7.5 Swiss reloading problems

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 06:06 PM

Trying to reload some of my 7.5 swiss brass for my k31. I had shot 50 through a different k31 (since sold) and now full length sizing for this current k31. Using lee dies as directed. The case will not seat in the chamber, not COL issue as ive tried just the brass. Max trim length calls for 2.85 which is right where the brass measures. The brass simply wont fit. Ideas?

hodaka · April 13, 2016, 06:17 PM

Mine has a very tight chamber. Make sure the case goes all the way into the die and it bottoms out on the shareholder. Also have you tried trimming a bit too short to see if those chamber?

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 06:55 PM

trimmed to 2.75 still wont seat. It seems the should comes up higher on the full length sized case as compared to new factory ammo with fits just fine...

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 06:58 PM

in fact the length from base of case to top of shoulder is .025 longer than factory. I'm guessing its the dies?

RaySendero · April 13, 2016, 07:04 PM

rbf,

If you have any of those fired cases that have NOT been resized ,

Then measure and compare the fired to the fired/resized cases.

I suspect you do not have the lee size die screwed down far enough to bump the shoulder back.

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 07:16 PM

the lee die is down to shell holder and then 1/2 turn. I just tried it with 1.5 full turns past touching shell holder and still same problem. NON sized cases still fit, albeit snug, while full length sized the bold is still 1/2 inch from closing. wear marks on cases that wont fit show on the shoulder area. Thanks for the help thus far!

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 07:17 PM

the measurement from non sized case is in between factory and sized cases about .014 above factory.

hodaka · April 13, 2016, 07:18 PM

Does factory ammo fit?

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 07:21 PM

like a champ

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 07:22 PM

ive shot about 100 reload rounds (new brass, fired formed, then necksized), 50 gp 11 and 50 privi ammo. first time ive had issues.

hodaka · April 13, 2016, 07:24 PM

Sounds like a die problem. I'd call Lee.

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 07:26 PM

Agreed. Ticket has been sent. Thanks for the help!

RaySendero · April 13, 2016, 07:27 PM

Quote:

rbf420:

the measurement from non sized case is in between factory and sized cases about .014 above factory.

OK check my understanding:

The resized case is 0.014" longer from the rim base to the top of the shoulder than the factory.

???

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 07:33 PM

That is the non-resized, the full length sized brass is up tp .025 from rim base to top of shoulder

RaySendero · April 13, 2016, 07:36 PM

OK, sorry

How about the 2 case diameters?
Measure just below the shoulder.

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 07:51 PM

resized case is .007 larger than factory

RaySendero · April 13, 2016, 08:02 PM

How about fired unsized vs resized?

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 08:04 PM

sorry fired resized vs unsized is .007 difference
factory vs resized is .016 difference
long day...

RaySendero · April 13, 2016, 08:07 PM

Larger/Smaller?

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 08:31 PM

sorry larger everything is larger than factory

lonniemike · April 13, 2016, 08:54 PM

throw away the one shot spray lube. Try a good lube on the fingers. See how that works for ya. See what a drop of caster oil does. Even through you've turned the die down more, I'd suspect your cases are still is not being sized down far enough. Can you see a gap between the shell holder and the die at the top of the resizing stroke? You shouldn't. A visit to SwissRifles.com message forums can be helpful sometimes.Best

RaySendero · April 13, 2016, 08:56 PM

Yeah, Would be easier if I was there helping w/ measurements.

Compare to this: Factory - My Fired - My Lee Size Die

Diameter just below shoulder = 0.457" - 0.477" - 0.458"
Bottom of rim up to start of shoulder = 1.753" - same - same
Bottom of rim up to start of neck = 1.870" - same - same

Resizing the shoulder area from 0.477"fired back to 0.458",
first pushes the shoulder forward til die pushes the should back to factory.

My thinking was that your die wasn't pushing the shoulder back to 1.753"/1.870" respectively.

**44 AMP** · April 13, 2016, 08:57 PM

Have you tried sizing a case WITHOUT the decapping stem? OR lubricating the inside of the case necks? (graphite?)

What MIGHT be happening is your cases are being stretched on their way OUT of the sizing die by a tight fitting expander ball on the decapping stem.

IF you are sure you have the die set correctly, size a couple of cases without the expander ball in place and see what they measure and how they fit the chamber.

Also, trim your brass to 0.01 shorter than max length. This is the "trim to" length and it does NO harm and allows for variations in individual chambers.

rbf420 · April 13, 2016, 09:08 PM

And the winner is!? 44AMP

took the decapper / expanding ball out and sized, whala fit perfectly!

**44 AMP** · April 15, 2016, 01:09 AM

Congrats on identifying the cause of the problem!

NOW, what are you going to do about it??

Lubing the inside of the case necks is a PITA, done the old way with brushes. But, it does work. Graphite is the preferred choice.

However, I have found that using the spray lube (I now use the pump stuff from RCBS) with the cases in a flat box, sprayed and stirred a couple times, the spray lube does a pretty fair job of getting inside the case necks, and its usually enough to prevent case stretching.

another option is to lube the expander ball itself, every few rounds. Tedious, but it should also work.

What lube /system are you currently using?

April 13, 2016, 06:06 PM	#1
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	7.5 Swiss reloading problems Trying to reload some of my 7.5 swiss brass for my k31. I had shot 50 through a different k31 (since sold) and now full length sizing for this current k31. Using lee dies as directed. The case will not seat in the chamber, not COL issue as ive tried just the brass. Max trim length calls for 2.85 which is right where the brass measures. The brass simply wont fit. Ideas? __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 13, 2016, 06:55 PM	#3
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	trimmed to 2.75 still wont seat. It seems the should comes up higher on the full length sized case as compared to new factory ammo with fits just fine... __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 13, 2016, 06:58 PM	#4
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	in fact the length from base of case to top of shoulder is .025 longer than factory. I'm guessing its the dies? __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 13, 2016, 07:04 PM	#5
RaySendero Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2010 Location: US South Posts: 857	rbf, If you have any of those fired cases that have NOT been resized , Then measure and compare the fired to the fired/resized cases. I suspect you do not have the lee size die screwed down far enough to bump the shoulder back. __________________ *Ray*

April 13, 2016, 07:16 PM	#6
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	the lee die is down to shell holder and then 1/2 turn. I just tried it with 1.5 full turns past touching shell holder and still same problem. NON sized cases still fit, albeit snug, while full length sized the bold is still 1/2 inch from closing. wear marks on cases that wont fit show on the shoulder area. Thanks for the help thus far! __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 13, 2016, 06:17 PM	#2
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Mine has a very tight chamber. Make sure the case goes all the way into the die and it bottoms out on the shareholder. Also have you tried trimming a bit too short to see if those chamber?

April 13, 2016, 07:17 PM	#7
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	the measurement from non sized case is in between factory and sized cases about .014 above factory. __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 13, 2016, 07:18 PM	#8
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Does factory ammo fit?

April 13, 2016, 07:21 PM	#9
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	like a champ __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 13, 2016, 07:22 PM	#10
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	ive shot about 100 reload rounds (new brass, fired formed, then necksized), 50 gp 11 and 50 privi ammo. first time ive had issues. __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 13, 2016, 07:24 PM	#11
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Sounds like a die problem. I'd call Lee.

April 13, 2016, 07:26 PM	#12
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	Agreed. Ticket has been sent. Thanks for the help! __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 13, 2016, 07:33 PM	#14
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	That is the non-resized, the full length sized brass is up tp .025 from rim base to top of shoulder __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 13, 2016, 07:36 PM	#15
RaySendero Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2010 Location: US South Posts: 857	OK, sorry How about the 2 case diameters? Measure just below the shoulder. __________________ *Ray*

April 13, 2016, 07:51 PM	#16
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	resized case is .007 larger than factory __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 13, 2016, 08:02 PM	#17
RaySendero Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2010 Location: US South Posts: 857	How about fired unsized vs resized? __________________ *Ray*

April 13, 2016, 08:04 PM	#18
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	sorry fired resized vs unsized is .007 difference factory vs resized is .016 difference long day... __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 13, 2016, 08:07 PM	#19
RaySendero Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2010 Location: US South Posts: 857	Larger/Smaller? __________________ *Ray*

April 13, 2016, 08:31 PM	#20
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	sorry larger everything is larger than factory __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 13, 2016, 08:54 PM	#21
lonniemike Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2005 Posts: 138	throw away the one shot spray lube. Try a good lube on the fingers. See how that works for ya. See what a drop of caster oil does. Even through you've turned the die down more, I'd suspect your cases are still is not being sized down far enough. Can you see a gap between the shell holder and the die at the top of the resizing stroke? You shouldn't. A visit to SwissRifles.com message forums can be helpful sometimes.Best

April 13, 2016, 08:56 PM	#22
RaySendero Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2010 Location: US South Posts: 857	Yeah, Would be easier if I was there helping w/ measurements. Compare to this: Factory - My Fired - My Lee Size Die Diameter just below shoulder = 0.457" - 0.477" - 0.458" Bottom of rim up to start of shoulder = 1.753" - same - same Bottom of rim up to start of neck = 1.870" - same - same Resizing the shoulder area from 0.477"fired back to 0.458", first pushes the shoulder forward til die pushes the should back to factory. My thinking was that your die wasn't pushing the shoulder back to 1.753"/1.870" respectively. __________________ *Ray*

April 13, 2016, 08:57 PM	#23
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	Have you tried sizing a case WITHOUT the decapping stem? OR lubricating the inside of the case necks? (graphite?) What MIGHT be happening is your cases are being stretched on their way OUT of the sizing die by a tight fitting expander ball on the decapping stem. IF you are sure you have the die set correctly, size a couple of cases without the expander ball in place and see what they measure and how they fit the chamber. Also, trim your brass to 0.01 shorter than max length. This is the "trim to" length and it does NO harm and allows for variations in individual chambers. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 13, 2016, 09:08 PM	#24
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	And the winner is!? 44AMP took the decapper / expanding ball out and sized, whala fit perfectly! __________________ My Calibers- 9mm, .38spl, .357 mag, .45 acp, 30/06, 303 brit, 7.7 jap, 7.5 french.

April 15, 2016, 01:09 AM	#25
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	takes a small bow... Congrats on identifying the cause of the problem! NOW, what are you going to do about it?? Lubing the inside of the case necks is a PITA, done the old way with brushes. But, it does work. Graphite is the preferred choice. However, I have found that using the spray lube (I now use the pump stuff from RCBS) with the cases in a flat box, sprayed and stirred a couple times, the spray lube does a pretty fair job of getting inside the case necks, and its usually enough to prevent case stretching. another option is to lube the expander ball itself, every few rounds. Tedious, but it should also work. What lube /system are you currently using? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.