Lead Bullets and Glocks

Joe D · March 3, 2006, 07:43 AM

Boy have I stired up the pot since I recently started posting on this forum again. I appear to have gotten some folks pretty upset. That was never my intent. I am not new to this forum. I first joined in Oct. of 1999.
I have refuted some long standing beliefs about Glocks in general. What I have posted on the lead bullet issues are my personal experiences. I tend to believe little of what I read until I have proven or disproven the issue to myself. There are several "experts" that claim lead bullets cannot be fired safely from Glocks. That has not been what I have experienced. A noted barrel maker is often quoted.
What I have observed is the two brands of lead bullets that I use, Valiant and Magnus, come from quality bullet manufacturers. I have have not had any problems with leading in MY Glocks after tens of thousands of rounds fired. My Kimbers lead. Does that make one safe and the other not? Not in my opinion. Common sense says if you have a gun that leads you will have to scrub that barrel more often.
I am pretty conservative with my loading. The only load I use that goes above 1,000 fps is my 9mm practice load at 1050 fps. It has been a long standing lead bullet rule not to drive them much past 1,000 in ANY gun. There are those that do so safely, just not me.
This post is not meant to start another flame war, but to try and explain some of my positions. I have been somewhat harsh to some of the other posters here. I will refrain from that in the future. It is OK to differ in opinions. Does not mean that one is right and the other wrong.
I am 57 years old. I have been shooting competitively since I was 12. I have been reloading since I was 21. Gunsmithing on the side for 30+ years. Master Class IDPA shooter. Does all of this make me an expert? Never claimed to be. I do have a little experience in some areas though.

tjhands · March 3, 2006, 09:58 AM

Having shot as many lead bullets through Glock barrels as you have, does strengthen your case, but it's also valid for someone to say, "if I put a blindfold on and cross the highway 10,000 times, does that make it a safe activity?"

I bought a KKM barrel for my Glock 20 so I could have peace of mind when shooting lead. The warnings about lead through a Glock barrel scared me enough to get the aftermarket barrel. Maybe I'm a victim of hype, but I'm a relaxed victim.

crazylegs · March 3, 2006, 10:40 AM

JoeD, I agree with you. Back in 1987 I purchased a 17L and shot thousands of lead bullets through it with no problem. I was not uncommon for me to spend the day at the range and go through 400 rounds. I do not believe in the Glock/lead syndrome. A lot of folks shoot lead through their Glocks. Every now and then, I hear about a "study" conducted by a "forensic engineer" that proved Glocks lead up. I asked the poster of this tidbit of earth shattering news (sic) if the study was compared to standard rifled barrels. He couldn't tell me. Personnaly, I believe it's an urban legend. You're not alone in your thoughts, believe me. Reasonable gun care and attention to load developement is all that is needed.
crazylegs

crazylegs · March 3, 2006, 10:45 AM

TJ, nothing wrong with that. I have a KKM in my G30, not because I'm worried about leading, but more concerned about case support ( which is probably paranoia on my part)

crazylegs

Leftoverdj · March 3, 2006, 11:16 AM

I checked with the Cast Boolits crew. The consensus was that the KBs are a combination of a design flaw in the .40 S&W and loaders who do not understand the limits of the cast bullet. No one had ever seen a KB in Glock in .45 ACP nor in moderate 9mm loads. Something that did get mentioned several times was the possibility of a bullet being pushed back into the case in chambering. This would greatly elevate pressures.

918v · March 3, 2006, 01:12 PM

I don't think it is a polygon rifling vs. lead problem. It is a bullet sizing problem with a combination of other factors. If the bullet is not sized properly to the bore/throat, it will lead. Once leading begins, it only gets worse. But there are several other variables:

1. Hardness
2. Lube
3. Velocity
4. Powder brand

It is entirely possible that JoeD uses the ideal combination of the above to minimize leading. But there are some dummies who will take some careless advice and load some undersized bullets (aka Hornady) to a high velocity with a maximum pressure load and have a KB in the works.

There are people who don't clean their guns regularly. There are people who don't understand pressure curves, locked-breech systems, OAL and such. Some think that 147gr 9mm ammo has 147 grains of powder! They don't read. They just jump into the hobby and post, "Can you give me a good load for a 9mm 147gr Bullet? I have some 2400 powder on hand."

March 3, 2006, 07:43 AM	#1
Joe D Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 1999 Location: Alabama Posts: 455	Lead Bullets and Glocks Boy have I stired up the pot since I recently started posting on this forum again. I appear to have gotten some folks pretty upset. That was never my intent. I am not new to this forum. I first joined in Oct. of 1999. I have refuted some long standing beliefs about Glocks in general. What I have posted on the lead bullet issues are my personal experiences. I tend to believe little of what I read until I have proven or disproven the issue to myself. There are several "experts" that claim lead bullets cannot be fired safely from Glocks. That has not been what I have experienced. A noted barrel maker is often quoted. What I have observed is the two brands of lead bullets that I use, Valiant and Magnus, come from quality bullet manufacturers. I have have not had any problems with leading in MY Glocks after tens of thousands of rounds fired. My Kimbers lead. Does that make one safe and the other not? Not in my opinion. Common sense says if you have a gun that leads you will have to scrub that barrel more often. I am pretty conservative with my loading. The only load I use that goes above 1,000 fps is my 9mm practice load at 1050 fps. It has been a long standing lead bullet rule not to drive them much past 1,000 in ANY gun. There are those that do so safely, just not me. This post is not meant to start another flame war, but to try and explain some of my positions. I have been somewhat harsh to some of the other posters here. I will refrain from that in the future. It is OK to differ in opinions. Does not mean that one is right and the other wrong. I am 57 years old. I have been shooting competitively since I was 12. I have been reloading since I was 21. Gunsmithing on the side for 30+ years. Master Class IDPA shooter. Does all of this make me an expert? Never claimed to be. I do have a little experience in some areas though. __________________ Miss? That can't be a miss. Looks like a perfect double to me.

March 3, 2006, 09:58 AM	#2
tjhands Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Posts: 1,718	Having shot as many lead bullets through Glock barrels as you have, does strengthen your case, but it's also valid for someone to say, "if I put a blindfold on and cross the highway 10,000 times, does that make it a safe activity?" I bought a KKM barrel for my Glock 20 so I could have peace of mind when shooting lead. The warnings about lead through a Glock barrel scared me enough to get the aftermarket barrel. Maybe I'm a victim of hype, but I'm a relaxed victim. __________________ "If the sole purpose of handguns is to kill people, then mine are all defective." - Uncle Ted Nugent

March 3, 2006, 10:40 AM	#3
crazylegs Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2004 Posts: 145	JoeD, I agree with you. Back in 1987 I purchased a 17L and shot thousands of lead bullets through it with no problem. I was not uncommon for me to spend the day at the range and go through 400 rounds. I do not believe in the Glock/lead syndrome. A lot of folks shoot lead through their Glocks. Every now and then, I hear about a "study" conducted by a "forensic engineer" that proved Glocks lead up. I asked the poster of this tidbit of earth shattering news (sic) if the study was compared to standard rifled barrels. He couldn't tell me. Personnaly, I believe it's an urban legend. You're not alone in your thoughts, believe me. Reasonable gun care and attention to load developement is all that is needed. crazylegs

March 3, 2006, 10:45 AM	#4
crazylegs Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2004 Posts: 145	TJ, nothing wrong with that. I have a KKM in my G30, not because I'm worried about leading, but more concerned about case support ( which is probably paranoia on my part) crazylegs

March 3, 2006, 11:16 AM	#5
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	I checked with the Cast Boolits crew. The consensus was that the KBs are a combination of a design flaw in the .40 S&W and loaders who do not understand the limits of the cast bullet. No one had ever seen a KB in Glock in .45 ACP nor in moderate 9mm loads. Something that did get mentioned several times was the possibility of a bullet being pushed back into the case in chambering. This would greatly elevate pressures.

March 3, 2006, 01:12 PM	#6
918v Junior member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 1,372	I don't think it is a polygon rifling vs. lead problem. It is a bullet sizing problem with a combination of other factors. If the bullet is not sized properly to the bore/throat, it will lead. Once leading begins, it only gets worse. But there are several other variables: 1. Hardness 2. Lube 3. Velocity 4. Powder brand It is entirely possible that JoeD uses the ideal combination of the above to minimize leading. But there are some dummies who will take some careless advice and load some undersized bullets (aka Hornady) to a high velocity with a maximum pressure load and have a KB in the works. There are people who don't clean their guns regularly. There are people who don't understand pressure curves, locked-breech systems, OAL and such. Some think that 147gr 9mm ammo has 147 grains of powder! They don't read. They just jump into the hobby and post, "Can you give me a good load for a 9mm 147gr Bullet? I have some 2400 powder on hand."