.454 Casull from a 92 lever action? - Page 2

HiBC · December 15, 2010, 12:18 AM

Look to Starline for brass.Once you begin handloading,you can load it to your comfort level.
On the condition you received it ,I agree it would be returnable,new unfired.As you now have fired it,I would give them the right to decline taking it back,and I'd say appreciate it greatly if they do accept it.
I think it would be a great rifle to own.Light little rifle that gives the performance of an original 45-90 1886 Win.Except you aren't carrying all the steel in an 1886.
On a wild guess,try powders on the slower end of the burn rate and you may get a slightly slower recoil push.
My Laser Cast load book does not show any 454casull loads,but for .44 Magnums,they do caution against assuming a lever rifle is stronger than revolvers in the Ruger class.
There is a fairly broad spectrum of 454 loads,and some get up well into the 40,000 s in psi.I would not push the envelope.Ideally,the rifle would be proofed to,and have,a max designed operating pressure level to work to.Maybe the mfg could provide?
If you begin loading,do study crimping.It will be important.Your rifle may also be sensitive to cartridge overall lengthTube mag,high recoil..A little too long and you will get a pretty bad tie up.If that ever happens,you will really appreciate that mag tube design.It can be a bear to clear a double feed out of a loading gate.
Another thing about the mag tube thickness,how the tubes were originally attached would not hold up to 454 recoil.Something I did when I built a custom 92was bored the hole through the forend still another 1/32 in bigger and accraglas'd a piece of brass telescope tube inside the wood.its a close slip fit on the mag tube and places a very thin web across the inside of the forend to abilize it.

kenno · December 15, 2010, 12:52 AM

Having been around a LONG time I have seen PPL convert thier Win m-92S TO 44 MAG, It always ended in tears!
I have owned a Puma 44-40, junk!
Puma is offering a 454 you say?
Safe for the 45 Colt? Yes!
454,? NO!
Buy a good 12 ga 3" slug gun for bears!

stegar1 · December 15, 2010, 11:10 AM

i have a stainless m92 puma .454 it is as solid as they get! the recoil is less than on my win 94 16" .44 mag! i have never fired .45 colt loads out of it

pricedo · December 22, 2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

stegar1: i have a stainless m92 puma .454 it is as solid as they get! the recoil is less than on my win 94 16" .44 mag! i have never fired .45 colt loads out of it

My 84 year old mother who has shot all of her life can fire my Puma in .454 Casull.

I wouldn't want to be on the range complaining about recoil of the .454 M92 with her in the next shooting station.

JR1 · December 28, 2010, 09:27 PM

I have had a 20-inch stainless M92 in .454 since 2007 and I love it! I have 334 rounds of mostly full-power ammo through it. It feeds cowboy action .45s, full-power .45 Colts, and a variety of .454s. The only thing it won't feed is CorBon 325 gr cast .454. I think it's too long to feed from the magazine. I can single-feed that round, but it's a beast!

The 300gr Hornady is my favorite load. It cycles smooth and clocks at 2000 fps from the 20 inch tube. The Win Partition Gold 260 gr load chrono'd at 2300! It's pretty snappy though.

I have mostly loaded 250 and 300 grain XTPs and Gold Dots to 1800 fps. They are fun to shoot!! They are clearly above the .44 Mag power range, but pleasant enough to shoot a whole box -- much less recoil that a 12 ga. pump.

I have been using AA #9 and a little Titegroup (for 1500 fps loads), but the Titegroup leaves burn marks on the brass, so I wonder if it's not fully obturating. I'm starting some new loads with IMR-4227. It's a good bit slower, so it should be more efficient in the longer barrel. Theoretically, it could make the recoil more of a "push" than "snap."

I haven't been able to shoot a lead bullet out of it that will fly straight (7 to 8 inch groups at 50yds), but I have gotten some decent groups with JHPs. Two-inch 5-shot groups at 50 yards is the norm. This week I shot a 5-shot 3-inch group at 100 yards with 250 XTPs, but that is my best so far. 5-inches has been more usual as I have been looking for an accurate handload.

I ring some steel at 150 yards, but there is about an 18-inch drop! I consider it my 100 yard hunter, max. The main disadvantage to accurate shooting is the hi-viz sights. There's just no getting a sharp sight picture. Nevertheless, they would be in their own inside 75 yards on medium game in the brush.

I can't imagine I'll ever sell this one. A handy, reliable little stick at a diminutive 6 1/2 pounds that can kill just about anything in N. America is a keeper.

And it has decent trigger with a light pull to boot.

Good shooting,
JR

RickE · December 30, 2010, 08:40 PM

Want .454 Casull power in a .44 mag? Check out Buffalo Bore +P+ 340 grain.

pricedo · January 4, 2011, 11:08 AM

Quote:

JR1: I have been using AA #9 and a little Titegroup (for 1500 fps loads), but the Titegroup leaves burn marks on the brass, so I wonder if it's not fully obturating. I'm starting some new loads with IMR-4227. It's a good bit slower, so it should be more efficient in the longer barrel. Theoretically, it could make the recoil more of a "push" than "snap."

I think we can start looking at some slower powders like the 4227s for the carbines to flatten out the pressure time curve and attenuate some of that shoulder slapping recoil the .454 is infamous for.

FALacy · January 4, 2011, 11:18 AM

The failure with the 45 colt leverevolution rounds that you described sounds like that of which occurs when the extractor is under a little too much tension. If you remove the bolt and bend the extractor back a little bit at a time, you will likely find that it will feed the 45 colt rounds. Also, try round nose 45 colts as a lot of levers actually do not function with the leverevolution rounds. From my readings it seems as they are by far the least reliable round for levers, ironically.

pricedo · January 7, 2011, 04:45 PM

The best feeding factory ammo for my Rossi M92 in .454C is the Hornady 240 grain XTP MAG stuff.

The 250 grain flat nose Winchester .45 LC flat nosed lead rounds will feed with a noticeable roughness as the base of the ogive grabs the edge on the chamber on the way in.

It definitely doesn't like the SWC or FWC style of bullets and refuses to feed them at all.

Some people have problems because they 3/4 cycle the lever action instead of making a complete stroke. Properly cycling a lever action should be practiced by new shooters until they have it perfect right from the get-go or than can look forward to a learning curve plagued with jams.

One thing I really like about my Ruger 96/44 in .44 Mag. is the shortened stroke length.

DWFan · September 19, 2011, 05:58 PM

I know it's an older thread but what makes a .454 Casull M1892 different than a .45 Colt M1892? The .45 Colts I've read about and seen will choke on ammo longer than approx. 1.61"; nearly all .357 Magnums won't cycle anything over 1.59".
Yet the .454 M1892 is the opposite; purring along just fine with ammo up to 1.76" and struggling with ammo under 1.60" in length.
Something has to be different, but I can't find anyone to tell me what it is. The different models simply cannot be identical with such different traits.

Lancel · September 26, 2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

...what makes a .454 Casull M1892 different than a .45 Colt M1892? ...The different models simply cannot be identical with such different traits.

That's right, the different models are not identical.

A few years ago. a quality lever action gunsmith explained that if my 92's carrier mechanism was adjusted to feed better with the shorter .45 Colt, it would feed worse with longer .454 Casull. There's a goldilocks length.

It's just not as straight forward as a bolt action pushing bottle-neck rifle rounds straight off a box magazine.

Larry

December 15, 2010, 12:18 AM	#26
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	Look to Starline for brass.Once you begin handloading,you can load it to your comfort level. On the condition you received it ,I agree it would be returnable,new unfired.As you now have fired it,I would give them the right to decline taking it back,and I'd say appreciate it greatly if they do accept it. I think it would be a great rifle to own.Light little rifle that gives the performance of an original 45-90 1886 Win.Except you aren't carrying all the steel in an 1886. On a wild guess,try powders on the slower end of the burn rate and you may get a slightly slower recoil push. My Laser Cast load book does not show any 454casull loads,but for .44 Magnums,they do caution against assuming a lever rifle is stronger than revolvers in the Ruger class. There is a fairly broad spectrum of 454 loads,and some get up well into the 40,000 s in psi.I would not push the envelope.Ideally,the rifle would be proofed to,and have,a max designed operating pressure level to work to.Maybe the mfg could provide? If you begin loading,do study crimping.It will be important.Your rifle may also be sensitive to cartridge overall lengthTube mag,high recoil..A little too long and you will get a pretty bad tie up.If that ever happens,you will really appreciate that mag tube design.It can be a bear to clear a double feed out of a loading gate. Another thing about the mag tube thickness,how the tubes were originally attached would not hold up to 454 recoil.Something I did when I built a custom 92was bored the hole through the forend still another 1/32 in bigger and accraglas'd a piece of brass telescope tube inside the wood.its a close slip fit on the mag tube and places a very thin web across the inside of the forend to abilize it. Last edited by HiBC; December 15, 2010 at 02:44 AM.

December 15, 2010, 11:10 AM	#28
stegar1 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2010 Location: Dallas , TX Posts: 144	i have a stainless m92 puma .454 it is as solid as they get! the recoil is less than on my win 94 16" .44 mag! i have never fired .45 colt loads out of it __________________ YAT YAS Semper Fi

December 28, 2010, 09:27 PM	#30
JR1 Member Join Date: June 3, 1999 Posts: 23	I have had a 20-inch stainless M92 in .454 since 2007 and I love it! I have 334 rounds of mostly full-power ammo through it. It feeds cowboy action .45s, full-power .45 Colts, and a variety of .454s. The only thing it won't feed is CorBon 325 gr cast .454. I think it's too long to feed from the magazine. I can single-feed that round, but it's a beast! The 300gr Hornady is my favorite load. It cycles smooth and clocks at 2000 fps from the 20 inch tube. The Win Partition Gold 260 gr load chrono'd at 2300! It's pretty snappy though. I have mostly loaded 250 and 300 grain XTPs and Gold Dots to 1800 fps. They are fun to shoot!! They are clearly above the .44 Mag power range, but pleasant enough to shoot a whole box -- much less recoil that a 12 ga. pump. I have been using AA #9 and a little Titegroup (for 1500 fps loads), but the Titegroup leaves burn marks on the brass, so I wonder if it's not fully obturating. I'm starting some new loads with IMR-4227. It's a good bit slower, so it should be more efficient in the longer barrel. Theoretically, it could make the recoil more of a "push" than "snap." I haven't been able to shoot a lead bullet out of it that will fly straight (7 to 8 inch groups at 50yds), but I have gotten some decent groups with JHPs. Two-inch 5-shot groups at 50 yards is the norm. This week I shot a 5-shot 3-inch group at 100 yards with 250 XTPs, but that is my best so far. 5-inches has been more usual as I have been looking for an accurate handload. I ring some steel at 150 yards, but there is about an 18-inch drop! I consider it my 100 yard hunter, max. The main disadvantage to accurate shooting is the hi-viz sights. There's just no getting a sharp sight picture. Nevertheless, they would be in their own inside 75 yards on medium game in the brush. I can't imagine I'll ever sell this one. A handy, reliable little stick at a diminutive 6 1/2 pounds that can kill just about anything in N. America is a keeper. And it has decent trigger with a light pull to boot. Good shooting, JR Last edited by JR1; December 28, 2010 at 09:51 PM.

December 15, 2010, 12:52 AM	#27
kenno Junior member Join Date: November 3, 2008 Posts: 180	Having been around a LONG time I have seen PPL convert thier Win m-92S TO 44 MAG, It always ended in tears! I have owned a Puma 44-40, junk! Puma is offering a 454 you say? Safe for the 45 Colt? Yes! 454,? NO! Buy a good 12 ga 3" slug gun for bears!

December 30, 2010, 08:40 PM	#31
RickE Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2009 Location: Kirkland Wa. Posts: 516	Want .454 Casull power in a .44 mag? Check out Buffalo Bore +P+ 340 grain.

January 4, 2011, 11:18 AM	#33
FALacy Junior member Join Date: August 17, 2009 Posts: 205	The failure with the 45 colt leverevolution rounds that you described sounds like that of which occurs when the extractor is under a little too much tension. If you remove the bolt and bend the extractor back a little bit at a time, you will likely find that it will feed the 45 colt rounds. Also, try round nose 45 colts as a lot of levers actually do not function with the leverevolution rounds. From my readings it seems as they are by far the least reliable round for levers, ironically.

January 7, 2011, 04:45 PM	#34
pricedo Member Join Date: September 3, 2008 Location: NRA LIFE MEMBER Posts: 55	The best feeding factory ammo for my Rossi M92 in .454C is the Hornady 240 grain XTP MAG stuff. The 250 grain flat nose Winchester .45 LC flat nosed lead rounds will feed with a noticeable roughness as the base of the ogive grabs the edge on the chamber on the way in. It definitely doesn't like the SWC or FWC style of bullets and refuses to feed them at all. Some people have problems because they 3/4 cycle the lever action instead of making a complete stroke. Properly cycling a lever action should be practiced by new shooters until they have it perfect right from the get-go or than can look forward to a learning curve plagued with jams. One thing I really like about my Ruger 96/44 in .44 Mag. is the shortened stroke length.

September 19, 2011, 05:58 PM	#35
DWFan Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 305	I know it's an older thread but what makes a .454 Casull M1892 different than a .45 Colt M1892? The .45 Colts I've read about and seen will choke on ammo longer than approx. 1.61"; nearly all .357 Magnums won't cycle anything over 1.59". Yet the .454 M1892 is the opposite; purring along just fine with ammo up to 1.76" and struggling with ammo under 1.60" in length. Something has to be different, but I can't find anyone to tell me what it is. The different models simply cannot be identical with such different traits.