help identifying old Walther pistol

jimandruby · August 14, 2009, 08:42 PM

It is marked Waffenfabrik Walther Zella-Mehlis on one side. On the other side is is marked Walther's Patent CAL. 6.35. It has Walther with a 5-digit serial number, then Made in Germany. There is also the two letters "C" and "W" intertwined.

It belongs to an 84-year-old friend who remembers it being brought into his family home when he was a boy or teenager. My friend thinks it was in the 1920s or early 30's at the latest. It was actually stored in an old Colt box, so my friend always thought it was a little Colt until we looked at the markings.

**44 AMP** · August 14, 2009, 09:12 PM

6.35mm is the European name for the .25ACP. These "vest pocket pistols" were made by Walther, Mauser, and a dozen or so other German makers up until the beginning of WWII. Many were sold in the US, and many others made their way here in GI's duffelbags.

Generally these pistols are very well made and well finished (as skilled machinists were common in Germany post WWI, and labor was cheap), and good guns, for what they are.

I'm not an expert on these guns, and so cannot offer any more info on the model you have, sorry. Posting a pic or two would be a great help, as there are some very knowledgeable individuals on the forum.

James K · August 14, 2009, 11:44 PM

Walther made several models in 6.35mm (.25 ACP), including the PP and PPK. Based on the markings and the five digit serial, I suspect the gun is a late Model 5. To obtain an accurate identification and approximate value, we would need some pictures. The "Made in Germany" marking indicates it was one of many Walther pistols imported into the U.S. by Stoeger, not a military "bringback".

All Walthers have significant collector interest; value is based on condition, but those .25 caliber Walthers will run considerably more than similar small pistols of other makes.

Jim

jimandruby · August 19, 2009, 08:47 PM

Thanks for the replies. I am going to try to upload some pictures now. I would be very grateful for further information about the gun, as well as a value.
I appreciate your help very much. If you need more pictures, I have them.
Thanks.

3d0xies · August 19, 2009, 09:37 PM

I'm certainly no expert, but it looks like a Walther Model 2. Check this out. That may be a pretty valuable little pistol you have there.
http://www.whog.org/originals/Walther_Model_2.htm

raftman · August 19, 2009, 10:00 PM

Nah, it's totally worthless, I'll give you $10 for it.

bignz · August 19, 2009, 10:57 PM

Looks like a model 2 to me and in really great shape! Like the website says - $2000plus easy. The C and W intertwined are certainly Carl Walther. There are big time Walther fans out there and this precursor to the PPK would spark significant interest - especially given what looks like near perfect condition for a gun that old.

bignz · August 19, 2009, 10:58 PM

Upon second look... Is the trigger broken? It looks bent upward.

bignz · August 19, 2009, 11:00 PM

Can you post a close-up picture of the mark that is just above the trigger (and what appears to be a matching one on the slide)...

jimandruby · August 20, 2009, 10:23 AM

Thanks everybody for all the info, and the great link. Here are some more pictures. I will try later to get some better close-ups.

3d0xies · August 20, 2009, 12:18 PM

For what it's worth, here's another link with information about the Model 5, which was very similar to the Model 2.
http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/WMod5/wmod5.html

James K · August 20, 2009, 01:57 PM

It is a Model 5, as I guessed. The Model 2 was similar, but was marked "Mod. 2", while the Model 5 had no model marking.

The "crown N" markings are the standard German Nitro proof mark The Model 5 is one of the less common Walthers, as they were made for only two years, 1913-1915.

Retail value would be around $500 to the right buyer.

Jim

jimandruby · August 20, 2009, 09:01 PM

thanks to all for the help, and expertise, and great info links.

guncoach · February 9, 2016, 05:33 PM

what doe the model 5 bring now i just fell into one
in a collection of s&w, savage1917s and 1903 colts..
looks like the Walther may have been a good buy

The 5 was 90-95 cond but what do I know ?

Grant D · February 9, 2016, 06:00 PM

Would that have been made for export?
Why would they have "made in Germany" stamped on it in English?
Just a thought.

tipoc · February 9, 2016, 06:07 PM

As someone else said, it's also one of the guns made for the English speaking market and likely the U.S. The "S" and "F" for safe and fire and the "Made in Germany" markings indicate that.

The original grips in good condition are a plus.

Very well made little gems.

tipoc

James K · February 9, 2016, 07:04 PM

The "Made in Germany" is what is called the Country of Origin (COO) marking and has been required of all products imported into the U.S. since about 1906. Sometimes, it is part of a manufacturer's address, but if not it is usually applied by the importer after brought into the U.S. but before sale.

GCA '68 mandated another form specifically for guns, which includes the name of the importer (may be abbreviated) and the caliber so that military surplus guns can be traced within the U.S. Again, that may be part of the manufacturer's marking; if not, it is added by the importer.

Jim

August 14, 2009, 08:42 PM	#1
jimandruby Junior Member Join Date: August 14, 2009 Posts: 6	help identifying old Walther pistol It is marked Waffenfabrik Walther Zella-Mehlis on one side. On the other side is is marked Walther's Patent CAL. 6.35. It has Walther with a 5-digit serial number, then Made in Germany. There is also the two letters "C" and "W" intertwined. It belongs to an 84-year-old friend who remembers it being brought into his family home when he was a boy or teenager. My friend thinks it was in the 1920s or early 30's at the latest. It was actually stored in an old Colt box, so my friend always thought it was a little Colt until we looked at the markings.

August 14, 2009, 09:12 PM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Vesttaschen pistole 6.35mm is the European name for the .25ACP. These "vest pocket pistols" were made by Walther, Mauser, and a dozen or so other German makers up until the beginning of WWII. Many were sold in the US, and many others made their way here in GI's duffelbags. Generally these pistols are very well made and well finished (as skilled machinists were common in Germany post WWI, and labor was cheap), and good guns, for what they are. I'm not an expert on these guns, and so cannot offer any more info on the model you have, sorry. Posting a pic or two would be a great help, as there are some very knowledgeable individuals on the forum. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 20, 2009, 01:57 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It is a Model 5, as I guessed. The Model 2 was similar, but was marked "Mod. 2", while the Model 5 had no model marking. The "crown N" markings are the standard German Nitro proof mark The Model 5 is one of the less common Walthers, as they were made for only two years, 1913-1915. Retail value would be around $500 to the right buyer. Jim Last edited by James K; August 20, 2009 at 02:05 PM.

August 20, 2009, 09:01 PM	#13
jimandruby Junior Member Join Date: August 14, 2009 Posts: 6	walther model 5 thanks to all for the help, and expertise, and great info links. Last edited by jimandruby; August 21, 2009 at 08:05 AM.

August 14, 2009, 11:44 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Walther made several models in 6.35mm (.25 ACP), including the PP and PPK. Based on the markings and the five digit serial, I suspect the gun is a late Model 5. To obtain an accurate identification and approximate value, we would need some pictures. The "Made in Germany" marking indicates it was one of many Walther pistols imported into the U.S. by Stoeger, not a military "bringback". All Walthers have significant collector interest; value is based on condition, but those .25 caliber Walthers will run considerably more than similar small pistols of other makes. Jim

August 19, 2009, 09:37 PM	#5
3d0xies Junior Member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Posts: 2	I'm certainly no expert, but it looks like a Walther Model 2. Check this out. That may be a pretty valuable little pistol you have there. http://www.whog.org/originals/Walther_Model_2.htm

August 19, 2009, 10:00 PM	#6
raftman Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,890	Nah, it's totally worthless, I'll give you $10 for it.

August 19, 2009, 10:57 PM	#7
bignz Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Location: North Texas Posts: 196	Looks like a model 2 to me and in really great shape! Like the website says - $2000plus easy. The C and W intertwined are certainly Carl Walther. There are big time Walther fans out there and this precursor to the PPK would spark significant interest - especially given what looks like near perfect condition for a gun that old.

August 19, 2009, 10:58 PM	#8
bignz Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Location: North Texas Posts: 196	Upon second look... Is the trigger broken? It looks bent upward.

August 19, 2009, 11:00 PM	#9
bignz Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Location: North Texas Posts: 196	Can you post a close-up picture of the mark that is just above the trigger (and what appears to be a matching one on the slide)...

August 20, 2009, 12:18 PM	#11
3d0xies Junior Member Join Date: April 22, 2009 Posts: 2	For what it's worth, here's another link with information about the Model 5, which was very similar to the Model 2. http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/WMod5/wmod5.html

February 9, 2016, 05:33 PM	#14
guncoach Junior Member Join Date: October 11, 2000 Posts: 10	what doe the model 5 bring now i just fell into one in a collection of s&w, savage1917s and 1903 colts.. looks like the Walther may have been a good buy The 5 was 90-95 cond but what do I know ?

February 9, 2016, 06:00 PM	#15
Grant D Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2011 Location: Brazos County, Texas Posts: 1,038	Would that have been made for export? Why would they have "made in Germany" stamped on it in English? Just a thought.

February 9, 2016, 06:07 PM	#16
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	As someone else said, it's also one of the guns made for the English speaking market and likely the U.S. The "S" and "F" for safe and fire and the "Made in Germany" markings indicate that. The original grips in good condition are a plus. Very well made little gems. tipoc

February 9, 2016, 07:04 PM	#17
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The "Made in Germany" is what is called the Country of Origin (COO) marking and has been required of all products imported into the U.S. since about 1906. Sometimes, it is part of a manufacturer's address, but if not it is usually applied by the importer after brought into the U.S. but before sale. GCA '68 mandated another form specifically for guns, which includes the name of the importer (may be abbreviated) and the caliber so that military surplus guns can be traced within the U.S. Again, that may be part of the manufacturer's marking; if not, it is added by the importer. Jim