a funny one at the gun shop the other day

[champ198]

so im in the markey for a new Glock 23.
so went to one of the local gun shops close to me.
been in there quite a bit and for the most part the guys are pretty good with their stuff. they carry quite a bit of reloading stuff as well...so i was jsut wonderin around lookin at stuff and the guy behind the counter gets to talkin about how prices on ammo keep going up.
i tell him im glad i reload and dont have to worry much about that.....he proceeds to tell me how he can buy a case of el cheapo 9mm cheaper than he can load them...tells me this cheap ammo is like 1000 per case....and then proceeds to go on about how 100 rounds of brass are like $17 or so then bullets and primer and powder...he said by the time your done buying everything seperate that you could have been cheaper to buy a case of ammo.......guess this guy has no clue how to reload or that you can use the brass over and over and over again...and it only takes what 3-4 grain worth of powder per bullet...1 lb is like $20 kind of goes a long way.....i just looked at him and never said anything and left.....and some wonder why more prople dont reload...heres one reason...you got in experienced gun shop people telling customers something they know nothing about at all.

[Utahar15]

I'd bet even if you used the case one time it'd be cheaper than a full case.

I hear stuff like this all the time. When I shopping some of the local shops.

Robb

[Doodlebugger45]

No doubt there is less savings on reloading 9mm ammo than all the other calibers. I see ads for 9 mm ammo at $9/50. But I could still reload it for less. It would take a long time to pay for equipment for that cost savings if you didn't reload other calibers, assuming you were not a high volume shooter. But it's still cheaper to reload, even comparing the cheapo stuff. And when you start getting into cartridges like my .454 Casull or my WSM rifle cartridges, well I just couldn't afford to shoot them if I didn't reload.

[hogcowboy]

Even if it cost the same or more to reload, I would/do. There is something therapeutic about loading your own. It adds to the shooting sport.

[FrankenMauser]

Even if it cost the same or more to reload, I would/do. There is something therapeutic about loading your own. It adds to the shooting sport.

I enjoy reloading more than I enjoy shooting.

and some wonder why more prople dont reload...heres one reason...you got in experienced gun shop people telling customers something they know nothing about at all.

I don't even know where to start...

I have seen so many poorly constructed "get me started" 'kits' put together by inexperienced salesman, I have actually grown tired of trying to correct the problems that will be safe (far from optimal, but they'll be safe).

I never correct equipment choices, unless the salesman is saying it will do something it won't (or selling a two-boxes-a-year type a Hornady Lock-N-Load AP). But when I hear bad load development advice, I'm "that guy", that pipes up to make it known that the salesman is an idiot.

If I do have to say something...
The first stop is always a reloading manual. It's amazing how many salesman try to get people started, and never mention a manual.

[amamnn]

I don't handload because it's cheap--the way I do it--the guy at the store is right. I do it to try to get the best accuracy from every firearm I own. It's challenging; it's absorbing; it's always an education. I would suggest--again-- that anyone who wants to handload only or mainly to save money should be looking at bulk ammo.

[Hog Hunter]

Ok I usally buy a box of bullet and just shoot them to get the brass so here is what it cost me. And I shoot a 7mm mag

Box of bullets $40 max. Usally get 4-5 rounds out of them

100 nosler accubonds- $60 max

Pound of H4831- 100+ rounds $25

winchester primers- bought 2000 last year for $30 I think.

SO!! I have Around $155 it. If I was to go buy 5 boxs of accubonds for my rifle it would cost me around $250 I think the last box of accubonds I seen for sale was round $50 a box. WOW!! When you figure it out tell me how to fix stupid.

I understand that the equpminet cost but after a few years of loading your geetin a better quality bullet (if you take pride in your work) for ALOT less!!
I dont reload pistol rounds but am fixin to get into it. Plus I love reloading and takin game with a round I made!

[medalguy]

Seventeen cents for 9mm brass?? I think I can buy loaded ammo for that.

Actually I bought a box full of 9mm brass recently for 2 cents per piece, mixed headstamps, but that's fine with me. I can sort it for that price.

[serf 'rett]

Reminds me of the clerk I heard tell someone that a pound of powder had 453.6 grains. He was holding the powder in his hand and looking at the number of grams. At his quoted estimated 25 "grains" per cartridge the pound of powder was going to load about 18 rounds.

It was entertaining to listen to him spout off from his deep knowledge of reloading (of course he didn't reload himself but he knew ALL about it). I button holed the customer and recommended ABC's of Reloading.

[ballardw]

I usually take the "I can shoot factory cheaper than reloading" to actually mean "I don't do well with arithmetic."

[kxkid]

I just got in to reloading and was told by some people why. Yeah the start up cost is a lot but when a box of 45acp is 18 in a store you shoot that and save the brass and reload that again for like 10 a box and go to your local shooting area and look for brass it makes it a lot more cheaper. I have been shooting my 45 more because I can load 2 boxes for a little more than 1. I just got into 223 and my cost for a box of 20 is like 4 bucks vs 10 at Walmart. And I already have a ton of brass saved up.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Sport45]

and it only takes what 3-4 grain worth of powder per bullet..

You need to step up to a larger cartridge.

Another benefit to reloading is you can construct premium ammo for the cost of store-bought white box stuff. Not to mention being able to build stuff that can't be bought. Good luck finding 7.7jap with .312" 174gr Hornady RNSP or even .38spcl 158gr FMJ cartridges at your local Wal-Mart.

[Powderman]

I chuckled a little bit at this thread.

Here's why...

I just finished my prep and cleaning/lubing/sizing/2nd tumbling and trimming on a bunch of once fired Federal cases.

So, I'll do the math...

200 175 grain MatchKing bullets, in .308--$62.
200 CCI #34 primers--$5.00
200 charges of a new powder I'm trying out (Alliant 2000-MR, at 42.5 grains per charge...a little over $22.00 worth of powder.

Cost of a small case (10 boxes of 20) of Federal Gold Medal Match 175 gr. in .308 Winchester--around $350.00.

Cost for me to duplicate the round by reloading...$89.00.

I wonder if your gun store guy would think I'm saving any money?

[Shootest]

I always wonder if the guys at the gun shop are more interested in saving money for the customer, or making more money for the shop, or just stupid.

[Uncle Buck]

I learned the hard way that not all store clerks have your best interest at heart.

I like to shoot the .45 Colt and it was costing me around .85 cents a shot for store bought ammo.

The clerk where I bought my reloading stuff had me convinced I should try this powder and those bullets and I will need magnum primers. Just follow the directions on the bottle and in the reloading kit and "You'll be fine".

I wish I had gotten a reloading manual first. Luckily, I did not feel comfortable with the powder and advice he gave me and I found TFL. The forum members answered a lot of questions I had and I learned a lot BEFORE I actually began reloading. I have made friends in the area that reload and I know when I run into a tough situation where to go to find the answers.

One of the best pieces of information I have is the reloading cost calculator.
http://10xshooters.com/calculators/H...Calculator.htm

I have not run the numbers in quite awhile, but last time I checked it was:

.45 Colt about .20 cents. ($10.00 a box of 50)
.38 Special .10 cents. ($5.00 a box of 50)
.357 Mag .13 cents. ($6.50 a box of 50)

(I guesstimated the brass life at 10 loadings, but I have far exceeded that number.)

These are the rounds I fire most often. My press and accessories were paid off with the savings in the first years of reloading.

[kkirchmer]

I understand the overall savings for the cost of the materials but how long does it take you guys on average to reload a 50 round box of ammunition? I love to shoot but between work, kids, and working around the house I barely have enough time to get out on the weekend for a few hours to shoot.

Do you guys figure in what your time is worth into the cost?

I would be interested in knowing the time from start to finish to reload a few hundred rounds.

[mrbro]

Once you get a system down it takes no time at all. Since I do all my case prep and priming separate from my loading, I can put together 50 loaded rounds in less than an hour. Probably about 30 minutes, all on a single stage press.

[hogcowboy]

Don't think you can step into reloading and produce 50 rounds in 30 minutes. You probably can't and still make good safe rounds. My first 50 took more than 2 hours. But it was a good learning experience. At my best it took me 50 to 60 minutes for 50 a single stage press. And that was for the whole process start to finish including setup. Now I have a progressive and it still takes 30 minutes but then I'm slow in my old age. With practice you get faster but you don't want to get too out of control with it. I don't consider producing rounds fast to be the goal. The goal is to produce good safe rounds and that can be done at a moderate pace. Look at hand loading as an extension to your shooting hobby. Just one more part, the same as cleaning you weapons. At least that's the way I look at it.

[overkill0084]

I suspect that the math is more related to how much ammo the gun shop sells to customers. If you can convince people that reloading doesn't save money, they will continue to buy factory ammo. The math seems pretty straightforward to me.

Reloading isn't all about saving money. If the cost was a wash, I would still do it. I like the process of load development. I like developing a load for a specific application not addressed well by factory ammo. I enjoy the peace & quiet of puttering around in the garage while doing it.

[Technosavant]

The cost greatly depends on the type of rounds being loaded, the equipment you're using, the value of your time, and many other factors.

If I would try loading .45ACP FMJ rounds, I'd probably save very little once my time and equipment costs were factored in. If I use lead, then the cost goes way down, but the time needed to clean afterwards goes up. If I load some hollow points or other more premium types of ammo, then the cost is much more in my favor because JHP in .45ACP is near impossible to find at under $1 per round.

For small volume shooters, I would probably agree that it isn't worth setting up to reload unless you're just not finding ammo. If you shoot more, then reloading starts becoming cost and time effective.

[serf 'rett]

Guess the OP's store clerk was figuring in his time. Clerks may be better paid nowadays than they were back in the mid-70’s when I was pulling that gig.

Based on what my employer would charge for my time, $111.00/hour, I would definitely be losing big time by reloading. In fact I’d actually be losing money based on the paltry amount they actually PAY me; however, if the basis is changed to what my wife thinks my time is worth, $0.00/hour, then reloading puts me way ahead.

[mikld]

This is prolly the tenth thread I've seen this month on costs of reloading vs factory. Well, if you only count the cost of components, then maybe it's cheaper. But most calculators don't figure in the "hidden" costs. Dropped, "lost" primers, ruined/crushed brass and/or bullets, spilled powder, etc. (have you ever read of a reloader that couldn't identify the 1/2 lb. of powder in his powder measure so he dumped it?). Shipping costs if components purchased on-line/mail order. If you drive to a vendor: gas prices plus wear and tear on the auto/truck. Utilities costs for reloading area (lighting, A/C in summer, heat in winter). Some reloaders wear nitrile gloves for reloading. And in my case, I cannot go into a "candy store" or place an order online without getting some of those items I see and know I really need (even though I may use it once and put it away), like a new and improved tool, or books and magazines.

Reloading is my hobby. It is a very satisfying hobby. I do it mostly because I like it and it gives me great pleasure during and after, seeing my results. So, I don't really care how much I "save" by reloading, and would count costs last when talking to a prospective reloader.

[AlaskaMike]

In all these threads I've observed that the time issue is frequently brought up when someone is looking for an excuse to explain why they don't do it. My statement may sound a little obnoxious, and I certainly don't intend it that way. It's just human nature to want to avoid admitting you just aren't interested in doing something that another person suggested with a helpful intention. I also see it a lot when I suggest bullet casting to other handloaders.

As for the value of my own time spent with my press, it just isn't factored in. It's an activity that I *like* doing, not a chore that I hate. Besides, the time I spend loading ammo would probably otherwise be spend in front of the tube.

[wncchester]

Many gun shop clerks little more knowledgeable than your local florist.

[Uncle Buck]

How much is your time worth when you are shooting with your friends and family?

I guess when I first started, I was spending about two hours on a press of 50 rounds. But I have cut that time considerably because I know what I am doing now and I am much more comfortable.

I prep all my brass before hand. It is tumbled, decapped and put in buckets. I might get bored and will prime a bunch. Then when I feel I will not be disturbed, I might sit down and assemble 200 - 300 rounds in a few hours. (Powder, bullet, seat and crimp)

Time is a concept that means different things to different people and therefore the value changes. I am not a TV person. Time sitting on the porch watching a sunset is great, time sitting on a porch watching a sunrise is a waste to me. I should be doing something productive.