S&W question

[ARaces23]

Long time lurker, finally jumping in. I've had/fired and not been pleased with the S&W Sigma. I'm now looking at the M&P, love how it fits my hand. Have a pretty good deal locally, just wanted to get ideas on the comparison. Thanks in advance.
Chris
Here's the deal, btw: http://www.ozarksportsman.com/carry-...r-p-41725.html

[tahunua001]

M&Ps are good guns but they need some work out of the box. they are plenty reliable and have good ergos(for me anyway) but the triggers are really sloppy on them and it's killer to try and shoot accurately.

dropping in an APEX trigger kit really improves the shooting experience and it's fairly simple to do yourself from what I've heard. the same gripes you had with the sigma will probably carry over to the M&P the best option would be to rent one before you buy one.

[RC20]

I have dry fired Sigma and MP. Sigma had a better trigger! Neither was good. Sigma feels cheap and tack, the MP a lot more solid, but still that awful trigger.

If you want a good trigger, you need to look at Sig, HK, Barreta in a DA/SA (the SA is pretty good, not a 1911 but good).

DA is like a revolver, but you can cock the gun if you want.

They all have DE-cockers unlike the 1911 so you can safe it

All have have various levers and approaches to them.

Simplest is Sig with the SP2022, price with it is a bargain and it has no safety (treat it like a revolver). Trigger is as good as they come without spending money to make it better (MP and Glock which then negate the safety aspect they tout).

Sig on that model went to a single lever for slide hold and disassembly , works very well and a clean left side.

the other lever is the de-cocker. Not as nice as the HK with the button on the slide but works fine (I have big hands and I still have to move the gun to activate it, but only a bit and not a big deal and can keep it pointed down range fine.

MP has good sights, matches the Sigs, but for the Sig price you can get all of that without the Apex trigger mod (call it $450 for an SP2022 with night sights and a single magazine, )

[pturner67]

the M&P is a great weapon...ok, the trigger isn't perfect out of the box but whatever...try firing one...you'll love it

[tjhands]

The M&P is a much better all-around gun than the Sigma. And you don't HAVE to do anything to it, like some people here are saying. For a defensive gun, it's good right out of the box.

[g.willikers]

Hmm, it must be the day the guns are built or something.
The M&Ps that I've tried had pretty good triggers.
Better than most other striker fired pistols.
The takeup was less and reset was short, fairly smooth and without much slop.
And they were the softest shooting 9mms, to boot.
Try them before rejecting them.

[jeepman4804]

The trigger on the M&P is far better than a Sigma. Have owned and fired both. The M&P trigger is a little gritty out of the box, but after about 500 rounds it smooths up very nicely. Get one and enjoy it, I now own 4... I have a few much nicer firearms, but they are still my go to guns.

[Mrgunsngear]

I've owned both and the M&P is far better overall. I don't know how you can say the sigma has a better trigger ! The M&Ps trigger isn't great but it's better than the sigma IMO... A little polishing of the sear and trigger bar make a huge improvement on the trigger. The pull stays around 6 pounds but all the grit will be gone and the crispness will be much improved.

Both guns are extremely reliable. Extremely. A good compromise is the SD. I have that gun and the trigger is probably in between the M&P and Sigma. It has the same finish as the M&Ps and comes with a night sight from the factory. The street price will only run you about $30-50 more than the sigma and it's a big improvement in fit/finish.

But, the most important factor in dealing with guns is reliability IMO. You won't go wrong either way.

[pilpens]

I had an M&P. Sold it because of the trigger. It was clean but just did not like how it broke with long over-travel. I can't say exactly what it is, just did not like the trigger feel. I have other pistols with better triggers. So selling was a wiser option for me than spending more to fix.

What is the pistol primarily for? range? HD? CC?
======================
You may want to look at the Walther PPQ or the AS - nice triggers out of the box.

[carguychris]

The trigger on the M&P is far better than a Sigma. Have owned and fired both. The M&P trigger is a little gritty out of the box, but after about 500 rounds it smooths up very nicely.

+1. FWIW conventional wisdom on the Interwebz is that the M&P trigger sucks rocks, but I disagree. IMHO it gets substantially better with use and is perfectly adequate for a combat handgun. I prefer a 6+ lb trigger on a defensive firearm.

Target shooters may dislike it because it's hard to achieve those interlocking holes @ 15-25yds, but that's not really the M&P's strong suit; its strength is its ability to put 5-6 rounds into a pie-plate sized area inside 15 yds within ~3 seconds, and it absolutely excels at this.

[Mrgunsngear]

^^^Agreed. The M&P is designed for 'military and police' use and isn't a designated target platform. It's awesome at doing what it was intended to do...


Get one, you know you want to!



BTW...I'd check out jetguns for prices. They usually have great M&P prices.

[tahunua001]

just looked at the link. $565+shipping+FFL is way too much for an M&P. your local gun stores could probably get you one for $520 without the extra fees involved with online purchases.

[ARaces23]

Mainly for range/HD. I appreciate all this feedback too. The M&P fits my hand & like the angle better than the Sig. I know the Sig is great, but how much more do you pay for this 3 letters? Not sure it's worth it. The link, btw, is a range & carry kit. Box, 3 mags, holster, mag pouch; and it's local, so no shipping or FFL issues. That's the $565 price tag for the whole kit & caboodle.

[tahunua001]

Mainly for range/HD. I appreciate all this feedback too. The M&P fits my hand & like the angle better than the Sig. I know the Sig is great, but how much more do you pay for this 3 letters? Not sure it's worth it. The link, btw, is a range & carry kit. Box, 3 mags, holster, mag pouch; and it's local, so no shipping or FFL issues. That's the $565 price tag for the whole kit & caboodle.

ok if it's local and it feels good in your hand then you already have half the battle over with. it's a decent deal.

[pilpens]

I strongly recommend a Walther P99 in 9mm over the S&W M&P.
Walther cost more but it is a better pistol in my opinion. My 1st Gen P99 DA/SA which is the same as the AS model, has been trouble free. It is my primary CC pistol. It shoots as accurate as any other (Sig, HK, etc).
The PPQ model has a Glock-like trigger and the AS has a DA/SA Trigger + Decocker. Triggers on both models are the best.
============

[ARaces23]

This will be a .40. Already have 2 9mm, & a .45. Thanks guys, was at store today, but I think I increased my decision by 1. I liked the FNX 40 as well. Have some range time booked to try 2/3. We'll see.

[tahunua001]

if it's between the 2 I would recommend the FNX over the M&P hands down and I even hate DA/SA. just keep in mind that the FNX has a break in period

[carguychris]

I strongly recommend a Walther P99 in 9mm over the S&W M&P.
Walther cost more but it is a better pistol in my opinion.

+1. Although I like the M&P very much, I'll concede that the P99/PPQ are slightly superior; however, the cost difference is substantial, particularly if spare mags are factored in. The M&P "Range & Carry Kit" with 3 mags, a holster, a mag holder, and an UpLula costs about the same as a basic P99 with 1 mag, and mags for the P99 retail for ~$10-$15 higher than M&P mags.

[dean1818]

M&Ps are a great pistol

I like my 45 c


The trigger does smooth a bit with some dry firing.......

(so i am told........ I did the DIY trigger job VERY easy

[dyl]

I think that's a good deal too with mags being somewhere around $25 bucks each if I remember.

When I got my M&P it was plenty accurate out of the box. The gritty take-up of the trigger doesn't affect the actual trigger break, and the the break is crisp. It may not feel good to the finger to feel grit but that doesn't change the point of impact. I too got it because of how good it felt in my hand and because S&W takes care of their customers in my experience.

(oh by the way, that gritty uptake CAN be fixed, it's the striker block which you can polish/round yourself or look into APEX parts and all grittiness is gone forever)

I've looked at Sigma "trigger fixes" and there doesn't seem to be the variety of things you can do to a Sigma to improve the trigger. There were people removing 2 -3 springs saying they don't need them, it doesn't do anything! There seems to be much more available for enhancing an M&P with Apex Tactical parts. Heck you can even get yourself a new drop-in trigger. But Apex's Duty Carry Action Enhancement Kit or Forward Set Sear aren't really NECESSARY.

And if you choose not to go that route there is the Burwell Trigger Job (google it and download it) for a DIY action job. I did a partial one of simply smoothing out some contacting surfaces with a rouge cloth (just rubbed it with the cloth.. not too difficult) and it lowered the trigger pull weight. I may get the DCAEK someday but i'm not in a hurry.

With what I read about the Sigma's 10 pound trigger pull (not exaggerating) I do think the M&P's trigger is better.

[MrGreen]

The M&P was my first 9mm gun and it is still my favorite for shooting. It comes down to personal choice but I have not talked to anyone who didn't like the M&P.

[James K]

I own a Sigma .40 and have fired (but did not buy) a 9mm M&P. I liked the M&P better. But in fairness, some folks compare the triggers to something like a match tuned 1911, and that is just not valid. Aside from the difference in purpose, it would be better to compare the M&P trigger to that of the Glock or other striker fired pistol, not to a custom built 1911. One poster a while back came down hard on the M&P pistol because the trigger was not as good as the SA on his K-38. Talk about apples and oranges!

Jim

[ARaces23]

Okay, that being said, before I head to range tomorrow, in your opinion, which is better for overall safety? Both being reliable, trusted, etc. Is the DA/SA (which I've fired in my father's Ber. 92) or the SA safer long haul; Kids, misfires, jams, considered?

[Mrgunsngear]

I think it's just a matter of preference. Both work as intended (i.e. they prevent the gun from being fired if safety is activated...)

Here's the same deal for a little less with free shipping:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/70012

[tahunua001]

I prefer the uniformity of a striker fired gun over a DA/SA just because you have an extra step of cocking the hammer if you want the same trigger pull every time. DA/SA is no more safe than a DAO gun with a manual safety lever.