules. If you don't like the rules then get a new job.

What if they decided that they weren't going to abide by the mutual employment agreement? Like they suddenly decide to pay you half of what they originally said? You'd be pretty mad. You expect them to hold their side of the agreement, you should hold up your end.

hogdogs · April 1, 2009, 01:34 PM

I live by the creed... "I was lookin' for a job when I found this one"...
That said I would carry in my ride but would really feel safer if armed 'tween the car and the door to the building... But arrest is imminent in many areas for violating the rules posted on the signage.
Brent

hogdogs · April 1, 2009, 01:35 PM

Petes-a-killa

, he plainly stated "Nursing Home" not individual residence...
Brent

csmsss · April 1, 2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

That's pretty amazing. ALL of the homes have "No Guns" signs? I've never seen an individual residence with a "No Guns" sign. Ever.

He doesn't deliver to individual residences or homes - he delivers to nursing homes.

Tennessee Gentleman · April 1, 2009, 01:43 PM

I would get a new job.

yakfish · April 1, 2009, 01:50 PM

I was not informed about the rule until a couple moths ago when one of the other drivers mentioned he was carring a weapon on his run and was shortly after let go.

and no I don't deliver to private residences, they are nursing homes.

I can't get another job. This one pays too well!!

Tennessee Gentleman · April 1, 2009, 01:53 PM

Need to choose between lifestyle and life.

Brian Pfleuger · April 1, 2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

I can't get another job. This one pays too well!!

Then your choice is between money and integrity. If you continue to drive, knowing the rules, and carry anyway then you are a dishonest person. If your reason is money then you're trading your integrity for cash.

yakfish · April 1, 2009, 02:00 PM

well since learning of the rule I have not carried a weapon with me.

skydiver3346 · April 1, 2009, 02:01 PM

Hmmmm, lets see now. You are probably delivering class II and III narcotics and other potentially "desirable drugs" that the bad guys would like to have. You are doing this all night long? Your company says no firearms in you car or on your person? NOT GOOD...(for you that is). I realize that you must have a job and we all need the money to live,(but that to me, is a recipie for disaster for you someday). I recently retired from the medical sales industry myself (after 30 years) and worked in most all the skilled nursing homes in north Florida area. There are some bad things going on and around in these nursing homes that I became aware of. I DID carry a Glock 19 in my glove compartment of my vehicle (just in case). When coming out of some of these nursing homes, I personally have had strangers come up to me and ask me what I was carrying in my briefcase..... I looked them straght in the face and said loudly, "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS"... It took them back a bit but I didn't care as they were the ones that started this. Later on, I felt it was safer to carry (at least in my car), especially at dark. My company has never personally told me not to carry or keep in my car (although it is a pretty well known fact that they don't want you to). Better safe than sorry I say, but to each his own. I guess the bottom line is you will have to endure this "situation" until either you find another job (or God forbid, you have a run in with some bad guys one night and the decision will be made for you). I sure hope not and best of luck to you whatever you decide.

Brian Pfleuger · April 1, 2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

well since learning of the rule I have not carried a weapon with me.

Good man.

You should most certainly be allowed to carry but your integrity is who you are. Try to get the rule changed, if there is no hope then try really hard to find another job. Be the best employee you can, so it hurts them when you leave, and make sure they know WHY you are leaving. Maybe they'll reconsider.

Tennessee Gentleman · April 1, 2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peetzakilla

Then your choice is between money and integrity.

Peetza, For the record and I have debated this before with many others, I feel that a company that creates such a rule and removes your right to protect yourself and makes no effort to then provide you reasonable protection are themselves immoral.

A lot of companies do this to CYA at the expense of the employee and it is wrong. Just as wrong IMO as someone breaking their work rules.

In this case, I think the poster can work elsewhere, but as I have pointed out before, if this were a battered female who had a stalking ex after her I might think otherwise.

BTW I think Pizza Hut was immoral when they fired that guy who used his firearm in self defense and I won't buy their pizza's anymore since they forced the guy to go into bad neighborhoods without protection and knew of the risks he faced.

Again, when left with no option as the battered woman example then the rule would be immoral and disobeying it might get you fired but would not necessarily make you dishonest IMO.

Brian Pfleuger · April 1, 2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Again, when left with no option as the battered woman example then the rule would be immoral and disobeying it might get you fired but would not necessarily make you dishonest IMO.

Disobeying it may not be immoral but disobeying it while saying that you obey it is lying. If management is informed that you do not intend to follow the rule and they allow you to keep working then fine. If you are aware of the rule and agree to follow it, either implicitly or explicitly, then you are in the wrong.

Now, the signs on the nursing homes may or may not be different. In some areas those signs carry no legal weight and I'd ignore them. There is no agreement, since you are not employed directly by those homes. If those signs are legally enforceable then you would be breaking the law by entering, another no-no.

Tennessee Gentleman · April 1, 2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peetzakilla

If you are aware of the rule and agree to follow it, either implicitly or explicitly, then you are in the wrong.

We disagree. If the rule is immoral then it cannot be dishonest to disobey it. Lots of historical examples of people who lied to authority in order to protect those or themselves from immoral law. That is an individual decision and I do not think it would be necessary to inform the employer. I would probably say nothing. Doesn't mean I can't face punishment, many have before but it doesn't make me dishonest. Everything that is legal is not always moral (see AIG) and sometimes things that are illegal are moral. Up to the individual. But that's just me.

Delta1067 · April 1, 2009, 03:51 PM

It appears that most everyone is saying that you should not carry. Well I disagree--IF you have a concealed carry permit. The choice is simple for me. Should you choose keeping your job or should you choose to win a deadly force encounter. I would choose to win a deadly force encounter everytime and if I was fired then so be it. At least I would be alive to find another job instead of dead. Good Luck.

KLRANGL · April 1, 2009, 04:00 PM

Take morality out of it for a minute... would you be able to live with the consequences? Most people don't carry concealed illegally because they couldn't live with the consequences (jail). Your consequence is getting fired... If you can live with the possibility of getting fired, then by all means go for it.

Now take that one step further. Think of the odds of you getting into a deadly force encounter and the resulting consequence (living/dying)... Then think of the odds of you getting caught carrying on the job and the resulting consequence (staying employed/being fired). If, to you, the small chance of dying outweighs the more likely chance of you getting fired, then by all means carry.
Or ideally find a new job, but that is harder done than said...

onthejon55 · April 1, 2009, 04:10 PM

How often does the company you work for search your vehicle? Do they also search bags you carry with you on your route? If not then i personally would carry and just not mention it to anyone. That's the whole idea behind concealed carry anyway right?

skydiver3346 · April 1, 2009, 09:22 PM

Ditto what he said when it comes down to it. The only reason these companies won't let you carry a gun on your person or even in your vehicle is to protect their "deep pocket" butts from litigation. Bottom line is, they could care less about your safety over their "Bottom Line".......... Yes, I too believe it is immoral for someone to tell you that you can't defend yourself. Remember this: Among reports from interviews of prision inmates as to what they fear the most, they always admit that it is the "The Armed Citizen" who is willing to protect himself/herself and their property.

SMiller · April 1, 2009, 09:37 PM

Buddy if you need that gun the last thing in the world you will be thinking of is your job! Carry carry carry! It's your life, keep in mind your car is a 3000lbs bullet, use it to get out of dodge or drive over whatever would be in front of you. Your work will never know you have a gun in your car, nor is it there buisness...

Re4mer · April 1, 2009, 10:00 PM

I always differentiate between company rules and the real law. If I personally was driving the car I would keep my gun on me and leave it in a car safe when going into the buildings to drop of the supplies. In your own car nobody will know, even if you get pulled over you are fine as long as CCW's are legal in the state you are driving in.

Rich Miranda · April 1, 2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Need to choose between lifestyle and life.

Lots of thugs and miscreants could use this sage advice.

As for keeping a gun, I would follow the rules or get a new job. It's a tough choice given that it pays well, but it's the current dilemma.

cracked91 · April 1, 2009, 10:09 PM

Thats doesnt make sense. Noone is going to try to rob you while you are in a locked car, and if they do they will have to have a gun, and it will be on you first. So just having a gun in the glove compartment is pretty much useless. The most dangerous situation your gonna get yourself into is out of your car moving the drugs into the home. If it were me I would just get my CCW and break the rules. Id rather be fired than dead, because there are a ton of people out there who would kill over 1000 dollars

BigDaddy · April 1, 2009, 10:15 PM

+1 Peetza

If you have to break a rule to safely do your job, you need to find another job.

If you have a family that depends on your income, you can't afford to be fired for breaking the rules.

just a thought,
--Dave

SW1911CT · April 1, 2009, 10:19 PM

I know this is against the grain but to be honest with you I would carry and keep it low key. If it's in a good ccw holster no one would know anyway.

In college I worked for a major convenience store chain that was very clear that you could not be armed while working. I ccw'd every single night that I worked for about 8 months. I almost always had someone there working with me and when I graduated and was quitting to move out of that town I asked the two people I regularly worked with if they had ever noticed. They both said no but they were glad I had been. I was glad too!

April 1, 2009, 01:24 PM	#1
yakfish Member Join Date: February 4, 2008 Posts: 41	What would you do? I'm an independent contractor and I deliver drugs to nursing homes 6 nights a week. My route is about 320 miles long and it takes all night. the company that I'm contracted with says, " no firearms are aloud to be with me in the car while I'm driving an my route." on an average night I am carrying serveral thousand dollars worth of medication and I would feel better if a was able to carry consealed for SD. Now all of the homes have signs sayiing no firearms aloud inside so should I have something with me in the car or should I just abide by the company "rules"? as an idependant contractor I feel like I should be aloud to have whatever I want in MY OWN CAR but if I am found to be carrying I could loose my job. But the chances of someone looking in my car are slim to none. So what would you do?

April 1, 2009, 01:35 PM	#4
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Petes-a-killa, he plainly stated "Nursing Home" not individual residence... Brent

April 1, 2009, 01:43 PM	#6
Tennessee Gentleman Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,775	I would get a new job. __________________ "God and the Soldier we adore, in time of trouble but not before. When the danger's past and the wrong been righted, God is forgotten and the Soldier slighted." Anonymous Soldier.

April 1, 2009, 01:53 PM	#8
Tennessee Gentleman Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,775	Need to choose between lifestyle and life. __________________ "God and the Soldier we adore, in time of trouble but not before. When the danger's past and the wrong been righted, God is forgotten and the Soldier slighted." Anonymous Soldier.

April 1, 2009, 02:01 PM	#11
skydiver3346 Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,222	No gun in your car or on your person? Hmmmm, lets see now. You are probably delivering class II and III narcotics and other potentially "desirable drugs" that the bad guys would like to have. You are doing this all night long? Your company says no firearms in you car or on your person? NOT GOOD...(for you that is). I realize that you must have a job and we all need the money to live,(but that to me, is a recipie for disaster for you someday). I recently retired from the medical sales industry myself (after 30 years) and worked in most all the skilled nursing homes in north Florida area. There are some bad things going on and around in these nursing homes that I became aware of. I DID carry a Glock 19 in my glove compartment of my vehicle (just in case). When coming out of some of these nursing homes, I personally have had strangers come up to me and ask me what I was carrying in my briefcase..... I looked them straght in the face and said loudly, "NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS"... It took them back a bit but I didn't care as they were the ones that started this. Later on, I felt it was safer to carry (at least in my car), especially at dark. My company has never personally told me not to carry or keep in my car (although it is a pretty well known fact that they don't want you to). Better safe than sorry I say, but to each his own. I guess the bottom line is you will have to endure this "situation" until either you find another job (or God forbid, you have a run in with some bad guys one night and the decision will be made for you). I sure hope not and best of luck to you whatever you decide.

April 1, 2009, 01:34 PM	#3
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I live by the creed... "I was lookin' for a job when I found this one"... That said I would carry in my ride but would really feel safer if armed 'tween the car and the door to the building... But arrest is imminent in many areas for violating the rules posted on the signage. Brent

April 1, 2009, 01:50 PM	#7
yakfish Member Join Date: February 4, 2008 Posts: 41	I was not informed about the rule until a couple moths ago when one of the other drivers mentioned he was carring a weapon on his run and was shortly after let go. and no I don't deliver to private residences, they are nursing homes. I can't get another job. This one pays too well!!

April 1, 2009, 02:00 PM	#10
yakfish Member Join Date: February 4, 2008 Posts: 41	well since learning of the rule I have not carried a weapon with me.

April 1, 2009, 03:51 PM	#16
Delta1067 Member Join Date: December 8, 2008 Posts: 20	It appears that most everyone is saying that you should not carry. Well I disagree--IF you have a concealed carry permit. The choice is simple for me. Should you choose keeping your job or should you choose to win a deadly force encounter. I would choose to win a deadly force encounter everytime and if I was fired then so be it. At least I would be alive to find another job instead of dead. Good Luck.

April 1, 2009, 04:00 PM	#17
KLRANGL Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 958	Take morality out of it for a minute... would you be able to live with the consequences? Most people don't carry concealed illegally because they couldn't live with the consequences (jail). Your consequence is getting fired... If you can live with the possibility of getting fired, then by all means go for it. Now take that one step further. Think of the odds of you getting into a deadly force encounter and the resulting consequence (living/dying)... Then think of the odds of you getting caught carrying on the job and the resulting consequence (staying employed/being fired). If, to you, the small chance of dying outweighs the more likely chance of you getting fired, then by all means carry. Or ideally find a new job, but that is harder done than said... __________________ And it's Killer Angel... as in the book

April 1, 2009, 04:10 PM	#18
onthejon55 Junior member Join Date: October 23, 2008 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 411	How often does the company you work for search your vehicle? Do they also search bags you carry with you on your route? If not then i personally would carry and just not mention it to anyone. That's the whole idea behind concealed carry anyway right?

April 1, 2009, 09:22 PM	#19
skydiver3346 Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,222	Tennessee Gentleman said it best: Ditto what he said when it comes down to it. The only reason these companies won't let you carry a gun on your person or even in your vehicle is to protect their "deep pocket" butts from litigation. Bottom line is, they could care less about your safety over their "Bottom Line".......... Yes, I too believe it is immoral for someone to tell you that you can't defend yourself. Remember this: Among reports from interviews of prision inmates as to what they fear the most, they always admit that it is the "The Armed Citizen" who is willing to protect himself/herself and their property.

April 1, 2009, 09:37 PM	#20
SMiller Member Join Date: January 29, 2007 Posts: 71	Buddy if you need that gun the last thing in the world you will be thinking of is your job! Carry carry carry! It's your life, keep in mind your car is a 3000lbs bullet, use it to get out of dodge or drive over whatever would be in front of you. Your work will never know you have a gun in your car, nor is it there buisness...

April 1, 2009, 10:00 PM	#21
Re4mer Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2008 Posts: 240	I always differentiate between company rules and the real law. If I personally was driving the car I would keep my gun on me and leave it in a car safe when going into the buildings to drop of the supplies. In your own car nobody will know, even if you get pulled over you are fine as long as CCW's are legal in the state you are driving in.

April 1, 2009, 10:09 PM	#23
cracked91 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 385	Thats doesnt make sense. Noone is going to try to rob you while you are in a locked car, and if they do they will have to have a gun, and it will be on you first. So just having a gun in the glove compartment is pretty much useless. The most dangerous situation your gonna get yourself into is out of your car moving the drugs into the home. If it were me I would just get my CCW and break the rules. Id rather be fired than dead, because there are a ton of people out there who would kill over 1000 dollars

April 1, 2009, 10:15 PM	#24
BigDaddy Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 166	+1 Peetza If you have to break a rule to safely do your job, you need to find another job. If you have a family that depends on your income, you can't afford to be fired for breaking the rules. just a thought, --Dave __________________ Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he will sit on a boat and drink beer all day. Last edited by BigDaddy; April 1, 2009 at 10:22 PM.

April 1, 2009, 10:19 PM	#25
SW1911CT Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: Raleigh Posts: 90	I know this is against the grain but to be honest with you I would carry and keep it low key. If it's in a good ccw holster no one would know anyway. In college I worked for a major convenience store chain that was very clear that you could not be armed while working. I ccw'd every single night that I worked for about 8 months. I almost always had someone there working with me and when I graduated and was quitting to move out of that town I asked the two people I regularly worked with if they had ever noticed. They both said no but they were glad I had been. I was glad too!