38 special Buff Bore For selfdefense?

robert1811 · September 23, 2013, 03:10 AM

Who here (if anyone) carries Buffalo bores 158 grain heavy load. The one im looking at is

Heavy .38 Special +P Ammo - 158 gr. L.S.W.C.H.P. --G.C. (1,000fps/M.E. 351 ft.lbs.

I was wondering if the 38 could move fast enough to merit going with a HP. Or should you just stick with a simple wad cutter and add some +P to it? Is anyone afarid of a 38 really overpenetrating?

I also wanted to know if anyone has any experince with the recoil of shooting this bad boy out of a 642 or some comparable Airweight snub.

Please let me know what you think. What your experience is and what you like to load.

skoro · September 23, 2013, 07:16 AM

I have both my HD revolvers stoked with that BB load. Very stout stuff and
I have no doubt about how effective it would be. It's not something I'd carry in my pocket snub, though. That's just me.

YMMV

lowercase · September 23, 2013, 07:56 AM

I have that exact ammo in my home defense weapon, a Model 10 with 4" heavy barrel.

I wouldn't carry it in my 642, though.

Buffalo Bore makes a different round that is better suited to a 642. It is standard pressure, low flash, and optimized for short barrels.

Here is a link to the ammo:
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=110

Here's a similar load, but with a hard cast wadcutter bullet. I like the look of this stuff and will probably get some.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=111

BigD_in_FL · September 23, 2013, 08:39 AM

There is NO way I am shooting anything stouter than the "normal" +p ammo in my 642 - that is harsh enough and personally, I doubt anything stouter is necessary

ClydeFrog · September 23, 2013, 11:45 AM

I agree with post #3.
The Buffalo Bore 158gr SWC-HP lead +P is great for defense but Id agree that the low flash, copper .38spl +P HP for snubs/J frames.
Id also suggest the Corbon DPX, the MagSafe SWAT, the Speer Gold Dot 135gr JHP +P, Winchester PDX1 load.

Clyde

Shadi Khalil · September 23, 2013, 12:55 PM

If it suits some ones needs, sure why not. I carried/shot Underwoods 125gr +P gold dots for quite some time and they are as stout, if not more so, than the BB 158gr. Btw, I was using them in my S&W 637 which is currently at S&W being destroyed due to a broken stud.

When I get my replacement (which in fact is a), I won't be shooting nearly as many super stout loads out of it. I'd like this one to last.

Check this video out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvVN...e_gdata_player

It might answer some of your questions.

JERRYS. · September 23, 2013, 02:10 PM

I have found that the Remington LHP 158gr. +p expands reliably from my J frames when fired into water jugs. the Remington lead is apparently softer than the Winchester or federal brands which explains why it expands from a short bbl. I do not have a chronograph to see velocities but they feel plenty stout.

considering the cost im not sure the BB load gives you anything more than the Remington load.

PawPaw · September 23, 2013, 02:38 PM

I carry the Federal Ny-Clad in my J-frame.

My son carries Hornady Critical Defense in his J-frame.

There is lots of good ammo being made today. Finding it in the stores is another problem entirely.

ClydeFrog · September 23, 2013, 04:37 PM

If you have the $ & space, there are more & more online sources that carry decent .38spl defense rounds to choose from.

Clyde
www.sgammo.com www.shopcorbon.com www.grafs.com www.midwayusa.com www.luckygunner.com www.sportsmansguide.com www.cabelas.com www.buffalobore.com www.brownells.com

robert1811 · September 23, 2013, 05:17 PM

Excellent thanks guys!

Super Sneaky Steve · September 23, 2013, 07:52 PM

I shot that BB load out of my 6" gun and got 1157fps 469ft/lbs.

Jim March · September 23, 2013, 08:02 PM

Quote:

I shot that BB load out of my 6" gun and got 1157fps 469ft/lbs.

That matches the energy levels of Winchester's 145gr Silvertip - in 357Magnum.

It also blows the doors off most 9mm+P loads, and approaches the raw power of some of the lower-end 40S&W rounds.

Tim Sundles is a wildman but his loads are NOT reported as blowing up guns. Dude knows what he's doing. Reminds me, I have to get some of his stuff in 9mm+P or +P+ soon.

Deaf Smith · September 23, 2013, 08:51 PM

Robert,

I do use that Buffalo Bore load.

I personally chronoed the 158gr LSWHP out of my Ruger Speed Six at 1100 fps.

Yes that's Eleven hundred feet per second from a 2 3/4 inch barrel.

I higly recommend Buffalo Bore ammo.

I currently use their 'low flash short barrel' 125 gr DPX .357 magnum load in my S&W 2 1/2 inch 640-1 .357 Magnum. Chronos out at 1220 from that little barrel and I can shoot it one handed with good control rapid fire.

Deaf

Stukaman · September 23, 2013, 10:25 PM

Have some of the heavy .357 loaded in my Model 28 right now nice stout load makes a hell of a racket out of my Model 19 snubby lol

Dave T · September 26, 2013, 12:30 PM

Although I prefer to carry a 45 ACP revolver, when I carry a 38/357 the BB Heavy +P load is what I carry. It duplicates the old 38/44 load from the 1930s, the grandfather of the 357 Magnum.

Dave

roaddog28 · September 27, 2013, 05:25 PM

BB is the hottest 38+P your can buy from any ammo maker. A person would have to reload to do better.
I use the 158 gr in my Ruger Police Service Six 4 inch, Ruger SP101 4 inch and my S&W model 10-7 4 inch. I don't see a need to use any 357 magnum for defense when a person can buy BB.

Howard

camjr · September 28, 2013, 06:56 PM

I've tried it, and promptly switched to the other gold standard defense load out of my 642 snub: Speer Gold Dot 135gr +p short barrel loads. Much easier for me to get subsequent shots on target.

SaxonPig · September 29, 2013, 10:07 AM

I still like a 125 JHP in the 38 for SD. Mine are loaded to 1,100 FPS (clocked from a 2" barrel S&W) and have worked well in my J frame guns.

Kreyzhorse · September 29, 2013, 02:21 PM

It's gonna be snappy in an Airweight but it will work fine as a self defense round.

KyJim · September 30, 2013, 07:03 PM

I think the Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P loads for short barrels is the gold standard for snubbies that can handle +P loads. My second choice is the Remington 158 gr. +P LSWCHP. As another poster noted, it has softer lead than some of the other similar loadings. I would think the Buffalo Bore lead loads would perform well.

However, I personally would not use any of BB's jacketed hollow point or semi-jacketed hollow points without confirmation about the type of bullet they are using. In the past they have switched from Speer Gold Dots (great) to Speer uni-core bonded (not GDs but okay) to Montana Gold bonded hollow points (not so good). I know they are at the mercy of the market in what bullets they can use, but the bullet makes a big difference in terminal ballistics.

redlevel42 · October 4, 2013, 11:06 AM

I carry the load referenced in the OP in my steel frame j-frame S&Ws. Fired from a Model 60 or a Model 36, the load, to me at least, isn't nearly as punishing as a full-house .357 in a 2.5 inch Model 19. The load shoots to point of aim at 10-12 feet from my 2" and 3" j-frames. Both published velocities from BB and from a couple of other independent sources that I trust puts velocity at just over 1000 fps from the 2" guns, and 1100 fps from the 3" guns. To me, that load makes .38 special a very viable self defense load. Game changer, in other words.

Sheikyourbootie · October 4, 2013, 11:49 AM

Here are the results I got firing into shredded rubber mulch...yeah, I know it's not ballistics gel, but I can cheaply compare bullets...and re-melt the lead for my own cast bullets.

I have switched to the Federal 140 grain Barnes out of my .357 snub. Here is the video of me testing two .380 rounds, and since I had enough of a block of gel...I tested the Barnes in a 357 snub...penetrated all 17" of gel, AND 1" of bone, exploding the bone throughout the wound channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l6vrb4Z-Lk

Nick_C_S · October 4, 2013, 09:32 PM

I personally would find that BB round to be a bit "kickish" through an lightweight for my liking.

I am not a fan of 158g bullets in a 38 snub - they need more pressure, or at least more barrel to get moving fast enough.

My choice would be (and is) Speer's 135g GDHP SB (short barrel). Potent round, and low flash.

JERRYS. · October 4, 2013, 09:42 PM

has there been any real improvement over the Remington 158gr. LHP +p? all the ballistic test data seems to show that different loads do the same thing.

what is doing this same job for less money? nothing that I see.

what is doing the same job with less recoil? nothing that I see.

the Remington "FBI" load just plain works even in snubbies.

I do not work for Remington.

Bezoar · October 4, 2013, 10:34 PM

well the worry is not about overpenetration at all. its about sufficient penetration of a projectile when it expands. Some loads perform better then others when fully expanded.

September 23, 2013, 03:10 AM	#1
robert1811 Member Join Date: November 10, 2012 Posts: 71	38 special Buff Bore For selfdefense? Who here (if anyone) carries Buffalo bores 158 grain heavy load. The one im looking at is Heavy .38 Special +P Ammo - 158 gr. L.S.W.C.H.P. --G.C. (1,000fps/M.E. 351 ft.lbs. I was wondering if the 38 could move fast enough to merit going with a HP. Or should you just stick with a simple wad cutter and add some +P to it? Is anyone afarid of a 38 really overpenetrating? I also wanted to know if anyone has any experince with the recoil of shooting this bad boy out of a 642 or some comparable Airweight snub. Please let me know what you think. What your experience is and what you like to load.

September 23, 2013, 11:45 AM	#5
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	+1 on post #3.... I agree with post #3. The Buffalo Bore 158gr SWC-HP lead +P is great for defense but Id agree that the low flash, copper .38spl +P HP for snubs/J frames. Id also suggest the Corbon DPX, the MagSafe SWAT, the Speer Gold Dot 135gr JHP +P, Winchester PDX1 load. Clyde

September 23, 2013, 12:55 PM	#6
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	Re: 38 special Buff Bore For selfdefense? If it suits some ones needs, sure why not. I carried/shot Underwoods 125gr +P gold dots for quite some time and they are as stout, if not more so, than the BB 158gr. Btw, I was using them in my S&W 637 which is currently at S&W being destroyed due to a broken stud. When I get my replacement (which in fact is a), I won't be shooting nearly as many super stout loads out of it. I'd like this one to last. Check this video out... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvVN...e_gdata_player It might answer some of your questions.

September 23, 2013, 02:38 PM	#8
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	I carry the Federal Ny-Clad in my J-frame. My son carries Hornady Critical Defense in his J-frame. There is lots of good ammo being made today. Finding it in the stores is another problem entirely. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

September 23, 2013, 04:37 PM	#9
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	True, but.... If you have the $ & space, there are more & more online sources that carry decent .38spl defense rounds to choose from. Clyde www.sgammo.com www.shopcorbon.com www.grafs.com www.midwayusa.com www.luckygunner.com www.sportsmansguide.com www.cabelas.com www.buffalobore.com www.brownells.com

September 23, 2013, 07:16 AM	#2
skoro Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 1,952	I have both my HD revolvers stoked with that BB load. Very stout stuff and I have no doubt about how effective it would be. It's not something I'd carry in my pocket snub, though. That's just me. YMMV

September 23, 2013, 07:56 AM	#3
lowercase Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2012 Posts: 287	I have that exact ammo in my home defense weapon, a Model 10 with 4" heavy barrel. I wouldn't carry it in my 642, though. Buffalo Bore makes a different round that is better suited to a 642. It is standard pressure, low flash, and optimized for short barrels. Here is a link to the ammo: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=110 Here's a similar load, but with a hard cast wadcutter bullet. I like the look of this stuff and will probably get some. https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=111 Last edited by lowercase; September 23, 2013 at 08:05 AM.

September 23, 2013, 08:39 AM	#4
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	There is NO way I am shooting anything stouter than the "normal" +p ammo in my 642 - that is harsh enough and personally, I doubt anything stouter is necessary

September 23, 2013, 02:10 PM	#7
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	I have found that the Remington LHP 158gr. +p expands reliably from my J frames when fired into water jugs. the Remington lead is apparently softer than the Winchester or federal brands which explains why it expands from a short bbl. I do not have a chronograph to see velocities but they feel plenty stout. considering the cost im not sure the BB load gives you anything more than the Remington load.

September 23, 2013, 05:17 PM	#10
robert1811 Member Join Date: November 10, 2012 Posts: 71	Excellent thanks guys!

September 23, 2013, 07:52 PM	#11
Super Sneaky Steve Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,250	I shot that BB load out of my 6" gun and got 1157fps 469ft/lbs.

September 23, 2013, 08:51 PM	#13
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	Robert, I do use that Buffalo Bore load. I personally chronoed the 158gr LSWHP out of my Ruger Speed Six at 1100 fps. Yes that's Eleven hundred feet per second from a 2 3/4 inch barrel. I higly recommend Buffalo Bore ammo. I currently use their 'low flash short barrel' 125 gr DPX .357 magnum load in my S&W 2 1/2 inch 640-1 .357 Magnum. Chronos out at 1220 from that little barrel and I can shoot it one handed with good control rapid fire. Deaf __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

September 23, 2013, 10:25 PM	#14
Stukaman Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2010 Posts: 101	Have some of the heavy .357 loaded in my Model 28 right now nice stout load makes a hell of a racket out of my Model 19 snubby lol

September 26, 2013, 12:30 PM	#15
Dave T Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2000 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 1,456	Although I prefer to carry a 45 ACP revolver, when I carry a 38/357 the BB Heavy +P load is what I carry. It duplicates the old 38/44 load from the 1930s, the grandfather of the 357 Magnum. Dave __________________ RSVN '69-'71 PCSD Ret

September 27, 2013, 05:25 PM	#16
roaddog28 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2009 Location: Escondido, CA Posts: 961	BB is the hottest 38+P your can buy from any ammo maker. A person would have to reload to do better. I use the 158 gr in my Ruger Police Service Six 4 inch, Ruger SP101 4 inch and my S&W model 10-7 4 inch. I don't see a need to use any 357 magnum for defense when a person can buy BB. Howard

September 28, 2013, 06:56 PM	#17
camjr Junior Member Join Date: December 23, 2007 Location: NTX Posts: 9	I've tried it, and promptly switched to the other gold standard defense load out of my 642 snub: Speer Gold Dot 135gr +p short barrel loads. Much easier for me to get subsequent shots on target.

September 29, 2013, 10:07 AM	#18
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	I still like a 125 JHP in the 38 for SD. Mine are loaded to 1,100 FPS (clocked from a 2" barrel S&W) and have worked well in my J frame guns.

September 29, 2013, 02:21 PM	#19
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	It's gonna be snappy in an Airweight but it will work fine as a self defense round. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

September 30, 2013, 07:03 PM	#20
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	I think the Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P loads for short barrels is the gold standard for snubbies that can handle +P loads. My second choice is the Remington 158 gr. +P LSWCHP. As another poster noted, it has softer lead than some of the other similar loadings. I would think the Buffalo Bore lead loads would perform well. However, I personally would not use any of BB's jacketed hollow point or semi-jacketed hollow points without confirmation about the type of bullet they are using. In the past they have switched from Speer Gold Dots (great) to Speer uni-core bonded (not GDs but okay) to Montana Gold bonded hollow points (not so good). I know they are at the mercy of the market in what bullets they can use, but the bullet makes a big difference in terminal ballistics.

October 4, 2013, 11:06 AM	#21
redlevel42 Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2007 Location: South Georgia Posts: 310	I carry the load referenced in the OP in my steel frame j-frame S&Ws. Fired from a Model 60 or a Model 36, the load, to me at least, isn't nearly as punishing as a full-house .357 in a 2.5 inch Model 19. The load shoots to point of aim at 10-12 feet from my 2" and 3" j-frames. Both published velocities from BB and from a couple of other independent sources that I trust puts velocity at just over 1000 fps from the 2" guns, and 1100 fps from the 3" guns. To me, that load makes .38 special a very viable self defense load. Game changer, in other words. __________________ Georgia on My Mind

October 4, 2013, 11:49 AM	#22
Sheikyourbootie Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2010 Posts: 379	Here are the results I got firing into shredded rubber mulch...yeah, I know it's not ballistics gel, but I can cheaply compare bullets...and re-melt the lead for my own cast bullets. I have switched to the Federal 140 grain Barnes out of my .357 snub. Here is the video of me testing two .380 rounds, and since I had enough of a block of gel...I tested the Barnes in a 357 snub...penetrated all 17" of gel, AND 1" of bone, exploding the bone throughout the wound channel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l6vrb4Z-Lk

October 4, 2013, 09:32 PM	#23
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	I personally would find that BB round to be a bit "kickish" through an lightweight for my liking. I am not a fan of 158g bullets in a 38 snub - they need more pressure, or at least more barrel to get moving fast enough. My choice would be (and is) Speer's 135g GDHP SB (short barrel). Potent round, and low flash. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

October 4, 2013, 09:42 PM	#24
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	has there been any real improvement over the Remington 158gr. LHP +p? all the ballistic test data seems to show that different loads do the same thing. what is doing this same job for less money? nothing that I see. what is doing the same job with less recoil? nothing that I see. the Remington "FBI" load just plain works even in snubbies. I do not work for Remington.

October 4, 2013, 10:34 PM	#25
Bezoar Junior member Join Date: October 19, 2004 Location: michigan Posts: 578	well the worry is not about overpenetration at all. its about sufficient penetration of a projectile when it expands. Some loads perform better then others when fully expanded.