1911 Platform 9mm?

DanThaMan · August 24, 2009, 08:46 PM

I am relatively new to 1911's, and looove the way they handle and shoot. They so sooo darn smooth firing the big 45 acp... i expected a sore wrist and was pleasantly surprised when I first first one. I was just wondering, if the hefty steel 1911 platform is smooth with the 45 acp, i can't imagine how smooth it owuld be in 9mm; I have seen a few in 9mm too. So for those of you who have shot or own a 9mm 1911... just how smooth and accurate are they?

THEZACHARIAS · August 24, 2009, 09:18 PM

Not too terribly different from the .45 to be honest. Lighter recoil, same quality trigger. Nice overall package, unless you have a bunch of old .45 single stack magazines and are too cheap to buy new ones in 9mm (ahem... oh wait, that was in reference to myself

).

TRguy · August 24, 2009, 09:23 PM

Heck, this says it all.......

1911 9mm? Why?

I think if you buy a 1911 9mm you get a gift certificate for a free dress at Talbots.

greyson97 · August 24, 2009, 10:15 PM

box of 50 9mm rounds: $9 at wally world
box of 50 .45 caliber rounds: unavailable at wally world, found some at academy for $19

i dont think paper will know the difference between being shot by a 45 over a 9. your wrist and most importantly, your wallet will.

yes. i looked at the bullets head on, and i definetly do not want to get shot by a .45, but i also don't want to get shot with a SD 9mm HP.

if you want the look and feel of a 1911, and the economy of shooting a 9mm, go for it. I am currently waiting for taurus to ship their 1911b-9

Skan21 · August 24, 2009, 10:42 PM

There are different and cheaper ways to shoot a 9mm. My XD(M) 9 handles just like my loaded Springer 1911. And it was much cheaper. $575 for my 9, and $800 for my 1911. If ya got the money to waste, cool. But if you don't, cheap polymer that shoots just as good, IMO, is good too.

Tamara · August 24, 2009, 11:22 PM

Much as it pains me to admit it, my ParaUSA LTC9 has been flawless. Given the difference in cost between 9x19 and .45ACP, it has seen a lot more usage than my 1911's in the more traditional chambering, to the point of being my main gun for bowling pin shooting and more or less living in my range bag to be taken to the range every weekend for skill drills.

Contrary to the opinions of the second respondent in this thread, it did not come with any gift certificates to a clothing store, but then unlike him I am fairly confident in my gender and don't look to bolster it through my choice of pistols.

**Shane Tuttle** · August 24, 2009, 11:37 PM

You know, I was debating on removing that pic...until you came along, Tamara. A gut check is deservingly in order.

robctwo · August 24, 2009, 11:52 PM

Les Baer PII .45 1.5" guarantee

Les Baer PII 9mm

I had some extractor issues with the 9mm when new, fixed by a local smith. I shoot the 9mm for speed steel and the .45 for bowling pins.

I don't wear a dress, but I've been thinking of a kilt, regimental

TRguy · August 25, 2009, 09:45 AM

Appreciate you being able to see the humor in my post Tamara. Some people get too worked up over a little injected humor in forums.

I am quite confident in my gender, so much so I shoot my G19 and PX4 interchangeably in IDPA SSP regularly.

Even been known to pull out the the 1911 single stack para and shoot CDP on that rare occasion I may be feeling gender deficient.

But I am in agreement also with cheaper alternatives to shooting with 9mm. Some plastic fantastic drink of choice (M&P, Glock, XD, PX4,.....)might work better for OP than dropping extra nickels on 9mm 1911 platform. But beauty of the good ole USA (For NOW) is you have choice.

JMB had it right with the 1911 in 45 (well I do like the .38 Super too). If he meant for it to be in 9mm he would have designed a gun like the Browning Hi-Power. Oh wait, he did.

Tamara · August 25, 2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robctwo

I shoot the 9mm for speed steel and the .45 for bowling pins.

Where I shoot pins, they'll let minor shoot heads-up against major, and of course the minor class shooter has their pins halfway back on the table.

It's almost cheating, because a hot 147gr JHP will take a pin from halfway back with plenty of authority.

critter44 · August 25, 2009, 10:13 AM

Funny you should mention this! I just had my local 'smith build me one on an Essex frame & slide, Cart (or is it Kart?) barrel with Wilson innerds. It is the slickest, sweetest shootin', easiest kickin' 1911 I've ever fired. Accuracy is really, REALLY good!

Don't listen to the folks who say it is cheaper to shoot than a .45 though. Why? Cause you'll shoot it 5X more than the .45 if you don't watch it!

greyson97 · August 25, 2009, 10:37 AM

if for the same money i can shoot something 5x more, thatd put a big

on my face

Willie Lowman · August 25, 2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Don't listen to the folks who say it is cheaper to shoot than a .45 though. Why? Cause you'll shoot it 5X more than the .45 if you don't watch it!

But, that's why I want one!

.40 and .45 make my carpal tunnel flare up and my wrist pops alot after a good range day. 9mm not so much. 9mm makes paper and steel just as dead as .45

win-lose · August 25, 2009, 11:20 AM

I have a colt series 80 9mm 1911. It runs great and is accurate. I bought it to add a 9mm to my collection and 1911's are the only bottom feeders that I seem to like. Unfortunately, for me it doesn't point as naturally as my .45 1911. I much prefer a straight back grip frame of my S&W 1911. The colt has a curved back grip frame that really throws me off. I kept it for my wife, but it turns out that the grip frame is too big for her. Looks like it will be going up for sale. I'm really ok with this as I want to reduce the # of calibers I have anyway.

RickB · August 25, 2009, 11:40 AM

Swapping out the mainspring housing (curved back grip frame) is a five-minute job. People with small hands tend to prefer the flat housing.
My "sub caliber" 1911 is a .38 Super loaded to wimpy levels (130gr@1000fps) for competition. It is a real pleasure to shoot, although other than to comply with the specifics of a rule book, I'm not sure what it's for? I already have .45s and a 10mm if something needs a hurt put on it. I'm angling to get a 9mm, but will probably convert it to 9x23 and keep the old barrel so I can shoot squirrels with cheap ammo if necessary.

Wleoff · August 25, 2009, 12:41 PM

I shot my friends S&W 1911 in 9mm with 5" barrel and it's one of the most accurate 1911s that I've ever shot. I've got one on order. A little less than $1100, if I remember right. I never considered a 1911 in 9mm until I shot this gun.

rsxr22 · August 25, 2009, 02:00 PM

1911 9mm's are great!!!

Yes the .45 is what the gun was designed around, but shooting a 9mm 1911 says nothing of gender, i know it was a joke but i have heard it being seriously said other places. Most competitions shooter's are shooting 9mm or .38 Super in matches and they are some of the best shots in the world. Could they do the same with a .45? Probably pretty close, but i think speed would suffer a small amount because of the felt recoil. Then again I've watched Sevigny shoot a .45 and he made it look like he was shooting a .22. It is ridiculous!! I know there guns are tweaked and they are using lighter loads, but i am a strong guy and see not even a speckle of comparison between pro shooters and I. Then again i have never watched myself shoot so i am just speculating. Im not talking about accuracy i know i dont compare there but control of the gun is more what im speaking of

j28s · August 25, 2009, 04:20 PM

I have an STI Trojan 5 9mm and a Kimber Grand Raptor .45.

Yes, the .45 does have more kick and ft lbs of force. If you need a gun to shot an intruder that happens to have a bulletproof vest on, well, you'll want a .45 vs. a 9mm. Then again, if you are a good shot just put 10 rounds of 9mm Winchester Ranger +P+, and you'll have the same force as a standard .45 ACP round.

Depends on what you want the 1911 for... STI 9mm has a 10 round mag, .45 has a 8 round mag. if you want to shoot USPSA single stack and you can hit the A zone, then get a 9mm, you'll have two extra rounds in the mag which will help, but you'll be shooting minor.

1911 guns in general shoot very accurate in my opinion compared to polymer guns. I can shoot 5 to 6 rounds pretty much through the same hole at 10 yards with my 9mm using OTS (off the shelf) ammo. I can put 4 to 5 rounds through the same hole at 10 yards with my .45 using OTS ammo. At 25 yards slow fire, both shoot a golfball sized pattern. Bottomline, both are damn accurate.

If you shoot a lot, I would go with the 9mm. It is a hell of a lot cheaper to shoot...($12/box vs $16/box)...adds up if you shoot 300 rounds a week at 200 rounds at a match each week...that's about 13 extra boxes of 9mm in a month...

don95sml · August 25, 2009, 05:34 PM

j28s wrote:

Quote:

I have an STI Trojan 5 9mm and a Kimber Grand Raptor .45.

You may want to check out www.brazoscustom.com/ as a source for the STI Trojan. STI has an excellent reputation for accuracy.

Art Eatman · August 25, 2009, 06:04 PM

"If you shoot a lot, I would go with the 9mm. It is a hell of a lot cheaper to shoot...($12/box vs $16/box)...adds up if you shoot 300 rounds a week at 200 rounds at a match each week."

And now you know why God intended shooters to also be reloaders.

In the week or two before the Steel Challenge match of 1982, Chip McCormick shot some 4,000 rounds of practice. John Shaw said he'd done about 10,000. (At that time, Chip did not have a sponsor. John did.)

KyJim · August 25, 2009, 06:45 PM

I have a Colt 9mm Commander and it's nice to shoot on the range. Not flawless, but I don't care because I don't carry it. For that, I'll stick with the .45.

stevieboy · August 25, 2009, 08:07 PM

I'm primarily a revolver guy and I'm a latecomer to the delights of 1911 ownership. I love mine (S & W 1911) and have given a lot of thought to adding a 9 to the collection. From everything I've read it makes a lot of sense, especially due to the much lower cost of 9mm ammo vs. 45acp. Maybe, next year

Zak Smith · August 26, 2009, 12:05 AM

I dig'em

............... Larger version of above photo.

tex45acp · August 26, 2009, 03:20 PM

Actually there are several good reasons to have a 1911 in 9mm.

First, it is substantially cheaper to shoot that the 45acp. That allows a bunch more practice and thus more familiarity with the platform.

Second, those who are recoil sensitive, the 1911 in 9mm makes sense, especially if they truly like the 1911 gun platform.

I have two of them, I am 6'6" and 300lbs and I am not sensitive to recoil and definately do not "Squat to pee".

I bought my Para Ordnance LTC in 9mm because it is the same size and configuration as my 45acp Wilson Combat Professional, and I can use the same holster when practicing my draws from concealment and, as I stated above, shoot many more times, constantly retraining my muscle memory. Teaching someone to shoot a 1911, I have found that a lesser recoiling gun shortens the learning curve. I have taught about a dozen men and women to shoot the 1911 with this gun. Most shoot or carry one in 45 today. The rest either found one in 9mm or went to another platform all together.

I also have a Springfield Loaded target which, other than my Wilson, which cost three times as much, is the most accurate gun I own. I love to use it for small game hunting on cottontails and squirrels.

BigJimP · August 26, 2009, 03:43 PM

I have a number of 1911's in .45 acp / and 9mm - and in a 9mm its a perfect range gun / practice gun - especially since my primary carry gun is a 1911 in .45 acp.

Wilson Combat is my personal preference / the Protector all stainelss in 9mm - 5" barrel - is one of the better guns I own.

I also have a Kimber Tactical Pro II model, 4", in 9mm that's a good training gun for young shooters ( light alloy frame, etc ) / and I have a Les Baer monolith model, 5", in 9mm that's a pretty good gun now that I have it broken in / but hands down my Wilson in 9mm is a better gun.

I recommend the Wilson combat 9mm mags by the way / 10 round mags - they're holding up real well - and I've been running them for several months.

August 24, 2009, 08:46 PM	#1
DanThaMan Junior member Join Date: February 28, 2009 Location: IL Posts: 153	1911 Platform 9mm? I am relatively new to 1911's, and looove the way they handle and shoot. They so sooo darn smooth firing the big 45 acp... i expected a sore wrist and was pleasantly surprised when I first first one. I was just wondering, if the hefty steel 1911 platform is smooth with the 45 acp, i can't imagine how smooth it owuld be in 9mm; I have seen a few in 9mm too. So for those of you who have shot or own a 9mm 1911... just how smooth and accurate are they?

August 24, 2009, 09:23 PM	#3
TRguy Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2008 Location: Concord, NC Posts: 682	Heck, this says it all....... 1911 9mm? Why? I think if you buy a 1911 9mm you get a gift certificate for a free dress at Talbots. __________________ Two is One, One is None

August 24, 2009, 10:15 PM	#4
greyson97 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,284	box of 50 9mm rounds: $9 at wally world box of 50 .45 caliber rounds: unavailable at wally world, found some at academy for $19 i dont think paper will know the difference between being shot by a 45 over a 9. your wrist and most importantly, your wallet will. yes. i looked at the bullets head on, and i definetly do not want to get shot by a .45, but i also don't want to get shot with a SD 9mm HP. if you want the look and feel of a 1911, and the economy of shooting a 9mm, go for it. I am currently waiting for taurus to ship their 1911b-9 __________________ "Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe, maybe. I've yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet." -Heavy si vis pacem, para bellum

August 24, 2009, 10:42 PM	#5
Skan21 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 463	There are different and cheaper ways to shoot a 9mm. My XD(M) 9 handles just like my loaded Springer 1911. And it was much cheaper. $575 for my 9, and $800 for my 1911. If ya got the money to waste, cool. But if you don't, cheap polymer that shoots just as good, IMO, is good too. __________________ "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."- Robert Heinlein Some of you guys need to trade in a few of those Safe Queens and see if you can get a good deal on a Sense of Humor.- Me

August 24, 2009, 11:22 PM	#6
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Much as it pains me to admit it, my ParaUSA LTC9 has been flawless. Given the difference in cost between 9x19 and .45ACP, it has seen a lot more usage than my 1911's in the more traditional chambering, to the point of being my main gun for bowling pin shooting and more or less living in my range bag to be taken to the range every weekend for skill drills. Contrary to the opinions of the second respondent in this thread, it did not come with any gift certificates to a clothing store, but then unlike him I am fairly confident in my gender and don't look to bolster it through my choice of pistols. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

August 24, 2009, 09:18 PM	#2
THEZACHARIAS Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Location: Louisiana Posts: 537	Not too terribly different from the .45 to be honest. Lighter recoil, same quality trigger. Nice overall package, unless you have a bunch of old .45 single stack magazines and are too cheap to buy new ones in 9mm (ahem... oh wait, that was in reference to myself ).

August 24, 2009, 11:37 PM	#7
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	You know, I was debating on removing that pic...until you came along, Tamara. A gut check is deservingly in order. __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

August 24, 2009, 11:52 PM	#8
robctwo Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2002 Location: Albany, Oregon Posts: 644	Les Baer PII .45 1.5" guarantee Les Baer PII 9mm I had some extractor issues with the 9mm when new, fixed by a local smith. I shoot the 9mm for speed steel and the .45 for bowling pins. I don't wear a dress, but I've been thinking of a kilt, regimental

August 25, 2009, 09:45 AM	#9
TRguy Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2008 Location: Concord, NC Posts: 682	Appreciate you being able to see the humor in my post Tamara. Some people get too worked up over a little injected humor in forums. I am quite confident in my gender, so much so I shoot my G19 and PX4 interchangeably in IDPA SSP regularly. Even been known to pull out the the 1911 single stack para and shoot CDP on that rare occasion I may be feeling gender deficient. But I am in agreement also with cheaper alternatives to shooting with 9mm. Some plastic fantastic drink of choice (M&P, Glock, XD, PX4,.....)might work better for OP than dropping extra nickels on 9mm 1911 platform. But beauty of the good ole USA (For NOW) is you have choice. JMB had it right with the 1911 in 45 (well I do like the .38 Super too). If he meant for it to be in 9mm he would have designed a gun like the Browning Hi-Power. Oh wait, he did. __________________ Two is One, One is None

August 25, 2009, 10:13 AM	#11
critter44 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2000 Posts: 247	Funny you should mention this! I just had my local 'smith build me one on an Essex frame & slide, Cart (or is it Kart?) barrel with Wilson innerds. It is the slickest, sweetest shootin', easiest kickin' 1911 I've ever fired. Accuracy is really, REALLY good! Don't listen to the folks who say it is cheaper to shoot than a .45 though. Why? Cause you'll shoot it 5X more than the .45 if you don't watch it!

August 25, 2009, 10:37 AM	#12
greyson97 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,284	if for the same money i can shoot something 5x more, thatd put a big on my face __________________ "Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe, maybe. I've yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet." -Heavy si vis pacem, para bellum

August 25, 2009, 11:20 AM	#14
win-lose Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2009 Posts: 509	I have a colt series 80 9mm 1911. It runs great and is accurate. I bought it to add a 9mm to my collection and 1911's are the only bottom feeders that I seem to like. Unfortunately, for me it doesn't point as naturally as my .45 1911. I much prefer a straight back grip frame of my S&W 1911. The colt has a curved back grip frame that really throws me off. I kept it for my wife, but it turns out that the grip frame is too big for her. Looks like it will be going up for sale. I'm really ok with this as I want to reduce the # of calibers I have anyway.

August 25, 2009, 11:40 AM	#15
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Swapping out the mainspring housing (curved back grip frame) is a five-minute job. People with small hands tend to prefer the flat housing. My "sub caliber" 1911 is a .38 Super loaded to wimpy levels (130gr@1000fps) for competition. It is a real pleasure to shoot, although other than to comply with the specifics of a rule book, I'm not sure what it's for? I already have .45s and a 10mm if something needs a hurt put on it. I'm angling to get a 9mm, but will probably convert it to 9x23 and keep the old barrel so I can shoot squirrels with cheap ammo if necessary.

August 25, 2009, 12:41 PM	#16
Wleoff Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2008 Location: North AL Posts: 380	I shot my friends S&W 1911 in 9mm with 5" barrel and it's one of the most accurate 1911s that I've ever shot. I've got one on order. A little less than $1100, if I remember right. I never considered a 1911 in 9mm until I shot this gun.

August 25, 2009, 02:00 PM	#17
rsxr22 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Youngstown, OH Posts: 1,825	1911 9mm's are great!!! Yes the .45 is what the gun was designed around, but shooting a 9mm 1911 says nothing of gender, i know it was a joke but i have heard it being seriously said other places. Most competitions shooter's are shooting 9mm or .38 Super in matches and they are some of the best shots in the world. Could they do the same with a .45? Probably pretty close, but i think speed would suffer a small amount because of the felt recoil. Then again I've watched Sevigny shoot a .45 and he made it look like he was shooting a .22. It is ridiculous!! I know there guns are tweaked and they are using lighter loads, but i am a strong guy and see not even a speckle of comparison between pro shooters and I. Then again i have never watched myself shoot so i am just speculating. Im not talking about accuracy i know i dont compare there but control of the gun is more what im speaking of

August 25, 2009, 04:20 PM	#18
j28s Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 32	I have an STI Trojan 5 9mm and a Kimber Grand Raptor .45. Yes, the .45 does have more kick and ft lbs of force. If you need a gun to shot an intruder that happens to have a bulletproof vest on, well, you'll want a .45 vs. a 9mm. Then again, if you are a good shot just put 10 rounds of 9mm Winchester Ranger +P+, and you'll have the same force as a standard .45 ACP round. Depends on what you want the 1911 for... STI 9mm has a 10 round mag, .45 has a 8 round mag. if you want to shoot USPSA single stack and you can hit the A zone, then get a 9mm, you'll have two extra rounds in the mag which will help, but you'll be shooting minor. 1911 guns in general shoot very accurate in my opinion compared to polymer guns. I can shoot 5 to 6 rounds pretty much through the same hole at 10 yards with my 9mm using OTS (off the shelf) ammo. I can put 4 to 5 rounds through the same hole at 10 yards with my .45 using OTS ammo. At 25 yards slow fire, both shoot a golfball sized pattern. Bottomline, both are damn accurate. If you shoot a lot, I would go with the 9mm. It is a hell of a lot cheaper to shoot...($12/box vs $16/box)...adds up if you shoot 300 rounds a week at 200 rounds at a match each week...that's about 13 extra boxes of 9mm in a month...

August 25, 2009, 06:04 PM	#20
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	"If you shoot a lot, I would go with the 9mm. It is a hell of a lot cheaper to shoot...($12/box vs $16/box)...adds up if you shoot 300 rounds a week at 200 rounds at a match each week." And now you know why God intended shooters to also be reloaders. In the week or two before the Steel Challenge match of 1982, Chip McCormick shot some 4,000 rounds of practice. John Shaw said he'd done about 10,000. (At that time, Chip did not have a sponsor. John did.)

August 25, 2009, 06:45 PM	#21
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	I have a Colt 9mm Commander and it's nice to shoot on the range. Not flawless, but I don't care because I don't carry it. For that, I'll stick with the .45.

August 25, 2009, 08:07 PM	#22
stevieboy Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2008 Posts: 1,695	I'm primarily a revolver guy and I'm a latecomer to the delights of 1911 ownership. I love mine (S & W 1911) and have given a lot of thought to adding a 9 to the collection. From everything I've read it makes a lot of sense, especially due to the much lower cost of 9mm ammo vs. 45acp. Maybe, next year

August 26, 2009, 12:05 AM	#23
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	I dig'em ............... Larger version of above photo. ............... Larger version of above photo. __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

August 26, 2009, 03:20 PM	#24
tex45acp Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2005 Location: The Great State of Texas Posts: 1,032	Actually there are several good reasons to have a 1911 in 9mm. First, it is substantially cheaper to shoot that the 45acp. That allows a bunch more practice and thus more familiarity with the platform. Second, those who are recoil sensitive, the 1911 in 9mm makes sense, especially if they truly like the 1911 gun platform. I have two of them, I am 6'6" and 300lbs and I am not sensitive to recoil and definately do not "Squat to pee". I bought my Para Ordnance LTC in 9mm because it is the same size and configuration as my 45acp Wilson Combat Professional, and I can use the same holster when practicing my draws from concealment and, as I stated above, shoot many more times, constantly retraining my muscle memory. Teaching someone to shoot a 1911, I have found that a lesser recoiling gun shortens the learning curve. I have taught about a dozen men and women to shoot the 1911 with this gun. Most shoot or carry one in 45 today. The rest either found one in 9mm or went to another platform all together. I also have a Springfield Loaded target which, other than my Wilson, which cost three times as much, is the most accurate gun I own. I love to use it for small game hunting on cottontails and squirrels. __________________ “All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.“

August 26, 2009, 03:43 PM	#25
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I have a number of 1911's in .45 acp / and 9mm - and in a 9mm its a perfect range gun / practice gun - especially since my primary carry gun is a 1911 in .45 acp. Wilson Combat is my personal preference / the Protector all stainelss in 9mm - 5" barrel - is one of the better guns I own. I also have a Kimber Tactical Pro II model, 4", in 9mm that's a good training gun for young shooters ( light alloy frame, etc ) / and I have a Les Baer monolith model, 5", in 9mm that's a pretty good gun now that I have it broken in / but hands down my Wilson in 9mm is a better gun. I recommend the Wilson combat 9mm mags by the way / 10 round mags - they're holding up real well - and I've been running them for several months.