Any insight on Front Sight

H&K4Life · October 8, 2005, 11:20 PM

Hey guys,
I'll be participating in a defensive handgun course at Front Sight soon, any advice?

LoadIt · October 8, 2005, 11:31 PM

My Uncle has taken many courses at Front Sight. He says they are very intense. Upon arriving at Front Sight, my Uncle thought he knew alot about shooting handguns. He quickly found out how to improve what he was doing right and correct what he was doing wrong. Then a helluva lot more. Front Sight is not so much about teaching as it is conditioning.

AAshooter · October 9, 2005, 10:00 AM

I have taken several courses at FS. I would agree with Loadit other than I am not quite sure what his last sentence meant.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised how much you will learn in the 4-days you are there. I wouldn't plan on to many extra activities while you are there. They are full days and the remainder is consumed with dry practice, etc. I would suggest you stay in Pahrump to save some time on the commute.

wayneinFL · October 9, 2005, 10:05 AM

I've taken a course at Front Sight. I recommend them; they have one of the most professional organizations I've seen.

Fly in a day early (airline lost my bags; I thought I was going to be throwing rocks at the targets). Bring a spare gun, lots of water, a jacket and your lunch to the range. There's a casino-hotel in Pahrump that's real cheap- I wish I could remember the name of it. The ones Front Sight recommended were $50-60 a night. I took a chance and went there without any reservations. I found the hotel in Pahrump for $31 and car rental at the airport las vegas was $19 a day.

Practice at night in the hotel. Lock ammo away- of course, follow all rules for dry fire practice.

Have fun!

Desertscout1 · October 9, 2005, 10:44 AM

Go ahead and go to Pahrump to get a room. If you stay at Saddlewest or the Nugget, you'll get a tremendous discount for being an FS student. I go out there fairly regularly so if you have any questions at all about the trip, let me know here or you can e-mail me.
I hope to make at least one more trip before the end of the year.

444 · October 9, 2005, 04:39 PM

You are in for a very good time.
You won't believe how good you can get in four days.

It won't last if you don't practice, but at the end of four days you are amazing.
I have taken classes at other nationally known gun schools and honestly think the HANDGUN class at Frontsight was the best I have taken.
The weather will probably be in the 50s-60s during the day and fairly cool at night. Be prepared for wind and blowing sand.
I would recommend that you bring a Camelback to keep yourself hydrated. I wear mine all the time and drink from it every time I check my targets. I use this routine so I remember to constantly drink and stay hydrated. Every time I have been there, you had to bring your own lunch. There is a grocery store in Pahrump as well as a number of convienience stores. I recomend that you bring enough food to eat three or more small meals throughout the day to keep your energy up. Powerbars or something like that are good. I have also brought stuff like cookies that I kept eating all day.

Bring sunblock. Bring GOOD sunglasses that are rated as safety glasses. You will really regret it if you don't bring sunglasses. You will be required to wear eye protection: bring something good so you don't have to spend four days trying to function while wearing some ill fitting, cheap industrial safety glasses: I wear Oakley perscription sunglasses as well as clear perscription glasses. These arn't cheap but you can't shoot if you can't see and no money in the world is worth losing your eyesight over. Also bring some eye drops/eye wash to wash dirt out of your eyes to keep your vision sharp.
Bring a magazine loading tool to save the fingers.
Give some thought on what you want to wear for a cover garmet. The second two days of the class, you will be shooting everything from concealment. If you wear a sweatshirt, it will be more difficult to draw IMO. If you wear something like a flannel shirt, it will also be more difficult to draw because it is light and difficult to toss out of the way. BUT, you might want to consider trying different attire to get some practice with different clothing since you don't wear the same thing every day at home. The technique for drawing with a sweatshirt is different from drawing with a coat that is open in the front.
If you have any questions, need help, get into a jam while you are here, I would be happy to help. I lived in Pahrump for about five years up until the first of this year. I have taken 4-5 classes at Frontsight and got a DG in the four day handgun class. I am also a Frontsight First Family Member.

ReconDoc242 · October 12, 2005, 06:19 PM

all these are good recommendations. Also dont forget to pack a lunch and a few snacks.
-Doc

H&K4Life · October 18, 2005, 01:52 AM

That is/was some damn good advice guys. I would have totally forgotten about making reservations BEFORE I got there. Luckily I can drive there from the Republic of California. LIke I told Doc, I went ahead and signed on for the First Family membership (buy one, get one free).

Anybody in need of a discounted First Family membership (with 4 certificates)?

I am already trying to "maneuver" the work schedule so I can do the combat shotgun.....it the combat shotgun just as good as the Defensive Handgun?

AAshooter · October 18, 2005, 10:40 AM

The shotgun classes are a lot of fun. They are not nearly as popular as the handgun classes (no surprise). Sometimes you will get in a class with just one relay and you get a lot of extra shooting in.

I would encourage you to get your basic handgun, shotgun and rifle classes in so you can take the night classes around the 4th of July Celebration. They are some great classes.

slicers63 · October 20, 2005, 01:13 AM

In addition to the recommendation already mentioned take your own chair. The chairs they have are very flimsy.

AAshooter · October 20, 2005, 11:15 PM

Not sure when you were there last but the range chairs have been upgraded and the new ones are better. I still suggest taking your own.

H&K4Life · October 21, 2005, 02:13 AM

Tick...tock......Tick....tock

Three weeks remaining before I go. Got the gear: belt, 3 mag holders, kydex plastic holster (now I know why guys choose leather over plastic) surefire flashlight (I hope this is a good light), MREs, my cool-guy eyes, ears, and hydration system (It feels as though I am gearing up for an OP!). No hotel reservation yet, can't decide on whether I want to do the "casino gambling" thing or not.

However, I must confess. When it came down to choosing a weapon. For one hell bent on being an honor graduate, I decided to go with the 1911's......and NOT my USP compact .40's.<shame..shame..shame>

I guess I need to change my name huh?

LoadIt · October 21, 2005, 02:28 PM

You probably wont have time to hit the casinos. These courses are eleven hour days.

It would be a good idea to stay in your hotel room and dry practice.

I am attaching a handout on the importance of hydration from Front Sight. Also says no caffine or alcohol.

H&K4Life · October 27, 2005, 04:32 PM

At what level do I need to be at to in order to have a real shot at Honor Graduate? ...or is it simply like the top 1% of the class?

AAshooter · October 27, 2005, 07:54 PM

You have to be solid in your shooting and weapons handling. Through several classes I seemed to alternative failing to acheive DG by either shooting poorly (generally the headshots or distance) or hosing the malfunction/reload drills. It took a while to nail both. Take seriously the chances to dry practice.

I have seen many experienced shooters miss DG'ing the course. In fact, some don't even hit graduate level. On the other hand, I took a class with an ex-LEO that shot the test clean with his snub nose .38/.357(?) revolver. I don't recall how he did on his malfunction/reload drills. He did DG.

The bottom line is don't worry about the test. Some of the people that learn the most don't do particularily well on the test. And, remember . . . it is only one shot at a time. If you are tracking your score, your focus is in the wrong place.

As I recall, 5-10% of a class will DG. Of course, YMMV dramatically. It depends on the class.

Ron R. · October 29, 2005, 09:12 PM

I attended FS earlier this hear and had a great experience. It was my first formal handgun training (other than a 1 day classs at a local range)

My shooting shooting skills improved dramatically and felt comfortable drawing from concealment by the time the class was finished. I still shoot 1-2 a month and thanks to my training can out shoot most of my peers. (many with much more experience)

About the test on the last day. I was pretty worn out by the last day and had a headache and didn't shoot that well. I would have liked to do better but I left knowing I had the skill regardless of the test.

H&K4Life · October 31, 2005, 09:59 PM

Yeah, I hear you guys on the DG thing. I am realllllllly looking forward to FINALLY going. The only reason I even want the DG so it is a prereq to take the advance handgun course. Yeah, I should just focus on getting good training......but.......but........n/m

10 days remaining!

Desertscout1 · October 31, 2005, 11:28 PM

If you want to get the most out of your training and do well, FORGET THE DG THING!!
If you dwell on it and make that the focus of your trip, you will have wasted a trip. Even achieving graduate status is a hell of lot more of an accomplishment than most of the internet commandos will EVER see. Take it as it comes and be happy with it. I can assure you that DGing the skills test is no easy feat. Do not get down about it if you don't make it.

I'll be going on 17-18 December for the Advanced Tactical Handgun. Maybe we can meet up there some day.

Good luck and have fun!

October 8, 2005, 11:20 PM	#1
H&K4Life Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Posts: 77	Any insight on Front Sight Hey guys, I'll be participating in a defensive handgun course at Front Sight soon, any advice?

October 8, 2005, 11:31 PM	#2
LoadIt Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 269	Forget Everything You Think You Know My Uncle has taken many courses at Front Sight. He says they are very intense. Upon arriving at Front Sight, my Uncle thought he knew alot about shooting handguns. He quickly found out how to improve what he was doing right and correct what he was doing wrong. Then a helluva lot more. Front Sight is not so much about teaching as it is conditioning.

October 9, 2005, 10:00 AM	#3
AAshooter Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2001 Posts: 379	I have taken several courses at FS. I would agree with Loadit other than I am not quite sure what his last sentence meant. I think you will be pleasantly surprised how much you will learn in the 4-days you are there. I wouldn't plan on to many extra activities while you are there. They are full days and the remainder is consumed with dry practice, etc. I would suggest you stay in Pahrump to save some time on the commute. __________________ Play hard, shoot often, leave well worn guns!

October 9, 2005, 04:39 PM	#6
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	You are in for a very good time. You won't believe how good you can get in four days. It won't last if you don't practice, but at the end of four days you are amazing. I have taken classes at other nationally known gun schools and honestly think the HANDGUN class at Frontsight was the best I have taken. The weather will probably be in the 50s-60s during the day and fairly cool at night. Be prepared for wind and blowing sand. I would recommend that you bring a Camelback to keep yourself hydrated. I wear mine all the time and drink from it every time I check my targets. I use this routine so I remember to constantly drink and stay hydrated. Every time I have been there, you had to bring your own lunch. There is a grocery store in Pahrump as well as a number of convienience stores. I recomend that you bring enough food to eat three or more small meals throughout the day to keep your energy up. Powerbars or something like that are good. I have also brought stuff like cookies that I kept eating all day. Bring sunblock. Bring GOOD sunglasses that are rated as safety glasses. You will really regret it if you don't bring sunglasses. You will be required to wear eye protection: bring something good so you don't have to spend four days trying to function while wearing some ill fitting, cheap industrial safety glasses: I wear Oakley perscription sunglasses as well as clear perscription glasses. These arn't cheap but you can't shoot if you can't see and no money in the world is worth losing your eyesight over. Also bring some eye drops/eye wash to wash dirt out of your eyes to keep your vision sharp. Bring a magazine loading tool to save the fingers. Give some thought on what you want to wear for a cover garmet. The second two days of the class, you will be shooting everything from concealment. If you wear a sweatshirt, it will be more difficult to draw IMO. If you wear something like a flannel shirt, it will also be more difficult to draw because it is light and difficult to toss out of the way. BUT, you might want to consider trying different attire to get some practice with different clothing since you don't wear the same thing every day at home. The technique for drawing with a sweatshirt is different from drawing with a coat that is open in the front. If you have any questions, need help, get into a jam while you are here, I would be happy to help. I lived in Pahrump for about five years up until the first of this year. I have taken 4-5 classes at Frontsight and got a DG in the four day handgun class. I am also a Frontsight First Family Member. __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.

October 12, 2005, 06:19 PM	#7
ReconDoc242 Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Where ever uncle Sam sends my family Posts: 22	all these are good recommendations. Also dont forget to pack a lunch and a few snacks. -Doc __________________ S.S.D.

October 9, 2005, 10:05 AM	#4
wayneinFL Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2004 Posts: 1,944	I've taken a course at Front Sight. I recommend them; they have one of the most professional organizations I've seen. Fly in a day early (airline lost my bags; I thought I was going to be throwing rocks at the targets). Bring a spare gun, lots of water, a jacket and your lunch to the range. There's a casino-hotel in Pahrump that's real cheap- I wish I could remember the name of it. The ones Front Sight recommended were $50-60 a night. I took a chance and went there without any reservations. I found the hotel in Pahrump for $31 and car rental at the airport las vegas was $19 a day. Practice at night in the hotel. Lock ammo away- of course, follow all rules for dry fire practice. Have fun!

October 9, 2005, 10:44 AM	#5
Desertscout1 Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: NM Posts: 421	Go ahead and go to Pahrump to get a room. If you stay at Saddlewest or the Nugget, you'll get a tremendous discount for being an FS student. I go out there fairly regularly so if you have any questions at all about the trip, let me know here or you can e-mail me. I hope to make at least one more trip before the end of the year.

October 18, 2005, 01:52 AM	#8
H&K4Life Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Posts: 77	That is/was some damn good advice guys. I would have totally forgotten about making reservations BEFORE I got there. Luckily I can drive there from the Republic of California. LIke I told Doc, I went ahead and signed on for the First Family membership (buy one, get one free). Anybody in need of a discounted First Family membership (with 4 certificates)? I am already trying to "maneuver" the work schedule so I can do the combat shotgun.....it the combat shotgun just as good as the Defensive Handgun?

October 18, 2005, 10:40 AM	#9
AAshooter Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2001 Posts: 379	The shotgun classes are a lot of fun. They are not nearly as popular as the handgun classes (no surprise). Sometimes you will get in a class with just one relay and you get a lot of extra shooting in. I would encourage you to get your basic handgun, shotgun and rifle classes in so you can take the night classes around the 4th of July Celebration. They are some great classes. __________________ Play hard, shoot often, leave well worn guns!

October 20, 2005, 01:13 AM	#10
slicers63 Member Join Date: December 11, 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 28	In addition to the recommendation already mentioned take your own chair. The chairs they have are very flimsy.

October 20, 2005, 11:15 PM	#11
AAshooter Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2001 Posts: 379	Not sure when you were there last but the range chairs have been upgraded and the new ones are better. I still suggest taking your own. __________________ Play hard, shoot often, leave well worn guns!

October 21, 2005, 02:13 AM	#12
H&K4Life Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Posts: 77	Tick...tock......Tick....tock Three weeks remaining before I go. Got the gear: belt, 3 mag holders, kydex plastic holster (now I know why guys choose leather over plastic) surefire flashlight (I hope this is a good light), MREs, my cool-guy eyes, ears, and hydration system (It feels as though I am gearing up for an OP!). No hotel reservation yet, can't decide on whether I want to do the "casino gambling" thing or not. However, I must confess. When it came down to choosing a weapon. For one hell bent on being an honor graduate, I decided to go with the 1911's......and NOT my USP compact .40's.<shame..shame..shame> I guess I need to change my name huh?

October 27, 2005, 04:32 PM	#14
H&K4Life Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Posts: 77	At what level do I need to be at to in order to have a real shot at Honor Graduate? ...or is it simply like the top 1% of the class?

October 27, 2005, 07:54 PM	#15
AAshooter Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2001 Posts: 379	You have to be solid in your shooting and weapons handling. Through several classes I seemed to alternative failing to acheive DG by either shooting poorly (generally the headshots or distance) or hosing the malfunction/reload drills. It took a while to nail both. Take seriously the chances to dry practice. I have seen many experienced shooters miss DG'ing the course. In fact, some don't even hit graduate level. On the other hand, I took a class with an ex-LEO that shot the test clean with his snub nose .38/.357(?) revolver. I don't recall how he did on his malfunction/reload drills. He did DG. The bottom line is don't worry about the test. Some of the people that learn the most don't do particularily well on the test. And, remember . . . it is only one shot at a time. If you are tracking your score, your focus is in the wrong place. As I recall, 5-10% of a class will DG. Of course, YMMV dramatically. It depends on the class. __________________ Play hard, shoot often, leave well worn guns!

October 29, 2005, 09:12 PM	#16
Ron R. Junior Member Join Date: March 4, 1999 Posts: 7	I attended FS earlier this hear and had a great experience. It was my first formal handgun training (other than a 1 day classs at a local range) My shooting shooting skills improved dramatically and felt comfortable drawing from concealment by the time the class was finished. I still shoot 1-2 a month and thanks to my training can out shoot most of my peers. (many with much more experience) About the test on the last day. I was pretty worn out by the last day and had a headache and didn't shoot that well. I would have liked to do better but I left knowing I had the skill regardless of the test.

October 31, 2005, 09:59 PM	#17
H&K4Life Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Posts: 77	Yeah, I hear you guys on the DG thing. I am realllllllly looking forward to FINALLY going. The only reason I even want the DG so it is a prereq to take the advance handgun course. Yeah, I should just focus on getting good training......but.......but........n/m 10 days remaining!

October 31, 2005, 11:28 PM	#18
Desertscout1 Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: NM Posts: 421	If you want to get the most out of your training and do well, FORGET THE DG THING!! If you dwell on it and make that the focus of your trip, you will have wasted a trip. Even achieving graduate status is a hell of lot more of an accomplishment than most of the internet commandos will EVER see. Take it as it comes and be happy with it. I can assure you that DGing the skills test is no easy feat. Do not get down about it if you don't make it. I'll be going on 17-18 December for the Advanced Tactical Handgun. Maybe we can meet up there some day. Good luck and have fun! __________________ Desertscout Southwest Shooting Authority Colts and Kimbers are what you show your friends. Glocks are what you show your enemies.