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March 13, 2008, 02:12 AM | #1 |
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Do i need diff loads for varmint and deer?
I own a ruger mark II in .243 win (good for varmint and deer.) I just got my reloading equipment, and i am wondering if you think i should work up 2 loads (one for varmints and one for deer) or just one load for both. I guess what im asking is, would there be any problems with me shooting prarie dogs and coyotes this summer with my deer load? What would the advantages be of making a load just for varmints.
Thanks, Phil |
March 13, 2008, 02:40 AM | #2 |
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pj, I'm a hawkeye owner! LOVVVEEE the Ruger M77 model,great rifle! Anyhow,I'm assuming your a new reloader? If so,your probably going to go through 10 different loads or more before you find the right one.Each rifle is different,so what may be great for me may be horrible for you!As far as different loads for different game,I use the same load for all,I usually just swap out bullets depending on what I'm hunting.
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March 13, 2008, 04:15 AM | #3 |
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Need a light skin bullet for varmints and a controlled expansion for deer, so yes you need 2 different loads.
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March 13, 2008, 08:15 AM | #4 |
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I think he was asking whether he can use a good deer load on varmints, NOT a varmint load on deer.
The answer is yes, but you may see the varmints flop around in pain a lot before they die. A varmint bullet is designed to literally blow up with shallow penetration, which would make a surface wound on a deer but literally blows the smaller varmints to shreds. I'm sure they never know they are hit with any reasonable shot placement. But a deer bullet would go right through them, leaving a hole that will kill them soon, but not necessarily instantly. SL1 |
March 13, 2008, 08:25 AM | #5 |
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I tried the same thing loading 3 different loads for varmints, deer, and elk. I finally gave up and just loaded my .270 Win with 130 grain bullets as they shot the best and use them on varmints and deer and use a larger caliber for elk. Sure beats having to change the scope for point of impact for 90, 130, and 150 grain bullets. The 130 does a pretty good job on the prairie dogs, the expansion isn't as violent as the 90 grain but there isn't any suffering of the animal.
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March 13, 2008, 08:33 AM | #6 | |
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Can depend on how much you are planning on shooting. If you are going to spend some time shooting Prairie Dogs, you might save a few bucks using varmit bullet Vs a premium bullet.
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March 13, 2008, 12:47 PM | #7 |
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Gbro-I ment primer,brass, powder...etc.sorry for the error!!
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March 13, 2008, 01:33 PM | #8 |
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Simply put, fast light weight HP bullets for varmints and slower heavy SP bullets for deer. I use .243 75 gr HP for coyotes, 100 gr SP for deer.
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March 13, 2008, 03:19 PM | #9 |
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You can shoot varmints with deer loads, and they blow up just like shooting them with varmint loads. Just don't shoot deer with varmint loads. Differences between the two bullet types are:
* Varmint bullets are designed to blow up to eliminate ricochets, not to blow up the varmints. * Varmint bullets are typically lighter for reduced recoil, allow higher velocity. * Varmint bullets have thin jackets to facilitate expansion and disintegration, whereas big game bullets have heavier jackets to allow deep penetration and hold the bullet together. I used 87 gr BTHP for varmints, and 100 gr SBT for big game loads in my 243. There are bullets from 55 gr to 110 gr available for the .243 if you relaod.
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March 13, 2008, 05:29 PM | #10 |
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I don’t think you really ‘need’ to load anything specifically for varmints. I’ve sent lots of prairie dogs to the big pasture in the sky using regular hunting bullets of 150 grain and 130 grain in 30-06 and .270, and never had any crawling away to die either. Varmint hunting is a great way to get in some good practice and really get to know your hunting rifle. The biggest downside to using non varmint bullets is the likelihood of ricochets. A good frangible varmint bullet will rarely ricochet. That’s definitely not the case with a good hunting bullet, and we always limited their usage to shooting into a hillside in the pastures.
If you have a good safe background I don’t think it makes any difference, but if you tend to shoot in the flats though, I’d go with a good varmint bullet just for safety. |
March 13, 2008, 06:51 PM | #11 |
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You'll find varminting much more pleasant, if you use varmint-appropriate bullet weights for your .243. Use heavier bullets that penetrate more for deer; lighter, "exploding" bullets for varmints.
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March 13, 2008, 07:54 PM | #12 |
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I don’t load 243 but I do load 6mm REM. Which has a little more velocity.
Although I don’t hunt dear with the gun, I have been placed on the wanted list in the land of earthen piggies. (Ground hogs) I like to stay with 70 gr bullets for long range pig eaters (300 yards or more) with the higher velocity of the lighter bullets you can carry more range with less drop. If I were going to hunt dear with the gun I would want to use the heaviest bullet that the gun would stabilize and be accurate. I have shot the Hornady 105 gr A-MAX bullets as a experiment and they worked alright in the 6mm but accuracy suffered. But still that bullet at 2900 FPS could put some mean buck on the dinner table. But to answer your question, the 243 is a hand loaders dream and is also a very accurate gun. I would load two different loads and I find the extermination fun when working up loads. You know what they call a ground hog hit with a 24 caliber bullet at over 3400 fps that’s been eating soybeans???? A green cloud |
March 13, 2008, 09:38 PM | #13 |
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"...a deer bullet would go right through them..." Nope. The Speer 105 grain SP's I've used on occasion practically turn a ground hog inside out. Varmint bullets are made to expand rapidly upon impact with little penetration. A deer bullet is designed for controlled expansion with more penetration. The ground hog(or anything else) won't know the difference. Work up a deer load that shoots accurately and shoot varmints with it for at least the first season. Like WCW says, varmint hunting is great practice for deer hunting.
Either a varmint or deer bullet will make big holes in a coyote's hide. Not good if you plan on keeping the hides. Mind you, summer coyote hides aren't as luxurious as a winter hide. Commercial FMJ's(not the same thing as a military FMJ. The jackets are thinner.) are made for hide hunting. They'll kill a ground hog with no fuss too.
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March 14, 2008, 06:32 AM | #14 |
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My .243 has a fairly slow-twist barrel, and I don't have much luck with 100-grain bullets. It works well with the Sierra 85-grain HPBT for deer up to a field-dressed weight of around 120 pounds: Neck shots, mostly, and cross-body heart/lung shots. I won't take an angling shot if I can avoid it. This load really does horrible things to innocent coyotes.
I've used 55-grain bullets on prairie dogs, to around 300 yards. But, if your rifle groups well with 100- or 105-grain bullets, the twist rate might be a tad fast for best group size with the 55s... |
March 14, 2008, 06:53 AM | #15 |
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The few coyotes I've shot were at the end of an unproductive deer hunt. I used the load on hand (280 with 140g BT) and they all dropped in their tracks. The pelts were in horrible shape - baseball sized exit wound, so if that's a consideration you will probably need a dedicated varmint gun (223 or sumthin like that). Other from pelt damage, I've never had a problem with a humane kill.
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March 14, 2008, 07:25 AM | #16 |
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Some of these posts tend to miss a point. If you are shooting smallish varmints at long ranges, you are not necessarily going to make shots centered in the vital areas every time. Marginal hits with a bullet that fragments will do a lot more damage to a small animal than marginal hits with a bullet that simply expands. Sure, if you center a large groundhog with a deer load, it is an instant kill. But, are you going to center a smaller rodent at 350 yards every shot? There is some truth in Barnes "Varmint Grenade" tradename.
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March 14, 2008, 12:46 PM | #17 |
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Sierra makes a GameKing 85-grain HPBT for larger game and two varmint bullets, an 80-grain Spitzer BT Blitz plus an 85-grain Spitzer. With a little work, I think one could work up a load that would put either a GameKing or a Varminter bullet in the same place without changing scope settings.
If I was to use only one bullet for all purposes, I'd look at the Winchester 80-grain pointed soft point, which could be too much of a compromise for larger deer. |
March 14, 2008, 04:13 PM | #18 |
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Here is a quote directly from Hornady's website regarding terminal ballistics.
"The target determines the ideal behavior that you want from a bullet. On smaller, lighter game such as varmints, you normally want the rapid destruction of the bullet on impact for the instant transfer of energy, since penetration is rarely an issue. For common big-game animals such as deer and elk, you want the controlled release of energy at impact to increase bullet penetration. By using a moderately fast-expanding bullet, more projectile energy is retained to transfer to the animal’s internal organs. For even larger, more dangerous, big-game animals, you want bullets designed for even slower energy expenditure in order to achieve the deep penetration necessary to create permanent and temporary cavitation in the vital areas of large animals even after the bullet has broken bones along its path. " So yes, you do want different loads for varmint and deer. A varmint bullet IS made to fragment on impact, and a deer bullet IS made to penetrate after impact before expanding. |
March 14, 2008, 10:20 PM | #19 | |
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Quote:
I've shot prairie dogs with my deer loads for quite some time, I can tell you from experience a marginal hit with a better constructed bullet is still a kill shot. I've even shot them with .50 cal round ball and while it doesn't produce a red mist it still kills them dead. You are not being inhumane by using a "Deer" bullet on varmints from the smallest rodent up to coyotes. As already stated the best thing about varmint bullets is that they don't tend to ricochet after impact. |
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March 14, 2008, 10:23 PM | #20 | |
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Dang! I really liked the idea of blowing up varmits! |
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