Clean Burning Pistol Powder?

Robb Spence · November 1, 2002, 02:00 AM

First of all, I just joined Firing Line and must tell you this is a GREAT forum with good advice - less the unnecessary banter. My compliments! I will do my best to uphold the standard.

Anyway, I'm a long time rifle and shotgun reloader and just started loading for pistol (.44 Mag and .45LC). I started with Bullseye (smokeless?) Powder which seems like it's only one twig away from black powder on the great family tree of propellants. Can anyone suggest a cleaner burning powder that is suited to these calibers. Or should I just get used to it? Thanks so much.

LF&Co. MG · November 1, 2002, 03:36 AM

You are using the wrong powder for a 44 Mag. You will want a slower burner to achieve true magnum velocities. Since you mention Alliant, go with Blue Dot or better yet 2400. Bullseye is the fastest burner on the market, it works best in short barrels and where economy is the key. The Blue Dot and 2400 will generate more velocity over the length of the barrel and give you a more efficient hence cleaner burn. If you need reloading data on these powders, just ask and I'll dig it up. You WILL be using A LOT more of these than you did of Bullseye. Good Luck

WESHOOT2 · November 1, 2002, 05:30 AM

Hodgdon Universal Clays.

Forgetful Dave · November 1, 2002, 09:34 AM

Vihta Vuorhi V N110 is exceptionally clean burning.
It is what I use for my heavy .44 mag loads.

tonyz · November 1, 2002, 10:16 AM

Just finished loading some 357 mag loads using Hodgdon Universal Clays, I like it for my target loads. I also like Blue Dot for hotter loads.

Tony

Jeeper · November 1, 2002, 11:35 AM

THe hottest powder for 44 mag is W296 or H110(They are the same powder) Viht N110 is also very clean(Pricey though). Other than that I agree with the Universal Clays. UC is not that hot for "true" magnum loads.

Master Blaster · November 1, 2002, 11:53 AM

Fast burning powder in those calibers is for Light Target Loads.

Light loads = 4-5 grains Tightgroup, W231, bullseye.

Heavy max velocity loads you want a slow burning powder like 2400.

I dont load heavy loads, I buy factory ammo for full power shooting, which I do very little of.

For target loads I use titegroup 4 grains in a .357 mag case.

Titegroup is made for small charges in large capacity cases
(read light target loads), like for Cowboy action shooting or bullseye pistol.

Snake Jenkins · November 1, 2002, 12:04 PM

For the .45 colt you need to use Unique and for the .44 maggie 2400.

Snake

ZeusOne · November 1, 2002, 03:07 PM

I've had really good luck, and clean burns, with H110 in 44 mag. AA#9 works really well too, but seems to burn a liitle dirtier in this application. Both perform well in my 7.5" SRH.

For grins, try Blue Dot if you want flames that will finish off what the bullet didn't get around to!

cheygriz · November 2, 2002, 12:53 PM

For the .45 Colt, you will be well served with any of the following:
Nitro 100
Unique
Universal
There are others as well, but these I have experience with.

In the .44 Mag, for target loads, Unique and Universal are about right.,

For full power loads, H110, 296, AAC9, 2400, 4227 will all work well. I prefer AAC9 for all bullet weights, but your guns may like one of the others better.

It's just like rifle reloading. You've pretty much got to try them all to find the best.

Robb Spence · November 2, 2002, 04:06 PM

Thank you all very much. I have logged all your suggestions into my load development book and am starting on the Clays and 2400 powder versions this weekend. Will try the others soon. Thanks again!

markmcj · November 2, 2002, 07:22 PM

I have to throw in Titegroup. My .44 mag likes it. Small charge sizes too[cheaper]. I use Titegroup all the time in my .45 acp. Here's a photo of the feed ramp after approx. 2000 rounds. Hodgdon also has some loads listed for .45 Colt

popbang · November 2, 2002, 09:08 PM

Robb Spence, read your last post. Just so you know there are several powders with the word "Clays" in them, Universal Clays, International Clays, and Clays. They have very different burn rates. Be sure you are using the right one.

Universal is a real good powder for moderate loads. Have fun and be safe.

Katsumi Liquer · November 3, 2002, 10:08 AM

I concur on the recommendation for Universal Clays. That is what I am using for my 9mm, 40S&W, 44 Mag. and 45ACP reloads. Very clean burning and economical to use.

KL

Gary H · November 3, 2002, 10:11 AM

I have had good results with Universal in Long Colt.

Chemistry · November 3, 2002, 12:03 PM

For non-magnum handgun cartridges, I'd suggest taking a look at Vihtavuori N340. Almost as versatile as Hodgdon Universal Clays (not to be confused with Clays or International Clays), or Alliant Unique. A bit slower, but it burns exceptionally cleanly, and no muzzle flash.

For magnum cartridges, Accurate Arms #7 seems to be a good performer for me. Similar performance as Alliant Blue Dot, but without the belching bright orange fireball.

ryucasta · November 3, 2002, 12:55 PM

Anyone of the Vihtavouri pistol powders will burn clean. I’m currently using N320 for my fast burning powder loads and I used to use N350 and 3n37 as my slow burning powder loads but I have transitioned over to Hodgdon’s Longshot since it also clean burning and here in Southern California it sells for about $28.00 less than the Vihtavouri powders.

Robb Spence · November 4, 2002, 10:52 AM

Firing Line is Great! You guys are very helpful! I was aware of the different 'Clays' versions but that was good to point out as we can never be too safe in this hobby. I can't wait to try out the various combinations you all have offered. Thanks so much!

Poodleshooter · November 4, 2002, 05:31 PM

One other note-these powders burn clean with jacketed bullets. Lead bullets & lube cause a great deal of the fouling we see.

Ben Shepherd · November 7, 2002, 09:17 AM

Don't forget: Everyone who shoots 44 mag must have at least 1 box of 255 grain wadcutters over 22 grains of 2400 at all times.

Just ain't right not having that load around somehow............

Bacchus · November 7, 2002, 12:34 PM

I agree with the recommendations of 2400 and Unique.

Frohickey · November 7, 2002, 02:04 PM

Whats 255gr wadcutters over 22grains of 2400?

Redneck2 · November 7, 2002, 05:43 PM

OK, I won't call you Shirley...

loads like the 2400/255 are the standard "hard hitter" 44 Maggie loads

I don't know that it's the "best", but I use AA #5 with a 255 Keith LSWC. I like it because I can use it for mid-range 45 LC, 45 ACP, and 10MM. It's very clean for using a lead bullet. As posted above, lead is always dirtier than jacketed. If you're using lead, a clear lube gives a MUCH cleaner burn than crayon type red or blue lubes IMO.

The new powders like V V, Universal Clays, AA, give much cleaner burn than "old" powders like Unique, Red Dot, etc.

Greg Mueller · November 10, 2002, 11:50 AM

I tried 2400 in my Super Blackhawk, but didn't care for all the noise and flash. I settled on 14.5 gr of Bluedot, behind the 240 gr semi jacketed, semi wadcutter. It's pretty mild, accurate and effective in my pistola

November 1, 2002, 02:00 AM	#1
Robb Spence Junior Member Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 3	Clean Burning Pistol Powder? First of all, I just joined Firing Line and must tell you this is a GREAT forum with good advice - less the unnecessary banter. My compliments! I will do my best to uphold the standard. Anyway, I'm a long time rifle and shotgun reloader and just started loading for pistol (.44 Mag and .45LC). I started with Bullseye (smokeless?) Powder which seems like it's only one twig away from black powder on the great family tree of propellants. Can anyone suggest a cleaner burning powder that is suited to these calibers. Or should I just get used to it? Thanks so much. __________________ Robb Spence

November 1, 2002, 03:36 AM	#2
LF&Co. MG Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2002 Location: Lenoir City TN. Posts: 105	You are using the wrong powder for a 44 Mag. You will want a slower burner to achieve true magnum velocities. Since you mention Alliant, go with Blue Dot or better yet 2400. Bullseye is the fastest burner on the market, it works best in short barrels and where economy is the key. The Blue Dot and 2400 will generate more velocity over the length of the barrel and give you a more efficient hence cleaner burn. If you need reloading data on these powders, just ask and I'll dig it up. You WILL be using A LOT more of these than you did of Bullseye. Good Luck __________________ "This was the great abiding lesson of my boyhood, that I was in a world where it was not possible for me to be good" George Orwell

November 1, 2002, 05:30 AM	#3
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	HIGHLY RECOMMEND Hodgdon Universal Clays. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

November 1, 2002, 09:34 AM	#4
Forgetful Dave Member Join Date: August 8, 2001 Location: SC Posts: 53	Vihta Vuorhi V N110 is exceptionally clean burning. It is what I use for my heavy .44 mag loads. __________________ Rust never sleeps

November 1, 2002, 11:35 AM	#6
Jeeper Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 776	THe hottest powder for 44 mag is W296 or H110(They are the same powder) Viht N110 is also very clean(Pricey though). Other than that I agree with the Universal Clays. UC is not that hot for "true" magnum loads. __________________ Gun control theory - A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

November 1, 2002, 10:16 AM	#5
tonyz Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Location: Wa Posts: 922	Just finished loading some 357 mag loads using Hodgdon Universal Clays, I like it for my target loads. I also like Blue Dot for hotter loads. Tony __________________ Nothing Ventured Nothing Gained

November 1, 2002, 11:53 AM	#7
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	Fast burning powder in those calibers is for Light Target Loads. Light loads = 4-5 grains Tightgroup, W231, bullseye. Heavy max velocity loads you want a slow burning powder like 2400. I dont load heavy loads, I buy factory ammo for full power shooting, which I do very little of. For target loads I use titegroup 4 grains in a .357 mag case. Titegroup is made for small charges in large capacity cases (read light target loads), like for Cowboy action shooting or bullseye pistol.

November 1, 2002, 12:04 PM	#8
Snake Jenkins Registration in progress Join Date: April 18, 2002 Posts: 37	For the .45 colt you need to use Unique and for the .44 maggie 2400. Snake

November 1, 2002, 03:07 PM	#9
ZeusOne Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2000 Location: The hills of Western MD Posts: 237	I've had really good luck, and clean burns, with H110 in 44 mag. AA#9 works really well too, but seems to burn a liitle dirtier in this application. Both perform well in my 7.5" SRH. For grins, try Blue Dot if you want flames that will finish off what the bullet didn't get around to!

November 2, 2002, 12:53 PM	#10
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	For the .45 Colt, you will be well served with any of the following: Nitro 100 Unique Universal There are others as well, but these I have experience with. In the .44 Mag, for target loads, Unique and Universal are about right., For full power loads, H110, 296, AAC9, 2400, 4227 will all work well. I prefer AAC9 for all bullet weights, but your guns may like one of the others better. It's just like rifle reloading. You've pretty much got to try them all to find the best. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

November 2, 2002, 04:06 PM	#11
Robb Spence Junior Member Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 3	Thank you all very much. I have logged all your suggestions into my load development book and am starting on the Clays and 2400 powder versions this weekend. Will try the others soon. Thanks again! __________________ Robb Spence

November 2, 2002, 09:08 PM	#13
popbang Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2001 Location: out yonder Posts: 148	Robb Spence, read your last post. Just so you know there are several powders with the word "Clays" in them, Universal Clays, International Clays, and Clays. They have very different burn rates. Be sure you are using the right one. Universal is a real good powder for moderate loads. Have fun and be safe.

November 3, 2002, 10:08 AM	#14
Katsumi Liquer Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2002 Posts: 112	I concur on the recommendation for Universal Clays. That is what I am using for my 9mm, 40S&W, 44 Mag. and 45ACP reloads. Very clean burning and economical to use. KL

November 3, 2002, 10:11 AM	#15
Gary H Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 2,267	I have had good results with Universal in Long Colt.

November 3, 2002, 12:03 PM	#16
Chemistry Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2001 Location: Central Alabama Posts: 158	For non-magnum handgun cartridges, I'd suggest taking a look at Vihtavuori N340. Almost as versatile as Hodgdon Universal Clays (not to be confused with Clays or International Clays), or Alliant Unique. A bit slower, but it burns exceptionally cleanly, and no muzzle flash. For magnum cartridges, Accurate Arms #7 seems to be a good performer for me. Similar performance as Alliant Blue Dot, but without the belching bright orange fireball.

November 3, 2002, 12:55 PM	#17
ryucasta Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 431	Anyone of the Vihtavouri pistol powders will burn clean. I’m currently using N320 for my fast burning powder loads and I used to use N350 and 3n37 as my slow burning powder loads but I have transitioned over to Hodgdon’s Longshot since it also clean burning and here in Southern California it sells for about $28.00 less than the Vihtavouri powders. __________________ Cheers, Raul Scarface/Tony Montana Says: Send me here. Send me there. This. That. Nothing you can do to me Harry, Castro didn’t do --- nothing...

November 4, 2002, 10:52 AM	#18
Robb Spence Junior Member Join Date: November 1, 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 3	Firing Line is Great! You guys are very helpful! I was aware of the different 'Clays' versions but that was good to point out as we can never be too safe in this hobby. I can't wait to try out the various combinations you all have offered. Thanks so much! __________________ Robb Spence

November 4, 2002, 05:31 PM	#19
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	One other note-these powders burn clean with jacketed bullets. Lead bullets & lube cause a great deal of the fouling we see.

November 7, 2002, 09:17 AM	#20
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	Don't forget: Everyone who shoots 44 mag must have at least 1 box of 255 grain wadcutters over 22 grains of 2400 at all times. Just ain't right not having that load around somehow............ __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

November 7, 2002, 12:34 PM	#21
Bacchus Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2001 Posts: 259	I agree with the recommendations of 2400 and Unique.

November 7, 2002, 02:04 PM	#22
Frohickey Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: People's Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 579	Whats 255gr wadcutters over 22grains of 2400? __________________ Frohickey -- TFL Alumni SigSauer, if you are listening, MAKE A DOUBLE-STACK 10mm PISTOL!

November 7, 2002, 05:43 PM	#23
Redneck2 Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2000 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 519	Surely you jest.... OK, I won't call you Shirley... loads like the 2400/255 are the standard "hard hitter" 44 Maggie loads I don't know that it's the "best", but I use AA #5 with a 255 Keith LSWC. I like it because I can use it for mid-range 45 LC, 45 ACP, and 10MM. It's very clean for using a lead bullet. As posted above, lead is always dirtier than jacketed. If you're using lead, a clear lube gives a MUCH cleaner burn than crayon type red or blue lubes IMO. The new powders like V V, Universal Clays, AA, give much cleaner burn than "old" powders like Unique, Red Dot, etc.

November 10, 2002, 11:50 AM	#24
Greg Mueller Junior Member Join Date: November 9, 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 13	I tried 2400 in my Super Blackhawk, but didn't care for all the noise and flash. I settled on 14.5 gr of Bluedot, behind the 240 gr semi jacketed, semi wadcutter. It's pretty mild, accurate and effective in my pistola