|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
June 13, 2008, 10:19 PM | #1 |
Junior member
Join Date: May 10, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,774
|
Hunting Incident Proves .45 Inadequate for Protection
A man who was a member of a Bear hunting party here in Oregon was recently badly mauled by a wounded Black Bear. The bear had initially been shot in its shoulder with a .338 Winchester magnum rifle by a 15 year old boy in the hunting group. Men in the party then trailed the wounded bear in thick brush, armed only with handguns.
One man armed with a .45 Auto, Aaron Wyckoff, confronted the wounded animal at close range, and it savagely attacked him. He fired his pistol into the Bear 4 times, but then he accidentally released the magazine of his 1911 pistol, as he continued to struggle with the bear on top of him. As he fought with the bear for his life, another member of the party approached, and shot the bear with a .44 Remington magnum revolver. However, the bear would still not get off the hunter that was being mauled. Finally, this second man put the barrel of his .44 mag up against the bear's ear, and fired directly into its skull. Finally, the Bear rolled off the wounded hunter. What do you think that this incident proves? What lessons can be learned? Certainly, it must bring into question the effectiveness of the .45 for self-defense, don't you think? For it took a revolver to finally kill the bear. Surgeons reported that they were astonished that Wyckoff survived the attack without worse injuries than those he got. See: http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms...80&sid=4&fid=2 . |
June 13, 2008, 10:24 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 21, 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 619
|
WTH?
Everyone knows that a bear is a much tougher animal than a human is and it is not news at all that a .45 acp isn't ideal for defense against bears. The .45 acp always has been, and always will be more then adequate for use against people, this story changes nothing.
__________________
A couple of Sigs and a Walther Last edited by JohnKSa; July 7, 2008 at 11:32 PM. Reason: Acronym adjustment... |
June 13, 2008, 10:25 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 20, 2008
Location: IN
Posts: 321
|
that really doesn't show the effectiveness or lack of of the .45. It said the hunter shot 4 times, but where did they hit the animal? if the bullets struck a non lethal zone, the already wounded and scared animal would not have been subdued. ANY round to the ear of an animal will put it down, something about a bullet to the brain does wonders...
Ill stick to carrying my .45 for my self defense needs
__________________
SA XD .45 Compact -- 5" Colt XSE -- Glock 21SF Savage Mark-II .22LR Member:NRA, DU, PF Ignorance can be fixed....its called education. Stupid will get you killed! |
June 13, 2008, 10:25 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 12, 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,728
|
Are you honestly asking whether the fact that four rounds of .45ACP not stopping a bear at close range means .45ACP wont stop a person reliably??
Apples and watermelons dude....... Now if you are asking whether this proves .45ACP isn't good protection against bears in the woods then that's different. |
June 13, 2008, 10:27 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 12, 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,728
|
Also, bears don't know they're supposed to fall down when they are shot.
|
June 13, 2008, 10:28 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 4, 2008
Location: idaho
Posts: 373
|
You're joking, right? I just know you are.
If this incident proves that the .45 is not worthy of self defense than it also proves that a .338 WM isn't. Note also that you are making an erroneous conclusion. I DID NOT take *just* a revolver to stop the bear, it took a rifle shot, 4 .45s and 2 shots from the .44. This incident only shows what everyone in the world already knows. For bears, you don't draw your handgun unless your rifle is empty, broken or at home. Even then, no matter what the handgun, you better be praying as you draw.
__________________
The second amendment articulates one of my rights, but like the other amendments, grants none. |
June 13, 2008, 10:30 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 12, 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,728
|
It does probably prove that a 15yo shouldn't be hunting with a .338 Mag though.
|
June 13, 2008, 10:32 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 3, 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,421
|
Nothing in regards to the .45's effectiveness against a human attacker can be inferred from the details of this account; especially as they are so limited. It would not be out of line to conclude that the .45 ACP may be insufficient for defense against bears.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" --commonly misattributed to, and most likely not, Benjamin Franklin |
June 13, 2008, 10:34 PM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: GA
Posts: 1,861
|
No way! .45ACP is plenty for bear. Just ask this guy!
http://bakercityherald.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=6690 Quote:
|
|
June 13, 2008, 10:36 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 12, 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 271
|
yeah..doesnt prove anything. Ive never heard anyone argue that the 1911 in .45 acp is a bear stopper or woods gun...Its still good against people though. .45 is GREAT for protection..just not against a bear.
__________________
GLOCK 23,Smith & Wesson New 520,Tuarus 651,Taurus 608,Taurus PT92, Astra A-75,CZ-52,East German Makarov,Mossberg 835 Ulti Mag, Remington 870 Express Magnum |
June 13, 2008, 10:37 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 10,435
|
Does no one else sense a bit of tounge-in-cheek in the original post?
|
June 13, 2008, 10:39 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: GA
Posts: 1,861
|
Hopefully he was kidding. I didn't get the sarcasm if he was.
|
June 13, 2008, 10:40 PM | #13 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 12, 2006
Location: Georgia
Posts: 271
|
Quote:
__________________
GLOCK 23,Smith & Wesson New 520,Tuarus 651,Taurus 608,Taurus PT92, Astra A-75,CZ-52,East German Makarov,Mossberg 835 Ulti Mag, Remington 870 Express Magnum |
|
June 13, 2008, 10:41 PM | #14 | |
Junior member
Join Date: May 10, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,774
|
Quote:
But that is not all that more than what a human adult male can weigh. Many men weigh over 200 lbs. What if you were attacked by a 300 lb NFL lineman?? . |
|
June 13, 2008, 10:42 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 24, 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,323
|
This story really proves nothing.
There is a thread in the revolver forum, which has a link to another thread with a post from a professional bear hunter. He took several LEO's out hunting for bear with their service weapons, which were .45's. He states that they killed their bears in around 2-3 shots to the vitals. I would rather put my trust in the 100 year long reputation of the .45 as a man stopper then some vague article about an incident with a bear.
__________________
"Si vis pacem, para bellum" - If you want peace, prepare for war. |
June 13, 2008, 10:43 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: GA
Posts: 1,861
|
Not many men, even those weighing 250+, have a foot of fat and muscle covering their vitals.
|
June 13, 2008, 10:46 PM | #17 | |
Junior member
Join Date: May 10, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,774
|
Quote:
We seem to be getting some aggressive black bears this year. In your case, though, the shooter was able to empty his .45 into the bear. So this other story I mentioned is probably unfair to the .45 Auto, since he was only able to get half the number of shots off that the fellow in your story did. . |
|
June 13, 2008, 10:48 PM | #18 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 10,435
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
June 13, 2008, 10:52 PM | #19 | |
Junior member
Join Date: May 10, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,774
|
Quote:
I was actually thinking that I should maybe pack my .357 with me if I go hiking off into the forest this summer. . |
|
June 13, 2008, 10:55 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 1, 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 130
|
I think it proves these hunters need to go back to the range and get some practice with there accuracy. You should not have to stick your barrel in a bears ear, shot the dam thing before it jumps on you.
__________________
HK45, HK45C, P30, P30L, P7M8 AH S&W Model 41 .22 / Winchester Speed Pump 12 / Buckmark Rifle Bull Barrel .22 / LWRC M6A2 5.56 SBR 10.5'' HKCHEF- "Fostering fear is good for business." |
June 13, 2008, 10:59 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 27, 2006
Location: Peoples Republic of Chicago
Posts: 408
|
your right .45 is terrible all you people who live in bear counrty should send your .45 pistols and ammo to me their are no bears hear I'll be safe to have them
__________________
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." --Norman Thomas |
June 13, 2008, 11:00 PM | #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 24, 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,323
|
Quote:
Most people will consider a .357 to the minimum to pack with you if you are going out and about into bear country. A lot of people will recommend a good .44 magnum if you are in an area which you may encounter bears.
__________________
"Si vis pacem, para bellum" - If you want peace, prepare for war. |
|
June 13, 2008, 11:02 PM | #23 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 10,435
|
Quote:
|
|
June 13, 2008, 11:10 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
Posts: 2,271
|
A pointless thread IMO.
__________________
Texas, the only State to Have Ever Kicked Another Country's Butt |
June 13, 2008, 11:24 PM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Posts: 461
|
Just proves the fifteen year old needs to practice more!
And why in heavens name would you use a damn pistol to finish off a bear when you have a rifle handy?? |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|