Hornady lnl vs Dillon 550/650

[kostyanj]

I'm in NJ.

I keep going back and forth. But I think I'm still leaning towards the LNL. In the current situation, I could sell the LNL if it doesn't do what I need it to and get the Dillon.

[schmellba99]

jmmorris - I own an LnL and have loaded thousands of rounds on it, both pistol and rifle. I still fail to understand what it is you are saying, or how it is somehow difficult to load rifle rounds because of the 1/2 index. I am really trying, but the mental picture fails me.

I am also convinced that the vast majority if issues with LnL unuts are completely user induced from people that did not pay attention to simple instructions. They are simple machines that generally operate just fine, especially when the user follows instructions and does not make massive adjustments on the rare occasion adjustment is required. I remember when I bought mine, the resident Dillon guys (I lived in AZ at the time, so the Dillon crowd was thick due to location to Dillon itself) did everything possible to convince me I was going to have problems. I think a lot of that has to do with percieved issues with any other brand as well.

Dillon makes great stuff, i just happen to know a lot of the price you pay is simply a "because we can charge that much" premium. They have a fair amount of issues, but have awesome customer service to make up for it.

And you simply cannot do anything on a Dillon that you can't do with an LnL or RCBS or even a LEE, save for maybe small differences in the over-inflated rounds per hour statistic. All of the do the same thing ultimately - and that is make quality ammo provided the operator does their job correctly.

[jmorris]

Maybe.

You could certainly sell a 650 and buy the LNL in any market.

The Dillon 650 I posted in #50 went for over $1800 on ebay a few weeks ago. I put that into a new 1050 setup.

[jmorris]

jmmorris - I own an LnL and have loaded thousands of rounds on it, both pistol and rifle. I still fail to understand what it is you are saying, or how it is somehow difficult to load rifle rounds because of the 1/2 index. I am really trying, but the mental picture fails me.

Long rifle case gets sized in #1 on the up stroke on #1 and primed on the down stroke with the shell plate 1/2 an index from lining up with the dies.

If the case that is charged with powder had a bullet placed on top of it at this point (ram down 1/2 index away from bullet seating die) as you raised the ram, the tip of the bullet would be above the bottom of the die before the index finished lining the shell plate up with the die. This knocked the bullet off.

[jmorris]

And you simply cannot do anything on a Dillon that you can't do with an LnL or RCBS or even a LEE

Go find me some videos of any of them that can do this.

http://s121.photobucket.com/user/jmo...O0114.mp4.html

Before you say "well that's a 1050." go back to post #50 and find me a video of an LNL, RCBS or Lee that can do the same thing.

[schmellba99]

If the case that is charged with powder had a bullet placed on top of it at this point (ram down 1/2 index away from bullet seating die) as you raised the ram, the tip of the bullet would be above the bottom of the die before the index finished lining the shell plate up with the die. This knocked the bullet off.

So you are blaming your technique on the equipment? I do something really, really simple - as the shell is going on the up stroke into the seating die, I place the bullet in the neck of the rifle case here. Then I finish the upstroke and perfectly seat the projectile to my desired depth. The next station is my FCD die, and I'm done. Better than factory ammo with no problems.

I'm still failing to see the issue.

And yes, comparing a 1050 to a 550, RCBS or LNL is kind of like comparing apples to oranges. They are completely different machines.

Again - Dillon makes great stuff. But so does Hornady. So does RCBS. So does Lee (to an extent). As a few other posters have pointed out, it's pretty much a Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Jeep/Toyota/Nissan/whatever your favorite car manufacturer is type of argument.

[Shootest]

And you simply cannot do anything on a Dillon that you can't do with an LnL or RCBS or even a LEE, save for maybe small differences in the over-inflated rounds per hour statistic.

No Lee or RCBS ever made can produce the quantity of a Dillon XL 650 with case feed, the LNL comes close if you buy the extras needed, but then the price difference is small indeed. And that is not inflated in the least. Most of the top competitive shooters load on Dillon machines. So when the quality and the quantity are more important than the price, the pros choose Dillon.
Those who dispute that are just the ones that can’t come up with the money for the Dillon.

[kostyanj]

Originally Posted by Shootest

No Lee or RCBS ever made can produce the quantity of a Dillon XL 650 with case feed, the LNL comes close if you buy the extras needed, but then the price difference is small indeed. And that is not inflated in the least. Most of the top competitive shooters load on Dillon machines. So when the quality and the quantity are more important than the price, the pros choose Dillon.
Those who dispute that are just the ones that can’t come up with the money for the Dillon.

You contradict yourself in that statement. You say that the price difference is small but then go on to say that those who don't buy the Dillon can't afford it.

As far as the price difference goes, the 650 comes with a case feeder tube already. If you buy the addition to the lnl, there is no difference in price.

[schmellba99]

Most of the top competitive shooters load on Dillon machines. So when the quality and the quantity are more important than the price, the pros choose Dillon.

Those who dispute that are just the ones that can’t come up with the money for the Dillon.

I get that you love your Dillon, and with good reason - they make outstanding equipment. But it is statements like these that make me compare most Dillon homers to Glock homers - and that is that no matter what, you will see blue and only blue and nothing but blue and just cannot allow yourself to even consider that something other than blue just may be as good as blue or (gasp!) better for somebody else than blue.

But for one to be perfectly honest, the single biggest reason Dillon is the Gatorade of progressive presses is simple - they have been the big dog the longest. Hey, I don't begrudge them that one bit - they were smart, identified a need in a specific market, created a solution to that need and did it very well. They have great customer service and make a lot of other products that are top quality (hell, I have blue right next to my red right next to my green on my loading bench.....)

Hornady LnL is a relative youngster in the progressive world, as is the RCBS. It is kind of hard for there to be anywhere near the following that the old dog has simply due to a factor of time. And, to be completely fair to Dillon, they deserve that for being smart enough to capitalize on that fact before anybody else really even thought about it. But simply because it is not blue does not make it poor quality or somehow sub-par to comparable blue equipment. And if you are honest, you'll realize that statement is true. If you are just too into blue, you'll scoff at the statement.

I could have come up with the money for a Dillon 550 just as easily as I did for the LnL - both were pretty much the same price at the time. But the promo for the LnL gave me 1000 projectiles of my choice (I chose .308 150 gr FMJ's and have since added another 900 each .451" 185 gr XTP's through other promotions - all at a cost of about $65 in shipping - pretty hard to beat that), and that combined with my more than positive experience with Hornady in general steered me towards the LnL. And I haven't looked back, even with internet and real world peer pressure/scoffing from the guys that want the entire world to be blue and only blue.

I've run some Dillon machines, and while they are great machines - they are no different when you get down to it than the LnL in that there are quirks, mechanical flaws, design flaws and some simply awesome characteristics on each machine.

Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Jeep/Toyota/Nissan..........

[Ben Dover]

I've used Dillons, first a 450 and later a 650 for decades. I have been completely satisfied with both.

I even load my match grade ammo on my 650. It's jst as accurate as that loaded on my Redding Ulramag press.

[jmorris]

So you are blaming your technique on the equipment? I do something really, really simple - as the shell is going on the up stroke into the seating die, I place the bullet in the neck of the rifle case here.

As long as the tip of the bullet (with the setup I had) is already inside of the die, that would work.

You are not going to get a bullet feeder to work like that.

And yes, comparing a 1050 to a 550, RCBS or LNL is kind of like comparing apples to oranges. They are completely different machines.

I still challenge you to find an LNL that can do what the 650 in post #50 is doing. This is because an LNL is incapable of doing what that 650 is doing, even with pistol rounds.

[kostyanj]

You mean like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHiknwpGoXo

[jmorris]

That is as close as you can get with the LNL.

What you can't do is keep the powder check die AND seat THEN crimp in two different stations.

With the LNL if you want to seat/crimp in two steps with a bullet feeder, you have to loose the PC die.

Not to mention he has to jack with/has malfunctions at least twice in less than 10 rounds....13:19,13:38 and 14:03 in the video. Not to mention you have to watch for everything going wrong AND keep an eye on the PC die he is using where the Dillion you listen for, trouble is invited to the party.

[schmellba99]

We get it. You don't like Hornady and would name your child Dillon given the opportunity.

But you are really starting to split hairs with the capabilities of one over the other, and you are seriously overcomplicating what all is involved by using an LnL. It really is not that complicated - the sky is not falling.

I like how you try to magnify the "malfunctions" in the video. 2 of them are attributed to the stop and start nature of the explanatory video, and the other is hardly classified as a malfunction because a lack of brass in one station does not equate to production stoppage or physical adjustments to the equipment.

I just googled "Dillon 650 malfunction". Interesting that there are pages upon pages upon pages of malfunctions of every make and model associated with Dillon 650 machines. Weird, it seems to happen to blue paint as well......

[jmorris]

My kid isn't named Dillon but did feel I needed to inform that they were different.

I have had two LNL's as indicated in previous posts. I also have at least one of every Dillon on my bench, so I thought an informed opinion was worth voicing. Not like I am a " hater" and talking out of my butt.

The malfunctions that the fellow had could be "user induced" but the video I shot in post #50 was with a cell phone in the left hand and right hand running everything else. Note, the fact that it just worked, though and had more capability.

Edit, if the lack of brass is caused from the machine not getting it into the shell plate, that is a a malfunction.

[schmellba99]

It is a malfunction in the sense that the operation did not work as designed, but not a malfunction in the sense of the word, and in your implication, that the machine, process or production was halted as a result. It simply is an extra pull of the lever. I would be willing to bet that the 650 is guilty of similar "malfunctions" as well.

Your video does not come up on my phone, so I cannot comment on your system that appears to be highly modified based on the other pictures.

All that being said, I can see already where I would make simple mods to the shell feeding system on an LnL based on the video of the ammo plant alone. Nothing major, but mods just the same.

[jmorris]

I guess without seeing what we are talking about makes it difficult to see how simple it is. It's just a GSI tool head on an otherwise stock 650.

I look at a malfunction as a stop in production, nothing more.

If you have to spend time "fixing" something, it is not saving you whatever time it takes you to perform the "fix". At that point your production falls off.

Kind of like test scores, throw a zero in with two A's, and your not an A student any longer.

In short get to a computer where you can watch both videos and comment.

[jmorris]

It is a malfunction in the sense that the operation did not work as designed, but not a malfunction in the sense of the word, and in your implication, that the machine, process or production was halted as a result.

On the other hand, I don't think we are on the same page.

[David Bachelder]

I chose the LNL over the Dillon and price was the driver. The reviews on the LNL were good. I most likely will never have a case feeder, they are loud and expensive. My buddy has one and its hard for me to stay in the same room with it. I most likely will never have a bullet feeder. I cast my own and the lube would just mess things up. I don't reload enough ammo to justify the Dillon and if supplies don't come back to the shelf soon I wont be reloading at all. This appliess to both Dillon and Hornady.

I know Dillon makes an outstanding press, I read about it a lot. I also know that Hornady makes an outstanding press. Hornady, Dillon and RCBS have outstanding service departments. LEE and Redding probably have the same, I dont know.

I haven't had the LNL long, less than 500 rounds, so I'm a very long way from an expert.

[Waldog]

Wise choice. Love my LNL. You will be happy with your decision and don't anyone tell you otherwise.

[armsmaster270]

I'm happy with my dillon 550B

[psupaul]

I just inherited a Dillon 550, im reading the manual and on the back is a Bill of Rights which includes a statement that it is your right to test it at your bench for 30 days and then you can send it back if it doesn't measure up. Not sure if this is still valid, but I assume so.

[Shane Tuttle]

psupaul, I'm not sure if it will apply to you since it was an inheritance. If you bought it, I'm willing to be a buffalo nickel their statement rings true. Dillon doesn't mess around when it comes to standing by their product.

In the recent posts, I'm seeing a LOT of user preferences being defined as what makes one objectively better than the other. Being able to cram pack what is normally a several step process into two isn't exactly something concrete enough to say one setup is better for all. Problems with powder being thrown out of the case all the time is, IMO.

I personally don't rely on any progressive press to load for rifle. Not really conducive for accurate enough loads for my taste. Consumers use progressive presses to load pistol, primarily.

Originally Posted by schmellba99

Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Jeep/Toyota/Nissan..........

No kidding...