Wing master 870 question

[Dano4734]

For deer should I get a smooth barrel with sights or a fully rifled barrel with sights. What would you do. My son in law wants to deer hunt with it

[NoSecondBest]

I'd get the rifled slug barrel. They are very, very accurate. The smooth barrel may shoot slugs well, but then again maybe not. On average, the rifled barrels are way more accurate. I've seen some decent shooting smooth barrels but I've never seen a bad shooting rifled barrel. I had a couple of rifled ones and they would shoot a ragged hole at fifty yards and keep inside three inches at 100 yards shooting off sandbags and a bench rest. The only advantage of a smooth bore is the ability to shoot bird shot out of the gun for small game hunting. You can't shoot shot out of the rifled barrel.

[Dano4734]

Thank you my friend

[FITASC]

Rifled barrels work best with the sabot type of slugs whereas the smoothbore works better with the "rifled" lead slugs

[44 AMP]

You can't shoot shot out of the rifled barrel.

Sure you can! You can ABSOLUTELY shoot shot from a rifled barrel!!

What it won't do is work as well as it does from a smooth bore barrel.

Rifling spins the shot charge, which results in a "donut" shaped pattern. There is a hole (size varying with range) in the middle of your shot pattern with no shot in it, when you shoot shot through a rifled barrel.

Shotshells will still work, but you have to take into account that there will be few, if any pellets in the center of the shot pattern.

[NoSecondBest]

Sure you can! You can ABSOLUTELY shoot shot from a rifled barrel!!

What it won't do is work as well as it does from a smooth bore barrel.

Rifling spins the shot charge, which results in a "donut" shaped pattern. There is a hole (size varying with range) in the middle of your shot pattern with no shot in it, when you shoot shot through a rifled barrel.

Shotshells will still work, but you have to take into account that there will be few, if any pellets in the center of the shot pattern.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

I was well aware of that but I'd never give that info to a new, or uninformed, shooter who's out trying to buy a gun. I've never seen anyone EVER attempt to hunt using shot out of a rifled barrel or shoot clay birds that way. The pattern coming out of the barrel becomes wildly erratic. To even promote the idea of buying a rifled barrel and using it to shoot pellets is extremely bad advice. You can also shoot .22lr out of a .22WMR rifle or handgun but the cases will split and accuracy will be poor. Sometimes you're better off not adding every bit of knowledge you posses to inform a new person on how to do something. I'd suggest you stick to providing good advice and this wasn't good advice. To the OP, don't try shooting shot shells out of a rifled barrel. They will fire but are next to useless if you expect decent shot patterns and effective use of the firearm. Sorry to contridict the "STAFF" but I don't agree with them in this case.

[FITASC]

You obviously did not read his entire response and understand what it said.

From a SAFETY standpoint it is doable. From a practical standpoint to achieve the desired results, it is not - which is exactly what was stated.

[NoSecondBest]

You obviously did not read his entire response and understand what it said.

From a SAFETY standpoint it is doable. From a practical standpoint to achieve the desired results, it is not - which is exactly what was stated.

No, I read it a couple of times. My point is that it's unnecessary information to provide to someone who may not be very familiar or knowledgible about shotguns. People often add more than is necessary to answer a question and it can lead to some confusion to those who lack the knowledge to clearly interprut it. I worked as a safety manager and instructor as part of my working career and have fount that too much info isn't always needed. A question was asked and more info was given than necessary. It's like asking someone for the time and they end up telling you how to make a watch.

[Dano4734]

Well guys, do I have to use just sabots, for practice they get a bit pricey

[T. O'Heir]

You need to practice with the ammo you intend using. Slugs are kind of pricey anyway, but they can be reloaded. Still not cheap.
There are sabotted slugs that are not really slugs. They're big bullets in a sabot. Those require a rifled barrel to stabilize.
However, which your son in law uses doesn't make much difference. Except the sabots will be a lot more accurate.

[Dano4734]

Got ya thanks so much

[FITASC]

If you want the best accuracy from a rifled barrel, then the sabot slugs are what you want to use.

No, I read it a couple of times. My point is that it's unnecessary information to provide to someone who may not be very familiar or knowledgible about shotguns.

And the way you become familiar is to watch, listen, and ask questions. Since the OP said he knows nothing about shotguns, the advice given was apropos to the situation - he CAN SAFELY fire shot through his rifled barrel with no possibility of damage or injury. BUT, he was also informed that his patterns would suck. Shot and "rifled" slugs for smoothbores and sabots for rifled barrels.

[SARuger]

I have a dedicated slug gun, its a 20g 870 Express with two barrels. One barrel is the cantilevered/rifled barrel w/Nikon Omega 1.5-7x32 scope and the other is the smooth-bore/rifle sighted barrel.

I have found the accuracy to be pretty dang close between the two barrels. I use Fusion Sabots in the rifled barrel and "whatever I get the cheapest" rifled slugs in the smooth bore.

I use the smooth bore barrel on those nasty wet days that just mess up a scope and make it useless.

I have patterned #3 buck with both barrels and unless you are shooting at a deer within 20yds, you will be lucky if you get one lucky pellet into it. Just not ethical.

[FITASC]

SA - how does your scope hold up under the recoil?

[SARuger]

Just fine! It is a muzzle-loader scope. I did that on purpose :-)

[44 AMP]

You said,

You can't shoot shot out of the rifled barrel.

A short, declarative statement. Also one I thought a bit misleading, so I replied that you can shoot shot, it just doesn't work all that well.
Apparently, you thought my answer was too much information...

My point is that it's unnecessary information to provide to someone who may not be very familiar or knowledgible about shotguns.

A question was asked and more info was given than necessary.

I disagree, I think your statement "You can't shoot shot out of the rifled barrel." didn't give enough information.

... I'd never give that info to a new, or uninformed, shooter who's out trying to buy a gun.

Clearly, because you didn't.

I've never seen anyone EVER attempt to hunt using shot out of a rifled barrel...

I've hunted with a T/C Contender .45Colt/.410, and used it for pest control, with both shot, and slug (and .45 Colt ammo, too). No, you've never seen me do it, but I have done it, so have others.

And there is also the fact that some folks do hunt with the Judge / Governor type .45/.410 revolvers.

These ALL have rifled barrels, to comply with Federal Law. The Contender has a screw in/screw on section of "straight" rifling, designed to counteract the spin produced by the rifled barrel. It is not 100% effective, but it does help with the shot pattern, a bit. It must also be removed for shooting .45 Colt ammo.

Ok, I will concede that IF I had included the information about the Contender in response to "You can't shoot shot out of the rifled barrel." that would probably be too much information for the complete novice, at that point, particularly because it's not directly relevant to a rifled/smoothbore slug gun for deer question.

But, I didn't bring it up there. I bring it up here, because you brought it up.

[lefteye]

I recommend the Remington 870 rifled barrel with iron sights and sabot slugs. Of course sabot slugs are more expensive but they are more accurate, especially at longer ranges. My deer hunting shotgun is an 870 with the synthetic Monte Carlo stock and the rifled barrel with the cantilever scope mount. I have a Leupold 1-4X variable shotgun scope on the gun. I use Remington sabot slugs with a polymer pointed tip. These slugs are extremely accurate. For example, this combination of shotgun, scope and sabot slugs let me take a 10 point Iowa buck running & quartering away at more than 100 yards with a single shot through the lungs. The buck ran about 20 to 25 yards after the shot. I would not have taken the shot with my old smooth-bore barrel with iron sights.

[SARuger]

I have a 20g 11-87 laying around that might become my new slug gun. I have been looking at barrels. No where near as cheap as the 870 barrels! But that follow up shot......

[hartcreek]

I would take him shooting first so I had a handle on his skill level first. A rifled barrel wont do him much good if he cant hit a deer size target with 00 buckshot first.

[RMcL]

To the OP, consider the normal range deer are taken in your area. 100 yard shots and under are well within the accuracy range of a smoothbore with inexpensive rifled slugs. Unless you must have 150 yard performance and are willing to pay 3-4 times more per shot, the smoothbore will do the job. Range practice is important to develop field accuracy. Indeed, before you buy another barrel, consider a well practiced shot with a vent rib barrel that prints slugs to POA will do quite well with that simple ball on a flat sight picture: o.

Further, by using Federal 12 gauge loads with the flite-control wad , that cylinder or improved cylinder will be also be a viable 40 yard deer gun with buckshot as well.

Regarding the post that reference poor 20 gauge buckshot patterns, remember the 20 gauge has not seen the improvements in buckshot ammo technology that the 12 bore has. Virtually all over the counter 20 gauge buckshot ammo, while buffered, uses a simple pusher wad with no shotcup. This type of ammo demands chokes of at least modified choke constriction or tighter to maintain pattern density. Even then the lack of a shot cup will result in some flat sided flyers due to direct pellet to bore contact.

Wad Wizard Power Pro 20 is the only commercial 20 gauge buckshot round, to my knowledge, that has a shotcup wad to prevent pellet bore scrub - regardless of the choke type chosen.

http://www.wadwizard.com/ammo.htm

[darkgael]

This^^^. Yes, good advice.
If all that your son-in-law wants to do is hunt deer then the rifled barrel option is probably the way to go.
The smoothbore is, however, WAY more versatile.
My son's first SG was a rifle sighted smoothbore. He could keep all his slugs in a six inch group at 100 yards using the iron sights. Quite good enough for deer.
Twenty-five years later, he still has that gun and about a bazillion adapters for it. He uses it for deer, small game, hogs, etc.
Pete

[lockedcj7]

It all depends. If this is a one-time hunt in thick brush, I would just buy a box of rifled slugs (or 00 Buck if legal in your area) and use the smooth bore it already has.

If this is going to be a regular thing at short ranges, I would choose a smooth bore, rifle sight barrel and use rifled slugs. For longer ranges, I would get a cantilevered scope mount rifled barrel and use sabot slugs.

I don't know what your land is like so I don't know your ranges. A lot of folks think the south is all brush but we've also got lots of fields, clear cuts and power lines. 150 yds is nothing around here and that's about the limit for shotguns.

[FITASC]

A lot of folks think the south is all brush but we've also got lots of fields, clear cuts and power lines. 150 yds is nothing around here and that's about the limit for shotguns.

And why Kenny Jarrett developed his "beanfield rifles".....