357446, the perfect specimen!

Beagle333 · January 27, 2015, 09:31 PM

I have finally found it!!! After buying five of these molds, I have finally hit upon the one.

Just look at the front driving band on this one....

See how wide it is? That is the secret to this profile. A wide front driving band makes all the difference in how it shoots.

Most of the 357446 molds that you will find, will give you this bullet with the skinny front driving band with a slightly longer nose...

This makes it unstable and it is not easy to get it to shoot accurately. But no more, now that I have found the one. Happy happy happy!!!

Vance · January 27, 2015, 10:12 PM

Could you have had someone with a lathe/milling machine make the front driving band thicker?

Beagle333 · January 27, 2015, 10:21 PM

Erik at hollowpointmold.com only does rear drive band enlargement. I think he used to do any band, but now his site says front band enlargement not available. Anyway, Ideal did make it with this perfect sized band

..... but you just have to find one of the molds. The Lymans that I have seen all shrank that band for some reason.

And I'm not out much money from my search... I can still just resell the other molds for about the same as I paid, since I bought them all used.

Mike / Tx · January 28, 2015, 05:42 AM

Looks like a good one. I have the 358429 myself. It is a great looking bullet as well. I have read where a lot of folks have had issues with it not shooting very well and that it was due to the front driving band not being full diameter or that the long noses were an issue with their short cylinders, or having to run them to top end velocities. None of that has been an issue for me, especially the top end stuff.

Mine has the front driving band a touch small don't recall off the top of my head this early, but it isn't much something like .356 or there bouts, but every other ring after that is full bore 358". So far it has shot well in both of the GP-100's and gives decent expansion with a "certain alloy" that seems to be catching some interest.

IIRC - that smaller front band is supposed to help to guide this long thing into the forcing cone a bit easier and help to align the cylinder to it as well. This is supposed to help the rest of it follow along nice and straight. I don't remember if i read that in one of Keith's comments about it or from another source. Either way though they shoot great for me.

I'll have to pour up a batch of these and swap you out for some of those. I'll holler later on with details.

454PB · January 29, 2015, 10:24 PM

I have an old Ideal 2 cavity mould that also features the longer front band.

Beagle333 · January 29, 2015, 11:01 PM

Awesome! This one is an Ideal as well. Do you have any pics?

Vance · January 29, 2015, 11:15 PM

I figured you would have had pictures of these powder coated already.

Beagle333 · January 30, 2015, 04:52 AM

I haven't coated the new ones yet. I did coat the ones with the skinny front bands. They do shoot pretty good, but you gotta put some zip on em. 'Definitely not a plinker.

dahermit · January 30, 2015, 01:35 PM

Beagle 333, The advantage of a wide first driving band was one of Elmer Keith's rantings 50 years ago. When Lyman started producing moulds that were supposed to be Keith Type, he said that they dropped the ball. At one time, RCBS Keith Type moulds did have the wider first driving bands. The question is: "How much difference does it really make"?

Beagle333 · January 30, 2015, 01:39 PM

It makes enough that even I figured it out. And I didn't even know about his rantings.

But I was given some that had a wider front band and they were much better than the ones I made when I bought my own mold, and then I figured out the difference.

Mike / Tx · January 30, 2015, 06:03 PM

Quote:

I was given some that had a wider front band and they were much better than the ones I made when I bought my own mold, and then I figured out the difference.

You ARE talking about when you actually shot these and not with them sittin side by side in your display case .....right?

Sorry couldn't resist. I have to say the one mold I have as mentioned has a pretty wide band measuring length wise, but it isn't the full .358" in diameter, more like .356" It will however shoot like a house a fire, outta both the GP's and also form the old Colt Army 38 SPL.

I'll give you a holler shortly on these...

dahermit · January 30, 2015, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Sorry couldn't resist. I have to say the one mold I have as mentioned has a pretty wide band measuring length wise, but it isn't the full .358" in diameter, more like .356"...

Keith just about had a stroke over that too. He insisted that if it was a "Keith Design", it had to be full-caliber and the band had to be as wide and the driving bands. It seems that a lot of those mould makers were fiddling with his design and he stated as much, and often.

Beagle333 · January 30, 2015, 07:33 PM

Quote:

You ARE talking about when you actually shot these and not with them sittin side by side in your display case .....right?

I have a test shooter that comes by twice a month and he does my light work.

Yeah, I'll swap you some. Don't get too antsy about getting 20# of em though.... it's only a single cav!

Mike / Tx · January 31, 2015, 06:14 AM

Quote:

it's only a single cav!

Well my initial thought was to simply swap molds with you for a couple of weeks, then I could pour up my own using several different alloys. That said though and reading the above, all I can say is there ain't no way.....

I ran a single the other day and it was like watching paint dry. OMG it took FOREVER to get 50 of them...

The worst part is for the first six pours I spilled lead all over the place tryin to fill those other three cavities...

I'm piddlin with this powdery stuff this weekend. I got some done up yesterday and will be doing some more today for "testing". I have the 41's at least going through the barrel at top end loads, now I want to do up some for the 44 and the .308 and see how they work out. Well you saw how those worked out the other day right...I hope to do better on the next batch through. I'm also going to try some in 6.5 for tangolima to see if we can get them to a size he can use. If so I'll pour him up a nice care package to try out and then he will at least know for sure what to get if he can find them.

All that said though, I think I have a big pile of the 429's poured up already. If so I will give you a shout and we'll work on details later this weekend. It don't take long with mine, it has 4 holes. I learned growing up with sisters that one bathroom simply didn't cut it, now I have two. Same with molds, one hole is better than none, but more is better than one.LOL

Beagle333 · January 31, 2015, 10:14 AM

'Just found another one with the wide bands!.... and it's a double cav. Score!

At least now I can run two molds and maybe not get too bored when casting these.

January 27, 2015, 09:31 PM	#1
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	357446, the perfect specimen! I have finally found it!!! After buying five of these molds, I have finally hit upon the one. Just look at the front driving band on this one.... See how wide it is? That is the secret to this profile. A wide front driving band makes all the difference in how it shoots. Most of the 357446 molds that you will find, will give you this bullet with the skinny front driving band with a slightly longer nose... This makes it unstable and it is not easy to get it to shoot accurately. But no more, now that I have found the one. Happy happy happy!!! __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

January 27, 2015, 10:21 PM	#3
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	Erik at hollowpointmold.com only does rear drive band enlargement. I think he used to do any band, but now his site says front band enlargement not available. Anyway, Ideal did make it with this perfect sized band ..... but you just have to find one of the molds. The Lymans that I have seen all shrank that band for some reason. And I'm not out much money from my search... I can still just resell the other molds for about the same as I paid, since I bought them all used. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

January 28, 2015, 05:42 AM	#4
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Looks like a good one. I have the 358429 myself. It is a great looking bullet as well. I have read where a lot of folks have had issues with it not shooting very well and that it was due to the front driving band not being full diameter or that the long noses were an issue with their short cylinders, or having to run them to top end velocities. None of that has been an issue for me, especially the top end stuff. Mine has the front driving band a touch small don't recall off the top of my head this early, but it isn't much something like .356 or there bouts, but every other ring after that is full bore 358". So far it has shot well in both of the GP-100's and gives decent expansion with a "certain alloy" that seems to be catching some interest. IIRC - that smaller front band is supposed to help to guide this long thing into the forcing cone a bit easier and help to align the cylinder to it as well. This is supposed to help the rest of it follow along nice and straight. I don't remember if i read that in one of Keith's comments about it or from another source. Either way though they shoot great for me. I'll have to pour up a batch of these and swap you out for some of those. I'll holler later on with details. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

January 29, 2015, 11:01 PM	#6
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	Awesome! This one is an Ideal as well. Do you have any pics? __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

January 30, 2015, 04:52 AM	#8
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	I haven't coated the new ones yet. I did coat the ones with the skinny front bands. They do shoot pretty good, but you gotta put some zip on em. 'Definitely not a plinker. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

January 27, 2015, 10:12 PM	#2
Vance Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2011 Location: North Bend, OR Posts: 743	Could you have had someone with a lathe/milling machine make the front driving band thicker?

January 29, 2015, 10:24 PM	#5
454PB Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Location: Helena, Mt. Posts: 122	I have an old Ideal 2 cavity mould that also features the longer front band.

January 29, 2015, 11:15 PM	#7
Vance Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2011 Location: North Bend, OR Posts: 743	I figured you would have had pictures of these powder coated already.

January 30, 2015, 01:35 PM	#9
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Beagle 333, The advantage of a wide first driving band was one of Elmer Keith's rantings 50 years ago. When Lyman started producing moulds that were supposed to be Keith Type, he said that they dropped the ball. At one time, RCBS Keith Type moulds did have the wider first driving bands. The question is: "How much difference does it really make"?

January 30, 2015, 01:39 PM	#10
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	It makes enough that even I figured it out. And I didn't even know about his rantings. But I was given some that had a wider front band and they were much better than the ones I made when I bought my own mold, and then I figured out the difference. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

January 31, 2015, 10:14 AM	#15
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	'Just found another one with the wide bands!.... and it's a double cav. Score! At least now I can run two molds and maybe not get too bored when casting these. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.