5 shots in under 1/2 second??

Sisco · August 31, 2002, 02:39 PM

Winchesters ads for the Super X2 claim that
"During a recent test for Front Sight magazine, the Winchester Super X2 shotgun fired five shells in just over 1/2 of a second - .51 seconds to be exact"
This came up at the local gunshop this morning. While those present that had handled the X2 all agreed that it's a great gun, no one there (even the professional tall-tale tellers) could believe that anyone could pull and release the trigger five times that quickly. Was the test gun one modified for full auto? Winchester blowing smoke?

CWL · August 31, 2002, 02:48 PM

I'd believe it, you certainly can do it with a wheeliegun or semiauto pistol as well.

I've seen a Benelli shotgun demo where they put out all 5 shots before the first shell hit the ground.

Jody Hudson · August 31, 2002, 02:53 PM

I've put every shell from my Benelli Super 90 in the air at once... The new Beretta Extreema is even faster... These guns sound like very fast FULL AUTO when fired fast.

NOW... the rest of the deal is... WHO can stay on target and do anything meaningful other than close up home defense with such a rate of fire. It's fun, granted, but it doesn't get the doves.

HSMITH · August 31, 2002, 02:56 PM

If you do the math on the cyclic rate of fire it is just under 600 rounds per minute, not all that fast compared to other guns. That is just over what the cylic rate of an M60 machine gun is, and the 60 seems pretty slow when firing it. There are people out there that can pull the trigger than fast, without a doubt. It is also possible to bump fire the X2, AMHIK, so that may be how the test was conducted. I have a 3.5" X2, and I do not feel that mine cycles that fast although I have nothing to back that up. The 3" X2 will have a shorter stroke of the bolt, so it could have a significantly faster cyclic rate than mine. As a rule I don't doubt claims like this one openly unless I can disprove them. Sooner or later I will get my hands on a 3" X2 and will bump fire it to get a better idea, and an ordinary shot timer will tell the tale in black and white.

C.R.Sam · August 31, 2002, 05:07 PM

Practice²
How bout the gents that break 5 to 8 clays thrown at the same time...
With a pump.

Or the few who will break both birds of a trap house double...
With a single shot gun. Pullbangreloadbang.

Fast AND well aimed shots.

Sam

Sisco · August 31, 2002, 06:04 PM

Well, I'm not from Missouri but I'd have to see it to believe it.

ACP230 · August 31, 2002, 07:40 PM

See if you can find a video of a gentleman called Tom Knapp. He does some nice quick work with Benelli shotguns.

KSFreeman · August 31, 2002, 08:14 PM

Sure, can be done, even with a slide-action. Uncle Herb was famous for doing the trick with the M12 for years.

But the questions remains--why? You are responsible for each pellet/buckshot. Other than gun rags and other GSCs who would be irresponsible enough to put unsighted rounds down range?

Sisco · August 31, 2002, 08:15 PM

I've seen Knapp, he's fast but 1/2 second? Count aloud: one thousand one. Divide that by two. Still got to see it to believe it, and I want to see it with a gun off the shelf.

guitar7272 · August 31, 2002, 09:14 PM

Hey guys,

Ive been browsing TFL for a while, but this is the first time I'm posting. I found some videos of Tom Knapp. Although they arent the greatest quality, they should give you an idea.

http://www.sportshooter.com/features/tom_knapp.htm

Scott

Al Thompson · August 31, 2002, 09:34 PM

Hi guitar7272, welcome to TFL! Thanks for the link!

Zorro · August 31, 2002, 10:17 PM

NOT A PROBLEM!

Winchester Model 12!

Just press the trigger and work the slide FAST AS HELL!

C.R.Sam · September 1, 2002, 12:26 AM

Welcome Guitar...
Thanks for the link.

Sam

BAD_KARMA · September 1, 2002, 08:51 PM

Here is the article they base the ad on. It sounds on the up and up to me. Notice the high marks the a-5 gets, some designs are timeless.

Correia · September 3, 2002, 10:54 PM

If it is possible to bump fire the X2 I see no reason why this isn't doable.

From KSFreeman: "But the questions remains--why? You are responsible for each pellet/buckshot. Other than gun rags and other GSCs who would be irresponsible enough to put unsighted rounds down range?"

KS, don't you guys ever do anything just for FUN?

I can shoot at rocks 300 yards away with my 1911, don't mean I'll ever do it in real life either.

Maybe it is a question of range safety, but then again you could shoot a 155mm atomic canon at my range with no problem.

Seriously though, in 3 gunning competitive circles the X2 is getting a really good reputation.

C.R.Sam · September 3, 2002, 11:30 PM

KS...
Some folks can hit what they want to while doin "fast n fancy" shootin.

Only unsafe if one is just blowin out ammo everywhichway.

Sam

harrydog · September 5, 2002, 03:58 PM

Tom Knapp threw 9 clays into the air at once, by hand, and broke each one with an individual shot from a Benelli M1 before any of them hit the ground. Now that's impressive. Perhaps more impressive, he did the same thing with 8 clays, using a Benelli pump action!

9x45 · September 5, 2002, 04:57 PM

From http://www.winchester-guns.com/sx2_practical.htm

"With the timer running you let loose of five rounds as fast as you can, counting the first shot as zero and totaling the remaining four split intervals. My best to date has been 56 hundredths. David amazed the small gathering at a 3 gun match in Winchester, Idaho by firing those five shots in 51 hundredths! The splits were three .13's and one .12."

Thats some pretty fast trigger pulling...

BigG · September 6, 2002, 10:56 AM

The Benelli guy (or maybe a Beretta - same gun) did a demonstration at our range. He fired about seven shots and hit clay birds that he threw up with his left hand.

Br-a-a-a-a-a-p!

HKguy9 · September 6, 2002, 05:09 PM

Edited: Oops meant to start a new thread.

PWK · September 6, 2002, 07:27 PM

Are you serious skunk? If you only had 3 or 4 posts such a post would be excuseable but with over 1000 me thinks you've had one too many of something that effects your brain

On the subject of this thread, I have a Browning Gold with a 28" barrel so next time I go to the gun club I think I'll give this speed shooting a try.

KSFreeman · September 6, 2002, 08:04 PM

Correia, well, some of us don't live in the hairy-chested West with canyons and such. I live in gritty, Yankee, urbane environs. If a buckshot pellet whips through a door or window, I may hurt something besides the threat. So closing eyes and emptying gun a la gun rags is not something I even consider.

Of course, if I live in a canyon where I could shoot a 155mm atomic cannon like we had in SEEL Team 37.5 or I lived in an adobe mud hut with 4 foot thick walls, I may reconsider.

JosephBoeckner · September 8, 2002, 12:16 PM

haha..guys..i have some good news , u brought up tom knapp, and i just started coming back to this board to browse a little, and, i noticed the other day (fri) in the outdoor section in the newspaper that Tom Knapp is coming to my sportsman's club here

, i think it'll be worth my time to go out there, since we already watch his videos for different things at the club, and hopefully our shotgun shooting sports program will get something special

August 31, 2002, 02:39 PM	#1
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,558	5 shots in under 1/2 second?? Winchesters ads for the Super X2 claim that "During a recent test for Front Sight magazine, the Winchester Super X2 shotgun fired five shells in just over 1/2 of a second - .51 seconds to be exact" This came up at the local gunshop this morning. While those present that had handled the X2 all agreed that it's a great gun, no one there (even the professional tall-tale tellers) could believe that anyone could pull and release the trigger five times that quickly. Was the test gun one modified for full auto? Winchester blowing smoke? __________________ "I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent http://www.awbansunset.com/awcountdown_sm.gif

August 31, 2002, 02:53 PM	#3
Jody Hudson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Near Rehoboth Beach Delaware Posts: 1,140	I've put every shell from my Benelli Super 90 in the air at once... The new Beretta Extreema is even faster... These guns sound like very fast FULL AUTO when fired fast. NOW... the rest of the deal is... WHO can stay on target and do anything meaningful other than close up home defense with such a rate of fire. It's fun, granted, but it doesn't get the doves. __________________ We help people relocate to Rehoboth Beach Delaware. Our Site: www.Kate-Jody.com

August 31, 2002, 06:04 PM	#6
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,558	Well, I'm not from Missouri but I'd have to see it to believe it. __________________ "I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent http://www.awbansunset.com/awcountdown_sm.gif

August 31, 2002, 07:40 PM	#7
ACP230 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2000 Posts: 708	See if you can find a video of a gentleman called Tom Knapp. He does some nice quick work with Benelli shotguns. __________________ "To disarm the people (is) the best & most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason.

August 31, 2002, 08:14 PM	#8
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Sure, can be done, even with a slide-action. Uncle Herb was famous for doing the trick with the M12 for years. But the questions remains--why? You are responsible for each pellet/buckshot. Other than gun rags and other GSCs who would be irresponsible enough to put unsighted rounds down range? __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

August 31, 2002, 02:48 PM	#2
CWL Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,576	I'd believe it, you certainly can do it with a wheeliegun or semiauto pistol as well. I've seen a Benelli shotgun demo where they put out all 5 shots before the first shell hit the ground.

August 31, 2002, 02:56 PM	#4
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	If you do the math on the cyclic rate of fire it is just under 600 rounds per minute, not all that fast compared to other guns. That is just over what the cylic rate of an M60 machine gun is, and the 60 seems pretty slow when firing it. There are people out there that can pull the trigger than fast, without a doubt. It is also possible to bump fire the X2, AMHIK, so that may be how the test was conducted. I have a 3.5" X2, and I do not feel that mine cycles that fast although I have nothing to back that up. The 3" X2 will have a shorter stroke of the bolt, so it could have a significantly faster cyclic rate than mine. As a rule I don't doubt claims like this one openly unless I can disprove them. Sooner or later I will get my hands on a 3" X2 and will bump fire it to get a better idea, and an ordinary shot timer will tell the tale in black and white.

August 31, 2002, 05:07 PM	#5
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Practice² How bout the gents that break 5 to 8 clays thrown at the same time... With a pump. Or the few who will break both birds of a trap house double... With a single shot gun. Pullbangreloadbang. Fast AND well aimed shots. Sam

August 31, 2002, 08:15 PM	#9
Sisco Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Location: KS Posts: 1,558	I've seen Knapp, he's fast but 1/2 second? Count aloud: one thousand one. Divide that by two. Still got to see it to believe it, and I want to see it with a gun off the shelf. __________________ "I don't mind it when stupid people say stupid things. Stupid people should be encouraged to say stupid things, that way we always know who the stupid people are." ~ Ted Nugent http://www.awbansunset.com/awcountdown_sm.gif

August 31, 2002, 09:14 PM	#10
guitar7272 Junior Member Join Date: August 28, 2002 Posts: 13	Hey guys, Ive been browsing TFL for a while, but this is the first time I'm posting. I found some videos of Tom Knapp. Although they arent the greatest quality, they should give you an idea. http://www.sportshooter.com/features/tom_knapp.htm Scott

August 31, 2002, 09:34 PM	#11
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Hi guitar7272, welcome to TFL! Thanks for the link! __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

August 31, 2002, 10:17 PM	#12
Zorro Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2000 Posts: 1,072	NOT A PROBLEM! Winchester Model 12! Just press the trigger and work the slide FAST AS HELL!

September 1, 2002, 12:26 AM	#13
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Welcome Guitar... Thanks for the link. Sam

September 1, 2002, 08:51 PM	#14
BAD_KARMA Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2000 Posts: 171	http://www.winchester-guns.com/sx2_practical.htm Here is the article they base the ad on. It sounds on the up and up to me. Notice the high marks the a-5 gets, some designs are timeless.

September 3, 2002, 10:54 PM	#15
Correia Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 1998 Location: SLC Utah Posts: 3,740	If it is possible to bump fire the X2 I see no reason why this isn't doable. From KSFreeman: "But the questions remains--why? You are responsible for each pellet/buckshot. Other than gun rags and other GSCs who would be irresponsible enough to put unsighted rounds down range?" KS, don't you guys ever do anything just for FUN? I can shoot at rocks 300 yards away with my 1911, don't mean I'll ever do it in real life either. Maybe it is a question of range safety, but then again you could shoot a 155mm atomic canon at my range with no problem. Seriously though, in 3 gunning competitive circles the X2 is getting a really good reputation.

September 3, 2002, 11:30 PM	#16
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	KS... Some folks can hit what they want to while doin "fast n fancy" shootin. Only unsafe if one is just blowin out ammo everywhichway. Sam

September 5, 2002, 03:58 PM	#17
harrydog Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2000 Posts: 283	Tom Knapp threw 9 clays into the air at once, by hand, and broke each one with an individual shot from a Benelli M1 before any of them hit the ground. Now that's impressive. Perhaps more impressive, he did the same thing with 8 clays, using a Benelli pump action!

September 5, 2002, 04:57 PM	#18
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	From http://www.winchester-guns.com/sx2_practical.htm "With the timer running you let loose of five rounds as fast as you can, counting the first shot as zero and totaling the remaining four split intervals. My best to date has been 56 hundredths. David amazed the small gathering at a 3 gun match in Winchester, Idaho by firing those five shots in 51 hundredths! The splits were three .13's and one .12." Thats some pretty fast trigger pulling...

September 6, 2002, 10:56 AM	#19
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	The Benelli guy (or maybe a Beretta - same gun) did a demonstration at our range. He fired about seven shots and hit clay birds that he threw up with his left hand. Br-a-a-a-a-a-p! __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

September 6, 2002, 05:09 PM	#20
HKguy9 Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2001 Posts: 2,132	Clays--Bbl Length? Edited: Oops meant to start a new thread. __________________ P7M8, VP9 Last edited by HKguy9; September 6, 2002 at 08:17 PM.

September 6, 2002, 07:27 PM	#21
PWK Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2000 Location: Pearland, TX Posts: 297	Are you serious skunk? If you only had 3 or 4 posts such a post would be excuseable but with over 1000 me thinks you've had one too many of something that effects your brain On the subject of this thread, I have a Browning Gold with a 28" barrel so next time I go to the gun club I think I'll give this speed shooting a try. __________________ NRA member, TSRA member

September 6, 2002, 08:04 PM	#22
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Correia, well, some of us don't live in the hairy-chested West with canyons and such. I live in gritty, Yankee, urbane environs. If a buckshot pellet whips through a door or window, I may hurt something besides the threat. So closing eyes and emptying gun a la gun rags is not something I even consider. Of course, if I live in a canyon where I could shoot a 155mm atomic cannon like we had in SEEL Team 37.5 or I lived in an adobe mud hut with 4 foot thick walls, I may reconsider. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

September 8, 2002, 12:16 PM	#23
JosephBoeckner Junior member Join Date: August 25, 2001 Location: KS Posts: 159	haha..guys..i have some good news , u brought up tom knapp, and i just started coming back to this board to browse a little, and, i noticed the other day (fri) in the outdoor section in the newspaper that Tom Knapp is coming to my sportsman's club here , i think it'll be worth my time to go out there, since we already watch his videos for different things at the club, and hopefully our shotgun shooting sports program will get something special

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