Custom vs Factory & barrel choices.....??

Outdoorsman · February 10, 2011, 09:43 PM

I'm considering building a custom rifle vs buying a Savage model 12 LRPV varminter. 22-250 is the starting point for the chambering of this gun, but Swift & Cheetah are also of strong interest to me. Not interested in larger bores as I have that covered, but want a long ranger .22 for a area where chances of a bullets skipping worry me. Shots can range out to 600+yds on chucks, fox & yotes.

This led me to looking at all the different barrel makers offerings. Been doing that for several weeks now.

I like the idea of the Broughton 5C barrels as it makes sense they should clean a bit easier & Broughton offers a VERY heavy 28" barrel that tapers to .940".....

I also like the Krieger barrels due to the fact you can get the barrel fitted to the action & I could get a 1/8.5" twist.

Pac Nor offers 3 land & grove configuration which is said to wear longer & they also offer fitting of the barrel to the action. The wide selection of wildcat chamberings also is a temptation for me.....22-243 perhaps?

Walther offers barrels made of a tougher LW50 stainless steel.

To bad nobody offers a 3 land and groove canted land barrel made of LW50 steel that would also fit the barrel to the action.

If I go the custom route the action to build it on will be a Savage target 12 with the left port.

If factory the same action with a 1/9 twist 22-250 barrel.

So I'm looking for your input guys, which is the better way to go? Is the custom rig worth the extra $$$??

Art Eatman · February 11, 2011, 05:16 PM

Since it's happened that two-groove '03 Springfield barrels can be quite accurate, I see no objection to a three-groove. I don't quite follow the "wear" issue, since burning of the first quarter-inch or so of the throat of a barrel is where accuracy problems begin. The hotter the cartridge, the faster the burning.

Even something like the Cheetah is going to see degradation in the trajectory when past 400 to 500 yards. That's where exact knowledge of the distance becomes very important--which is why folks buy laser range-finders. The next big problem is wind drift, and that's seriously big.

My own experiences with the Swift and the .22-250 have me figuring that they'd be my own choice if I were to build a dedicated 22-caliber varmint rifle.

precision_shooter · February 11, 2011, 05:52 PM

For me, I would get the Savage LRPV, but in .204 Ruger instead of 22-250...

I actually almost bought one on sale a few weeks ago, but the Model 10 FCP in .308 spoke to me more so that's what went home with me.

I still want a 12 LRPV dual port in .204. I think it's next on my list...

603Country · February 11, 2011, 07:52 PM

I have a Ruger 77V that I had rebarreled with a Douglas barrel. It's in 220 Swift, and it will really shoot. I had the gun accurized when the barrel was changed out. It's capable of .25 inch groups if I'm having a good day. That caliber or the 22-250 are both terrific, and if you're going custom, the 22-250 Ackley Improved is equal to the Swift in velocity. Another consideration for varmint and deer use would be the 243 Ackley Improved. Any of those would make you very happy on long distance shots. You'll need to be a handloader for any of those but the 22-250. The factory 220 Swift loads are not very hot these days.

HiBC · February 12, 2011, 02:39 PM

Think about what bullet you will shoot.To dispatch critters in humane fashion,
not all of the heavier bullets are suitable.A 75 gr A-max would likely work,as may some Bergers.The true varmint bullets only go up to about 60 gr,that I have found.
At the ranges you are considering,BC is a factor

hooligan1 · February 12, 2011, 07:00 PM

My brother built one on a Mark V CZ action. It's deadly accurate but still has an older scope on it,(I'm trying to trade him out of it, as we speak, and of course I'll let you all know the outcome) having said that it's fast, accurate, fun to shoot, and handles very well in the field and looks very nice.

22-250 BTW Factory barrel!

Outdoorsman · February 13, 2011, 01:50 AM

Art Eatman,

"I don't quite follow the "wear" issue, since burning of the first quarter-inch or so of the throat of a barrel is where accuracy problems begin. The hotter the cartridge, the faster the burning."

http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilj...d%206%20Groove

Read this where 3 vs 6 groove barrels are discussed.

Lilja is another barrel to consider, but as I don't know of a smith to do the work, I'm looking more to Kreiger & Pac Nor so far...

Outdoorsman · February 13, 2011, 02:31 AM

HiBC,

"Think about what bullet you will shoot.To dispatch critters in humane fashion,
not all of the heavier bullets are suitable.A 75 gr A-max would likely work,as may some Bergers.The true varmint bullets only go up to about 60 gr,that I have found.
At the ranges you are considering,BC is a factor"

I agree with the need for good BC for out beyond 400.

And the Amax 75 is what I hope to use for the real long shooting. Would also like to try the 65gr. gameking.

Thanks for the ideas guys, keep them come'n.

Outdoorsman · February 13, 2011, 03:28 AM

Hi 603,

I got into handloading almost 40 yr. ago, so that does not bother me.

Not really interested in the AI route if I go custom as the fire forming takes away a bit of barrel life & time. If I build a Cheetah / 22-243 it's got to be the Mark II that uses the standard shoulder angle. All I'd need do then is neck down the normal 243 cases. Cost of those dies kinda bites though, will boost the overall cost of going with a all out custom. But would sure be a fun one to shoot I think.

I've shot .222 & 22-250 for years, but both are sporter weight barrels. My dad & I used to hunt fox with them, one to track and the other guy circle ahead. Back before the yotes came and drove out a lot of the fox...in the 70's.

From what I've read the 22-243 should give at least 250fps more than the 22-250 shoot'n the big 75 gr. loads & the Swift about 80-100 fps. Does this sound about right to you guys?

In spite of all the years I've shot 22-250 with success, I'm thinking I'd like to go a bit bigger as long as I'm going for a heavy barreled longer range capable rifle. Wish the gun companies offer a better selection of Swift rifles. A LRPV Savage in the Swift would about fit the bill.

Art Eatman · February 13, 2011, 10:27 AM

The Lilja comment about wider lands resisting throat erosion better was an interesting find...

603Country · February 13, 2011, 02:08 PM

Outdoorsman,

If it was me, I'd go with a custom gun (since it's easy for me to spend your money). If you're gonna shoot coyotes at up to 600 yards, accuracy is going to have to be absolutely top of the line. As for the caliber, 22's are not as resistant to wind drift as a 24 caliber, so maybe the 243 AI or 6mmAI would indeed be better choices, even though there's the fire forming and barrel wear to deal with. And your original posting mentioned that you were looking at barrel choices, so you're already thinking about what's going to handle lots of powder and hopefully not foul too quickly. When you finish deciding, please tell us what you chose. I'm very interested in hearing what you go with, and your reasoning. And what scope are you going to use?

Outdoorsman · February 13, 2011, 06:50 PM

Hi 603,

If cost were not a big part of deciding, I'd be ordering up a barrel & shipping them the action to fit it to. I'd love nothing quite so much as seeing a Cheetah run......such speed really draws me. (I guess I'm a over age kid @ 55) But custom, no matter how much care I use in figuring it up comes to about a 40% cost increase. While that would include a couple desirable things I can't possible get factory, it's still a issue. But a custom stock & longer wildcat barrel would be nice.

I've heard a bit about a Savage custom shop for orders. While I need to know more that sounds like a possible very good option for me.

The LRPV action & it's target trigger group + the heavier barrel with a 1/9 twist if chambered for the 220 Swift & mounted into a laminated wood stock would suit me quite well. And I expect it would be at a much lower price than full out custom would be.

Strange but I've just had another option come to mind as I type this. If the 220 is out of the question...get the LRPV set up in 22-250 & if after use for a bit, if I still want a bit more......fire lap polish the barrel just prior to having it rechambered into a 220 or the Cheetah.

Fire lapped may not be fully as nice as a hand lapped barrel, but by rechambering to the longer Swift cartridge I'd eliminate the one major down side to fire lapping.....the throat erosion fire lapping causes. The rechambering should cut 1/3" or a bit more of the throat new.........

LOL!

Art Eatman's tag line begins to haunt me...... I've been researching this to the point of...

Outdoorsman · February 13, 2011, 06:57 PM

Art Eatman said,

:The Lilja comment about wider lands resisting throat erosion better was an interesting find..."

Yeah, while I'm not new to the shooting sports I always make a major effort towards research prior to spending a bunch of money. You usually go over a fair amount of stuff you know or should know already, but like that 3 land wear issues I usually find a few gems as well. At least I'll know I've done my best to get the best set up possible for my usage.

603Country · February 13, 2011, 09:49 PM

Well, you can't really go wrong with going with the 220 Swift. I love my old Swift, and it'll really shoot tiny groups. It was set up for me in the 80's by the guy that runs Rifles, Inc. I didn't know at the time that he was THAT good a gunsmith/gunmaker, but I'm sure happy I found him. The only negative side to the caliber is that it'll dirty up the barrel faster than my 223, but I guess that's to be expected from an intense cartridge like the Swift. As for range, I've never used it past about 400 yards, so I don't have any direct knowledge of how good it is to 600 yards, but if I had a 600 yard shot to make, that's the gun I'd get from the gun safe. I guess I'd wait till the wind died down, if I could, but here in central Texas the wind always blows. If you do get a 220 Swift, try 38.5 grains of 4064 behind the 55 grain Nosler BT, and I use Norma brass and CCI benchrest primers.

Outdoorsman · February 14, 2011, 12:01 AM

603,

Have you ever used the 60 gr. Bal. tips or the 65 Gameking in your Swift? For longer range those are two I've been considering along with the 75 A max.

I'm in Mi and often have low/no wind shooting chances in summer & fall. I've killed a few chucks out to a max of 490yds with my 22-250 in still conditions. It's my hope that a bit longer & heavier barrel will extend that a bit. I'm pretty sure the Swift's bit of extra speed would be a real help to in try'n to reach 600 though.

My longest on yotes so far is only a bit over 300yds. I had a huge one that I'd guess could have gone over 50 lbs hang up out at about 550-600yds. But he kept shifting around so I never took a shot. But I can't help but think about him.......that's the second time he's done that to me.

603Country · February 14, 2011, 07:05 PM

Howdy,

I did use the 60 grain Nosler for a time, but it was the Solid Base Boattail version - before they went to the Ballistic Tip. For a time I couldn't get the 60 gr SBBT, and they hadn't brought out the BT yet in 60 grains (and I'll admit that I didn't know they had done so), so I went back to the 55 grain Ballistic Tip. I'd go back to a 60 grain, but I have what appears to be almost a lifetime supply of the 55 grain BT's, and I need to shoot em up. They work just fine on Coyotes out to maybe 400 yards. Past that, I have no real world data. Only thing I'd change on my Swift is the scope. I have the 6.5 to 20 by 50mm in the 30mm tube. It's great, but I'd love those varmint hunter lines for 300, 400, and 500. I can send it to Leupold for that, and I might do it. I haven't checked on what it would cost.

Outdoorsman · February 14, 2011, 09:13 PM

603,

What twist is your barrel & it's length?

Do you recall what your best velocity was with the 60 gr. loads?

I'm looking forward to this rifle. I've two great nephews who dearly want to be hunters. I"m the only hunter left in the family so they're stuck with me.........heh. I may be older than those who taught me, but this next summer is one I look forward to a lot.

The new rifle is going to play a large role.......

603Country · February 14, 2011, 11:19 PM

I'm mildly embarrassed to say that I don't know what the twist is. When the original barrel's throat got eroded to where I couldn't seat the bullet out far enough, that's when I went to the Rifles, Inc. fellow for a new barrel. I asked him to take the gun and do what it took to make it a real shooter and put a short (20 inch) medium weight barrel on it. He suggested a Douglas Number 2 contour, and I went with that. When I got it back, it shot like a dream and it really didn't seem to matter which bullet I used. I know that a short barrel on the Swift means I lose velocity, but I don't care. It's easy to handle and if I can see it, I feel like I can hit it (helps to have good glass, confidence, and a rangefinder). Anyway, maybe a Douglas Number 2 contour in 22 caliber always comes with the same twist (or maybe not), so the info might be on the internet. Or...I can measure it. One thing about that Douglas barrel...when I cleaned it, I was amazed at how smooth it was. No other rifle barrel I have is as smooth as the inside of that one. I have always wondered if it would shoot even better if I had gone with the more expensive Douglas Premium airgauged barrel. Couldn't shoot that much better...or could it?

603Country · February 16, 2011, 12:56 PM

Outdoorsman,

I just checked, and the twist in my Swift barrel is 1 in 14 inches.

603

All in moderation · February 16, 2011, 01:45 PM

Outdoorsman, I'm not to up on the 22 calibers so I will leave the caliber, barrel length, and twist up to others with more experience. As far as you question about custom vs factory, my first question is what will the rifle be used for, how much accuracy are you after and how much can you spend. From what I am understanding from your question so far, I would suggest looking at a cheap Savage model with the accu-trigger. Take off the barrel and replace it with something like a shilen prefit, sell the original barrel to recover some of the expense. Have the knew barrel head space properly, bed it in the original stock. Open the stock up more than what it already is (at least 1/8" around the whole barrel). Then shoot it to see what accuracy you are getting. If it will not shoot below 1/2" groups I would be surprised, but if it won't, buy an after market stock and bed the rifle into that (sell the factory stock). You should have near match grade accuracy for under $1000.00.

Outdoorsman · February 17, 2011, 12:19 AM

All in moderation said,

"....my first question is what will the rifle be used for, how much accuracy are you after and how much can you spend."

Hi,

The rifle will be used for woodchucks, fox, yotes, and for every fox or yote I shoot I expect I'll shoot 30 chucks with it, perhaps even more. The farms I can shoot on offer locations that can give ranges up to 600yds on chucks, and in a few extreme cases up to 800 on predators.

I figure I'll forgo the ultra long shots as the longest I've made in my life was about 660. A better rifle may well improve my max range, but that's my comfort zone for shooting, even a yote deserves a clean shot.

I may sell a Benelli Montefeltro to allow me more spending latitude, but unless I do the custom will have to be a budget one, not more than about 1500$ for the rifle. I can use a 6-20x 52mm I have already for the scope, at least for some time.

February 10, 2011, 09:43 PM	#1
Outdoorsman Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Mi Posts: 27	Custom vs Factory & barrel choices.....?? I'm considering building a custom rifle vs buying a Savage model 12 LRPV varminter. 22-250 is the starting point for the chambering of this gun, but Swift & Cheetah are also of strong interest to me. Not interested in larger bores as I have that covered, but want a long ranger .22 for a area where chances of a bullets skipping worry me. Shots can range out to 600+yds on chucks, fox & yotes. This led me to looking at all the different barrel makers offerings. Been doing that for several weeks now. I like the idea of the Broughton 5C barrels as it makes sense they should clean a bit easier & Broughton offers a VERY heavy 28" barrel that tapers to .940"..... I also like the Krieger barrels due to the fact you can get the barrel fitted to the action & I could get a 1/8.5" twist. Pac Nor offers 3 land & grove configuration which is said to wear longer & they also offer fitting of the barrel to the action. The wide selection of wildcat chamberings also is a temptation for me.....22-243 perhaps? Walther offers barrels made of a tougher LW50 stainless steel. To bad nobody offers a 3 land and groove canted land barrel made of LW50 steel that would also fit the barrel to the action. If I go the custom route the action to build it on will be a Savage target 12 with the left port. If factory the same action with a 1/9 twist 22-250 barrel. So I'm looking for your input guys, which is the better way to go? Is the custom rig worth the extra $$$??

February 11, 2011, 05:52 PM	#3
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	For me, I would get the Savage LRPV, but in .204 Ruger instead of 22-250... I actually almost bought one on sale a few weeks ago, but the Model 10 FCP in .308 spoke to me more so that's what went home with me. I still want a 12 LRPV dual port in .204. I think it's next on my list... __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

February 12, 2011, 07:00 PM	#6
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,586	My brother built one on a Mark V CZ action. It's deadly accurate but still has an older scope on it,(I'm trying to trade him out of it, as we speak, and of course I'll let you all know the outcome) having said that it's fast, accurate, fun to shoot, and handles very well in the field and looks very nice. 22-250 BTW Factory barrel! __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry. Last edited by hooligan1; February 12, 2011 at 07:01 PM. Reason: added info

February 13, 2011, 06:57 PM	#13
Outdoorsman Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Mi Posts: 27	Art Eatman said, :The Lilja comment about wider lands resisting throat erosion better was an interesting find..." Yeah, while I'm not new to the shooting sports I always make a major effort towards research prior to spending a bunch of money. You usually go over a fair amount of stuff you know or should know already, but like that 3 land wear issues I usually find a few gems as well. At least I'll know I've done my best to get the best set up possible for my usage. Last edited by Outdoorsman; February 13, 2011 at 11:45 PM.

February 11, 2011, 05:16 PM	#2
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Since it's happened that two-groove '03 Springfield barrels can be quite accurate, I see no objection to a three-groove. I don't quite follow the "wear" issue, since burning of the first quarter-inch or so of the throat of a barrel is where accuracy problems begin. The hotter the cartridge, the faster the burning. Even something like the Cheetah is going to see degradation in the trajectory when past 400 to 500 yards. That's where exact knowledge of the distance becomes very important--which is why folks buy laser range-finders. The next big problem is wind drift, and that's seriously big. My own experiences with the Swift and the .22-250 have me figuring that they'd be my own choice if I were to build a dedicated 22-caliber varmint rifle.

February 11, 2011, 07:52 PM	#4
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I have a Ruger 77V that I had rebarreled with a Douglas barrel. It's in 220 Swift, and it will really shoot. I had the gun accurized when the barrel was changed out. It's capable of .25 inch groups if I'm having a good day. That caliber or the 22-250 are both terrific, and if you're going custom, the 22-250 Ackley Improved is equal to the Swift in velocity. Another consideration for varmint and deer use would be the 243 Ackley Improved. Any of those would make you very happy on long distance shots. You'll need to be a handloader for any of those but the 22-250. The factory 220 Swift loads are not very hot these days.

February 12, 2011, 02:39 PM	#5
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	Think about what bullet you will shoot.To dispatch critters in humane fashion, not all of the heavier bullets are suitable.A 75 gr A-max would likely work,as may some Bergers.The true varmint bullets only go up to about 60 gr,that I have found. At the ranges you are considering,BC is a factor

February 13, 2011, 01:50 AM	#7
Outdoorsman Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Mi Posts: 27	Art Eatman, "I don't quite follow the "wear" issue, since burning of the first quarter-inch or so of the throat of a barrel is where accuracy problems begin. The hotter the cartridge, the faster the burning." http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilj...d%206%20Groove Read this where 3 vs 6 groove barrels are discussed. Lilja is another barrel to consider, but as I don't know of a smith to do the work, I'm looking more to Kreiger & Pac Nor so far...

February 13, 2011, 02:31 AM	#8
Outdoorsman Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Mi Posts: 27	HiBC, "Think about what bullet you will shoot.To dispatch critters in humane fashion, not all of the heavier bullets are suitable.A 75 gr A-max would likely work,as may some Bergers.The true varmint bullets only go up to about 60 gr,that I have found. At the ranges you are considering,BC is a factor" I agree with the need for good BC for out beyond 400. And the Amax 75 is what I hope to use for the real long shooting. Would also like to try the 65gr. gameking. Thanks for the ideas guys, keep them come'n.

February 13, 2011, 03:28 AM	#9
Outdoorsman Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Mi Posts: 27	Hi 603, I got into handloading almost 40 yr. ago, so that does not bother me. Not really interested in the AI route if I go custom as the fire forming takes away a bit of barrel life & time. If I build a Cheetah / 22-243 it's got to be the Mark II that uses the standard shoulder angle. All I'd need do then is neck down the normal 243 cases. Cost of those dies kinda bites though, will boost the overall cost of going with a all out custom. But would sure be a fun one to shoot I think. I've shot .222 & 22-250 for years, but both are sporter weight barrels. My dad & I used to hunt fox with them, one to track and the other guy circle ahead. Back before the yotes came and drove out a lot of the fox...in the 70's. From what I've read the 22-243 should give at least 250fps more than the 22-250 shoot'n the big 75 gr. loads & the Swift about 80-100 fps. Does this sound about right to you guys? In spite of all the years I've shot 22-250 with success, I'm thinking I'd like to go a bit bigger as long as I'm going for a heavy barreled longer range capable rifle. Wish the gun companies offer a better selection of Swift rifles. A LRPV Savage in the Swift would about fit the bill.

February 13, 2011, 10:27 AM	#10
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	The Lilja comment about wider lands resisting throat erosion better was an interesting find...

February 13, 2011, 02:08 PM	#11
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Outdoorsman, If it was me, I'd go with a custom gun (since it's easy for me to spend your money). If you're gonna shoot coyotes at up to 600 yards, accuracy is going to have to be absolutely top of the line. As for the caliber, 22's are not as resistant to wind drift as a 24 caliber, so maybe the 243 AI or 6mmAI would indeed be better choices, even though there's the fire forming and barrel wear to deal with. And your original posting mentioned that you were looking at barrel choices, so you're already thinking about what's going to handle lots of powder and hopefully not foul too quickly. When you finish deciding, please tell us what you chose. I'm very interested in hearing what you go with, and your reasoning. And what scope are you going to use?

February 13, 2011, 06:50 PM	#12
Outdoorsman Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Mi Posts: 27	Hi 603, If cost were not a big part of deciding, I'd be ordering up a barrel & shipping them the action to fit it to. I'd love nothing quite so much as seeing a Cheetah run......such speed really draws me. (I guess I'm a over age kid @ 55) But custom, no matter how much care I use in figuring it up comes to about a 40% cost increase. While that would include a couple desirable things I can't possible get factory, it's still a issue. But a custom stock & longer wildcat barrel would be nice. I've heard a bit about a Savage custom shop for orders. While I need to know more that sounds like a possible very good option for me. The LRPV action & it's target trigger group + the heavier barrel with a 1/9 twist if chambered for the 220 Swift & mounted into a laminated wood stock would suit me quite well. And I expect it would be at a much lower price than full out custom would be. Strange but I've just had another option come to mind as I type this. If the 220 is out of the question...get the LRPV set up in 22-250 & if after use for a bit, if I still want a bit more......fire lap polish the barrel just prior to having it rechambered into a 220 or the Cheetah. Fire lapped may not be fully as nice as a hand lapped barrel, but by rechambering to the longer Swift cartridge I'd eliminate the one major down side to fire lapping.....the throat erosion fire lapping causes. The rechambering should cut 1/3" or a bit more of the throat new......... LOL! Art Eatman's tag line begins to haunt me...... I've been researching this to the point of...

February 13, 2011, 09:49 PM	#14
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Well, you can't really go wrong with going with the 220 Swift. I love my old Swift, and it'll really shoot tiny groups. It was set up for me in the 80's by the guy that runs Rifles, Inc. I didn't know at the time that he was THAT good a gunsmith/gunmaker, but I'm sure happy I found him. The only negative side to the caliber is that it'll dirty up the barrel faster than my 223, but I guess that's to be expected from an intense cartridge like the Swift. As for range, I've never used it past about 400 yards, so I don't have any direct knowledge of how good it is to 600 yards, but if I had a 600 yard shot to make, that's the gun I'd get from the gun safe. I guess I'd wait till the wind died down, if I could, but here in central Texas the wind always blows. If you do get a 220 Swift, try 38.5 grains of 4064 behind the 55 grain Nosler BT, and I use Norma brass and CCI benchrest primers.

February 14, 2011, 12:01 AM	#15
Outdoorsman Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Mi Posts: 27	603, Have you ever used the 60 gr. Bal. tips or the 65 Gameking in your Swift? For longer range those are two I've been considering along with the 75 A max. I'm in Mi and often have low/no wind shooting chances in summer & fall. I've killed a few chucks out to a max of 490yds with my 22-250 in still conditions. It's my hope that a bit longer & heavier barrel will extend that a bit. I'm pretty sure the Swift's bit of extra speed would be a real help to in try'n to reach 600 though. My longest on yotes so far is only a bit over 300yds. I had a huge one that I'd guess could have gone over 50 lbs hang up out at about 550-600yds. But he kept shifting around so I never took a shot. But I can't help but think about him.......that's the second time he's done that to me.

February 14, 2011, 07:05 PM	#16
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Howdy, I did use the 60 grain Nosler for a time, but it was the Solid Base Boattail version - before they went to the Ballistic Tip. For a time I couldn't get the 60 gr SBBT, and they hadn't brought out the BT yet in 60 grains (and I'll admit that I didn't know they had done so), so I went back to the 55 grain Ballistic Tip. I'd go back to a 60 grain, but I have what appears to be almost a lifetime supply of the 55 grain BT's, and I need to shoot em up. They work just fine on Coyotes out to maybe 400 yards. Past that, I have no real world data. Only thing I'd change on my Swift is the scope. I have the 6.5 to 20 by 50mm in the 30mm tube. It's great, but I'd love those varmint hunter lines for 300, 400, and 500. I can send it to Leupold for that, and I might do it. I haven't checked on what it would cost.

February 14, 2011, 09:13 PM	#17
Outdoorsman Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Mi Posts: 27	603, What twist is your barrel & it's length? Do you recall what your best velocity was with the 60 gr. loads? I'm looking forward to this rifle. I've two great nephews who dearly want to be hunters. I"m the only hunter left in the family so they're stuck with me.........heh. I may be older than those who taught me, but this next summer is one I look forward to a lot. The new rifle is going to play a large role.......

February 14, 2011, 11:19 PM	#18
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I'm mildly embarrassed to say that I don't know what the twist is. When the original barrel's throat got eroded to where I couldn't seat the bullet out far enough, that's when I went to the Rifles, Inc. fellow for a new barrel. I asked him to take the gun and do what it took to make it a real shooter and put a short (20 inch) medium weight barrel on it. He suggested a Douglas Number 2 contour, and I went with that. When I got it back, it shot like a dream and it really didn't seem to matter which bullet I used. I know that a short barrel on the Swift means I lose velocity, but I don't care. It's easy to handle and if I can see it, I feel like I can hit it (helps to have good glass, confidence, and a rangefinder). Anyway, maybe a Douglas Number 2 contour in 22 caliber always comes with the same twist (or maybe not), so the info might be on the internet. Or...I can measure it. One thing about that Douglas barrel...when I cleaned it, I was amazed at how smooth it was. No other rifle barrel I have is as smooth as the inside of that one. I have always wondered if it would shoot even better if I had gone with the more expensive Douglas Premium airgauged barrel. Couldn't shoot that much better...or could it?

February 16, 2011, 12:56 PM	#19
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	Outdoorsman, I just checked, and the twist in my Swift barrel is 1 in 14 inches. 603

February 16, 2011, 01:45 PM	#20
All in moderation Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 74	Outdoorsman, I'm not to up on the 22 calibers so I will leave the caliber, barrel length, and twist up to others with more experience. As far as you question about custom vs factory, my first question is what will the rifle be used for, how much accuracy are you after and how much can you spend. From what I am understanding from your question so far, I would suggest looking at a cheap Savage model with the accu-trigger. Take off the barrel and replace it with something like a shilen prefit, sell the original barrel to recover some of the expense. Have the knew barrel head space properly, bed it in the original stock. Open the stock up more than what it already is (at least 1/8" around the whole barrel). Then shoot it to see what accuracy you are getting. If it will not shoot below 1/2" groups I would be surprised, but if it won't, buy an after market stock and bed the rifle into that (sell the factory stock). You should have near match grade accuracy for under $1000.00.

February 17, 2011, 12:19 AM	#21
Outdoorsman Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Mi Posts: 27	All in moderation said, "....my first question is what will the rifle be used for, how much accuracy are you after and how much can you spend." Hi, The rifle will be used for woodchucks, fox, yotes, and for every fox or yote I shoot I expect I'll shoot 30 chucks with it, perhaps even more. The farms I can shoot on offer locations that can give ranges up to 600yds on chucks, and in a few extreme cases up to 800 on predators. I figure I'll forgo the ultra long shots as the longest I've made in my life was about 660. A better rifle may well improve my max range, but that's my comfort zone for shooting, even a yote deserves a clean shot. I may sell a Benelli Montefeltro to allow me more spending latitude, but unless I do the custom will have to be a budget one, not more than about 1500$ for the rifle. I can use a 6-20x 52mm I have already for the scope, at least for some time.