Story of Three Muzzleloaders.

[Wild Bill Bucks]

I bought my two sons, along with myself, three new Omega's, last year, and we sighted them in with EXACTLY the same stuff. 777 loose powder, Winchester 777 primers, 240 grain hollow points by Hornady, and Thompson Black Maxi sabots.

All three rifles were sighted in 1" high at 50 yards, and all three rifles would shoot groups touching each other.

That being said, I store my powder in a seal a meal bag, with one of those little moisture bags, I steal from my vitamin bottles, and suck the air out when I store it for the year. I do the same thing with any unused primers, and sabots. My two sons, just put theirs in a box in the closet. They are in a cool dark area of the house where their is no moisture, but they are not vacum sealed.

Last week we all got together, and went to the range, and neither of them could put together a three shot group that was better than 2" at 50 yards.

My first three shots were just as tight as they were last year, so I put my rifle up for the rest of the day. The two boys shot SEVERAL more groups but never got their rifles to shoot any better than when they started.

I would not let them readjust their sights because the rifles shot so good the year before, and I first thought they just weren't having a good day. As time went on through the day, I had the thought that it might have somethin to do with their loads, so I made them clean up, and use my powder and primers.

With no other changes than just my powder and sabot and primer combination, their two rifles went back to groups that were touching each other again.

The reason I posted this, is that I have heard several people tell me from one year to the next that their rifle changes POI almost every year. I think that if you are leaving your powder after opening, and your primers after opening, that no matter how well you store it in a cabinet, that it will loose a little power as the year goes on. I don't know exactly what happens to it, but I thought it was worth mentioning to everyone.

[armedandsafe]

It is interesting that the groups opened up. I can see the POI changing, but would think the consistency would not change that much. Hmmmmm

Thanks

Pops

[Joe Martin]

It is my understanding that the, 777, Pyrodex, and replica powders will break down over time. Perhaps the way your powder was stored caused less of a break down in the chemicals?

Real black powder such as Goex doesn't really break down, but it will settle out over a period of time. To bring it back one merely rotates the can several times slowly allowing the finer grains to work themselve back through the powder in the can. I don't know if this same thing can be done with the, 777, or Pyrodex? It might be worth a try.

[45Marlin carbine]

I've read some that Pyro will breal down over time but I haven't had that happen. BP isn't affected at all as far as I know, I was given a can of Goex that was at least 15 years old and it shoot good.

[arcticap]

Wild Bill Bucks, I commend you for the effort, but I'm wondering if you seal the powder up with or without the original plastic container?
I think that as good and powerful as 777 is, that it's usually a more erratic powder in general.
Also, depending on the size of the powder charges being loaded, large powder charges of 777 and the higher velocity that it reaches doesn't always promote better accuracy either.
And the same can be said for plastic sabots. I've always wondered about some sabot designs not releasing from the bullet with good consistency. If the sabot remains attached too long, then the trajectory could be affected.
So what seems to be an issue of powder degradation, may be due to other issues.
And then the human factor of marksmanship can always be a factor.
Are the rifles outfitted with scopes?
I've never been one to worry about group size too much, especially with hunting loads, since I have enough trouble holding and shooting those heavier loads offhand. And I don't use the heavier kicking 777 for hunting either, lately I've been using the predecessor of American Pioneer Powder fffg that's many years old.
They say APP is weaker, but there's still noticiable muzzle rise at ignition and plenty of felt recoil.
I try to keep the lid on the containers as much as possible, and haven't noticed any powder problems.
BTW, are you using the 777 fffg or other granulation?

[Wild Bill Bucks]

articap,

We all sighted our rifles in with 90 grains of 777. I don't worry to much about group size for hunting (Within reason) but you know how it is at the range, you want to see how tight you can get them. Both my boys shoot VERY well, and I was watching them pretty close for signs of flinching. Both of them are over 240lbs (I only weigh around 160 lbs, and highly suspect that they probably belong to the Milk Man)and I didn't notice any kind of problems with their form. I just thought it was strange that as soon as I started making them load from my stuff, that their shots were immediatley tighter.

I buy my sabots and bullets in bulk, and store them seperatley in a vacum sealed bag. I'm very careful to always replace the lid on my powder as soon as I'm done making up loads, and I vacum seal it inside a bag as well.

This has been monsoon season here in Oklahoma this year and I suspect their powder has probably gathered a little moisture. They are both going to buy some new powder this week, and I will let you guys know if it makes any real difference after this week end.

PS, Yes they all have 3 to 9 power Burris scopes on them (New)