Need help identifying/getting info for a Mauser that was given to me

cckowali · November 21, 2014, 11:31 AM

First off, I know nothing about guns. I can safely handle, load and shoot my hunting rifles, but thats as far as my gun knowledge goes. This gun was just given to me by my Great Uncle who told me to sell it and keep the money as a gift. He said a friend of his claims it hold little value, but never got it checked out. There's markings all over it and from the little googling I did I really didn't find anything other than that this forum is the place to ask. So. Here are all the pictures of the markings. I can provide more picture/information if needed. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

http://i.imgur.com/1m8ZGMy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NUiM0z2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/z21nnop.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CLbLqvM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ezJabYf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/h0lpHfS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/e5KNRyc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qGWEUEA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UMNkgE1.jpg

Husqvarna · November 21, 2014, 12:19 PM

radom is in poland I think

IIRC the poles did have a mauser before the war

MountainBear · November 21, 2014, 03:41 PM

According to Ludwig Olson's Mauser Book, it appears to be "German Model 29/40 7.9mm. short rifle with Polish Model 29 barreled action. "660" code marking is for Steyr-Daimler Puch, A.G., Steyr, Austria, where the rifle was assembled" (Olson, Mauser Bolt Rifles, 15th printing, 2002, F. Brownell & Son)

According to the book, this model was developed from the Polish Model 29 short rifle, which is why it has both Radom (Polish) and German/Austrian (Steyr, 660) markings.

Sadly, it looks like someone chopped the stock, but it doesn't appear to have any other kitchen table gunsmithing done to it. If all original, it would obviously be worth more. A quick check on Gunbroker completed auctions show one sold for $800, then one for $1500, then another hasn't sold, but the owner is asking $2600 for it. So a fairly rare and valuable gun. Without the full stock, however, the value is pretty diminished. I honestly don't know what a Mauser collector would give you for the barreled action.

Nice find! Good luck!

cckowali · November 21, 2014, 04:12 PM

MountainBear, thanks so much for your help! The gun condition itself I'd say is fair/poor the way it is, and the fact that you say the stock is modified diminishing the value, means most likely I'd bd lucky to get much for it or even sell it all?

spacemanspiff · November 21, 2014, 04:45 PM

You may wish to ask your Great Uncle where he obtained it from, find out more of the guns history and maybe learn how it got from Poland to here.

It may not have sentimental value, then again, maybe it does? Maybe the rifle was a gift from someone else in your family to your great uncle?

The photos you shared are great, yeah we can see its a little rough around the edges, but what about the bore? Is the rifling in decent shape? How does the action feel? Smooth, or rough?

emcon5 · November 21, 2014, 06:20 PM

Excellent history lesson here:
http://www.ycgg.org/pdfpages/ww2/G29_40.pdf

Quote:

There were thousands of “wz.29” rifles in various stages of completion in Radom when the Germans took over. The receivers, barrels, bolt assemblies, triggerguards, floorplates, followers, and bolt-stop assemblies for these rifles were totally interchangeable with the K98k. They were inspected, stamped with the Eagle 77 Waffenamt, and sent on to Steyr where they were assembled with Steyr made parts into standard K98k configuration rifles. These rifles were then issued to the various German military service branches. The vast majority of the receivers utilized had already been stamped with the Polish Eagle as well as with the F.B.Radom factory logo and a date of 1938 or 1939. These receivers when used in completed rifles were over stamped with the Steyr “660” code and the final Steyr Waffenamts of “WaA623”

That is a very cool rifle. Too bad the stock has been cut.

cckowali · November 21, 2014, 06:37 PM

The gun holds no sentimental to my family as far as I know. My uncle claims he has no recollection of how he obtained it. He didn't even know what it was. He kept referring to it as the "Jap" gun because he thought all the little markings on it were Japanese (his 88 year old eyesight doesn't help the matter) and I tried explaining to him that they were something else. He could care less. He has that many guns, and has had so many come and go over the years that there are only a handful he knows the history of, or cares to know the history of. As far as the bore, I wouldn't know what to look for if I did look at it. Like I said in the original post, I know nothing about guns, nor shall I pretend that I do. He said it fires but I haven't even had a chance to get ammo and shoot it. He gave it to me along with a old HR 12 gauge single shot and told me they were "in his way" and to him were worthless. That's when he told me to take them, sell them and put some money in my pocket for the holidays. I plan on educating him (if he cares to listen) about them before I make any decisions to sell. Thank you all for the input, it is greatly appreciated.

emcon5 · November 21, 2014, 07:08 PM

Are there any numbers on the bolt?

Can you take a photo of the complete rifle, the front 1/4 of the barrel and front sight, and possibly a reasonably close photo of any markings on the stock on the right side between the butt and the metal disk.

If you are using a camera (rather than a phone), see if there is a closeup/macro setting, it will look like a flower.

Thanks.

MountainBear · November 21, 2014, 07:16 PM

Honestly, I wouldn't even know where to start. I think the only thing more complicated than finding an intact rifle like yours would be finding the parts to put it back to correct. It will likely never obtain the value of a correct/original gun, but to a Mauser collector with a hole in his collection, there is still value in the barreled action.

Assuming the barrel is still in decent shape, the action could be dropped in a 98k stock and at least made a shooter. If it were in my collection, that is probably what I would try to do with it. I would put it in a cupped butt-plate 98k stock and shoot it. I would make no further permanent alterations. That way if I needed/wanted to sell it in the future, it would still be a 29/40 short rifle, albeit in an incorrect stock.

A standard Mauser barreled action sells for +/- $175 to 200 on Gunbroker.

cckowali · November 21, 2014, 07:27 PM

emcon, I will be able to take some photos when I get back to my house in about an hour and will post if I can get clear shots. I am using my iphone, I do not have a digital camera unfortunately.

MountainBear, spacemanspiff and emcon. I just want to take a brief second and thank you for being informative, accurate, and friendly in regards to your responses. This is the first forum I used in twenty years that I was able to obtain accurate, cited knowledge as well as people who care enough to give the information I was seeking in a clean, prompt (under 5 replies? my mind is blown) manner. Straight, no chaser, very much appreciated. Sincerely, thank you all. I hope the rest of the community here is the same.

cckowali · November 21, 2014, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Are there any numbers on the bolt?

Can you take a photo of the complete rifle, the front 1/4 of the barrel and front sight, and possibly a reasonably close photo of any markings on the stock on the right side between the butt and the metal disk.

If you are using a camera (rather than a phone), see if there is a closeup/macro setting, it will look like a flower.

Thanks.

Will have to do this tomorrow. Thanks again for the link to the history of my gun. Just finished reading it, and although I know of nothing of rifles, shotguns, well firearms in general, just reading that, plus printing a copy for my uncle, and telling my father about all this sparked something inside me. Time to learn. Better late than never I guess.

James K · November 21, 2014, 10:51 PM

There is a lot of history in that rifle. Poland didn't exist as a country at the start of WWI; when Germany lost that war, part of the reparations it was forced to pay was the dismantling of its huge Prussian Empire arms factory at Erfurt. The Mauser rifle machinery was given to Poland when it was set up as an independent nation. The ex-Erfurt machinery was set up at Radom, and it was on that machinery that the Poles began production of their own Mausers, continuing production of the 98a carbine and manufacturing the Model 98 short rifle they designated as the Wzor (Model) 29.

When the Germans invaded Poland in 1940, starting WWII, they captured hundreds of thousands of Model 29s from Polish troops, as well as the Radom factory with stocks of unissued rifles and parts.

Since the Wz 29 was close to the German K.98k, the Germans wanted to use them for their own army. But they did not trust the Poles (I can't imagine why) to work on small arms, so they shipped the captured Polish rifles and parts to Steyr, in Austria, which had become part of Germany, for refurbishing/assembly as necessary. Those receivers which had been completed and marked at Radom were stamped with the Steyr "660" code, the "Wz" lined out, and the new adoption date of "40" added.

Many of those rifles went to the Luftwaffe (Air Force) and have an eagle/L on the stock; others went to the Marine (Navy) and have an eagle/M on the stock.

Jim

November 21, 2014, 11:31 AM	#1
cckowali Junior Member Join Date: November 20, 2014 Posts: 5	Need help identifying/getting info for a Mauser that was given to me First off, I know nothing about guns. I can safely handle, load and shoot my hunting rifles, but thats as far as my gun knowledge goes. This gun was just given to me by my Great Uncle who told me to sell it and keep the money as a gift. He said a friend of his claims it hold little value, but never got it checked out. There's markings all over it and from the little googling I did I really didn't find anything other than that this forum is the place to ask. So. Here are all the pictures of the markings. I can provide more picture/information if needed. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. http://i.imgur.com/1m8ZGMy.jpg http://i.imgur.com/NUiM0z2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/z21nnop.jpg http://i.imgur.com/CLbLqvM.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ezJabYf.jpg http://i.imgur.com/h0lpHfS.jpg http://i.imgur.com/e5KNRyc.jpg http://i.imgur.com/qGWEUEA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/UMNkgE1.jpg

November 21, 2014, 04:45 PM	#5
spacemanspiff Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2002 Location: alaska Posts: 3,498	You may wish to ask your Great Uncle where he obtained it from, find out more of the guns history and maybe learn how it got from Poland to here. It may not have sentimental value, then again, maybe it does? Maybe the rifle was a gift from someone else in your family to your great uncle? The photos you shared are great, yeah we can see its a little rough around the edges, but what about the bore? Is the rifling in decent shape? How does the action feel? Smooth, or rough? __________________ "Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard

November 21, 2014, 12:19 PM	#2
Husqvarna Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2012 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,000	radom is in poland I think IIRC the poles did have a mauser before the war

November 21, 2014, 03:41 PM	#3
MountainBear Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2006 Location: Floating between Oregon and Alaska depending on the season... Posts: 109	According to Ludwig Olson's Mauser Book, it appears to be "German Model 29/40 7.9mm. short rifle with Polish Model 29 barreled action. "660" code marking is for Steyr-Daimler Puch, A.G., Steyr, Austria, where the rifle was assembled" (Olson, Mauser Bolt Rifles, 15th printing, 2002, F. Brownell & Son) According to the book, this model was developed from the Polish Model 29 short rifle, which is why it has both Radom (Polish) and German/Austrian (Steyr, 660) markings. Sadly, it looks like someone chopped the stock, but it doesn't appear to have any other kitchen table gunsmithing done to it. If all original, it would obviously be worth more. A quick check on Gunbroker completed auctions show one sold for $800, then one for $1500, then another hasn't sold, but the owner is asking $2600 for it. So a fairly rare and valuable gun. Without the full stock, however, the value is pretty diminished. I honestly don't know what a Mauser collector would give you for the barreled action. Nice find! Good luck!

November 21, 2014, 04:12 PM	#4
cckowali Junior Member Join Date: November 20, 2014 Posts: 5	MountainBear, thanks so much for your help! The gun condition itself I'd say is fair/poor the way it is, and the fact that you say the stock is modified diminishing the value, means most likely I'd bd lucky to get much for it or even sell it all?

November 21, 2014, 06:37 PM	#7
cckowali Junior Member Join Date: November 20, 2014 Posts: 5	The gun holds no sentimental to my family as far as I know. My uncle claims he has no recollection of how he obtained it. He didn't even know what it was. He kept referring to it as the "Jap" gun because he thought all the little markings on it were Japanese (his 88 year old eyesight doesn't help the matter) and I tried explaining to him that they were something else. He could care less. He has that many guns, and has had so many come and go over the years that there are only a handful he knows the history of, or cares to know the history of. As far as the bore, I wouldn't know what to look for if I did look at it. Like I said in the original post, I know nothing about guns, nor shall I pretend that I do. He said it fires but I haven't even had a chance to get ammo and shoot it. He gave it to me along with a old HR 12 gauge single shot and told me they were "in his way" and to him were worthless. That's when he told me to take them, sell them and put some money in my pocket for the holidays. I plan on educating him (if he cares to listen) about them before I make any decisions to sell. Thank you all for the input, it is greatly appreciated.

November 21, 2014, 07:08 PM	#8
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	Are there any numbers on the bolt? Can you take a photo of the complete rifle, the front 1/4 of the barrel and front sight, and possibly a reasonably close photo of any markings on the stock on the right side between the butt and the metal disk. If you are using a camera (rather than a phone), see if there is a closeup/macro setting, it will look like a flower. Thanks.

November 21, 2014, 07:16 PM	#9
MountainBear Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2006 Location: Floating between Oregon and Alaska depending on the season... Posts: 109	Honestly, I wouldn't even know where to start. I think the only thing more complicated than finding an intact rifle like yours would be finding the parts to put it back to correct. It will likely never obtain the value of a correct/original gun, but to a Mauser collector with a hole in his collection, there is still value in the barreled action. Assuming the barrel is still in decent shape, the action could be dropped in a 98k stock and at least made a shooter. If it were in my collection, that is probably what I would try to do with it. I would put it in a cupped butt-plate 98k stock and shoot it. I would make no further permanent alterations. That way if I needed/wanted to sell it in the future, it would still be a 29/40 short rifle, albeit in an incorrect stock. A standard Mauser barreled action sells for +/- $175 to 200 on Gunbroker.

November 21, 2014, 07:27 PM	#10
cckowali Junior Member Join Date: November 20, 2014 Posts: 5	emcon, I will be able to take some photos when I get back to my house in about an hour and will post if I can get clear shots. I am using my iphone, I do not have a digital camera unfortunately. MountainBear, spacemanspiff and emcon. I just want to take a brief second and thank you for being informative, accurate, and friendly in regards to your responses. This is the first forum I used in twenty years that I was able to obtain accurate, cited knowledge as well as people who care enough to give the information I was seeking in a clean, prompt (under 5 replies? my mind is blown) manner. Straight, no chaser, very much appreciated. Sincerely, thank you all. I hope the rest of the community here is the same.

November 21, 2014, 10:51 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There is a lot of history in that rifle. Poland didn't exist as a country at the start of WWI; when Germany lost that war, part of the reparations it was forced to pay was the dismantling of its huge Prussian Empire arms factory at Erfurt. The Mauser rifle machinery was given to Poland when it was set up as an independent nation. The ex-Erfurt machinery was set up at Radom, and it was on that machinery that the Poles began production of their own Mausers, continuing production of the 98a carbine and manufacturing the Model 98 short rifle they designated as the Wzor (Model) 29. When the Germans invaded Poland in 1940, starting WWII, they captured hundreds of thousands of Model 29s from Polish troops, as well as the Radom factory with stocks of unissued rifles and parts. Since the Wz 29 was close to the German K.98k, the Germans wanted to use them for their own army. But they did not trust the Poles (I can't imagine why) to work on small arms, so they shipped the captured Polish rifles and parts to Steyr, in Austria, which had become part of Germany, for refurbishing/assembly as necessary. Those receivers which had been completed and marked at Radom were stamped with the Steyr "660" code, the "Wz" lined out, and the new adoption date of "40" added. Many of those rifles went to the Luftwaffe (Air Force) and have an eagle/L on the stock; others went to the Marine (Navy) and have an eagle/M on the stock. Jim