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Old April 20, 2014, 10:43 AM   #1
Micglennona74
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9mm squib load(won't fire).

I am new in the reloading world. I just bought a lee loadmaster for 9 mm with includes a 3 die set and I added a factory crimping die on the last stage. I am using a Hogdon hp38 gun powder and a cci 500 primer. My load charge is 5.1 gr powder and my bullet is 115 gr with .356 diameter. On every 100 rds I have at least 25 rds of squib loads (doesn't fire) but if I fire it again some of the ammo goes off. I did check my primer depth and it seems ok because I can see a mark by the firing pin. Any idea why I'm having this problem? Thanks guys
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Old April 20, 2014, 10:58 AM   #2
Blindstitch
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Ok so what you're saying is when you load the shell and pull the trigger the firing pin is experiencing low power or short strikes and the shell doesn't fire. But if you do it again it does.

My understanding is a squib is a load that goes off with no power forcing the projectile to get stuck in the barrel.

Just for fun what gun are you using these shells in? Almost seems like it's having the problem. Does it fire fine with factory shells and if so what brand are you using.
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Old April 20, 2014, 11:19 AM   #3
JT-AR-MG42
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Figuring you do not experience any failures to fire with factory ammo (which would indicate a firearm problem) and that all of your sized cases fit a case gauge (indicating proper sizing die adjustment and proper sizing of the case itself).

Two guesses here. 25% is a lot.
First would be primers that are not fully seated or that have been mis-handled (oil) or stored incorrectly.
I would pick up some new/different brand primers to see if the fault lies with the primers themselves and make sure all are seated correctly.

Never have used Lee dies or their crimp dies. You should put calipers to the very leading edge of some of your loaded rounds to ensure that you have not over-crimped them leading to a headspace problem.
I am up visiting for Easter and away from manuals, but memory says case mouth on a finished 9mm should read .380 maximum. Seems like I crimp mine at .377 with good results.

Another suggestion would be to work in smaller 'batches' until the problem is resolved.

JT
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Old April 20, 2014, 12:15 PM   #4
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can you tell me if you are using a DA only pistol? i had two DAO pistols that had an issue using CCI primers

try a different brand of primers if you can, but ts still most likely not getting seated hard enough, also check to see if your FTFs are on the same kind of brass, even somes 9x19 has military crimps
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Old April 20, 2014, 02:00 PM   #5
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Did you check your primer depth with a gauge or your finger? Can you post a picture of the dimpled primer on one that did not fire?

It sounds like light primer strikes to me. That could be primer seating depth, too much crimp messing with headspace, or the gun itself. I would try 2 things first. Load a batch or 10-20 and try to set the primer just barely past flush, then do everything else the same as before. Load a sepate batch or 10-20 the same as the first time, but without a crimp (or only a very light crimp if you are belling your case mouth before your seat)

If you only have a problem on one of those, you found the problem. If you have problems with both, try another brand of primer.
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Old April 20, 2014, 04:08 PM   #6
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Also, take care NOT TO TOUCH the anvil side of primer. It is rare, but oil, including oil from your skin can render a primer inert.

And, of course, make sure there are no contaminants in the primer pocket of the case.

Also, if you use any kind of penetrating oil on your gun, don't store ammo in the magazine.

its not likely, but Murphy is still with us, and his law does still apply.
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Old April 20, 2014, 04:09 PM   #7
jag2
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Usually (but not always) the answer is the opposite of what you think. You look at the round and see the dimple from the firing pin and think the primer is seated too far down and the pin couldn't hit it hard enough. In fact, the primer was too high (not down far enough) so when the firing pin hits it is pushing the primer down to its proper depth, then when you try it a second time the firing pin hits the primer, which at this point is at the proper depth so it goes bang. An easy test is to just set a round on a flat surface, if it wobbles at all it is because the primer is touching the surface, that is bad. This doesn't always work because some brass isn't flat to begin with. Pay careful attention to this and I bet it will solve your problem. After a while you'll be able to tell by feel.
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Old April 20, 2014, 05:28 PM   #8
berettaprofessor
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Sounds more like a firing pin/spring problem to me. Do you have the same problem with a different gun? If you try these loads in another gun, and don't have the problem, then it's the gun, not the rounds.
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Old April 20, 2014, 06:39 PM   #9
overthere
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squib = pull trigger, bang, bullet fails to leave the barrel, typically due to no powder in case, or way under charged.

pull trigger, no bang = FTF (failure to fire), commonly due to primer not being seated deep enough, or faulty primer. If second strike results in a bang, then most likely primer not being seated deep enough.
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Old April 20, 2014, 06:44 PM   #10
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I have to agree with primer not being seated. You are not the first newbe reloader that this has happened to.
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Old April 20, 2014, 07:28 PM   #11
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Sounds like classic high primers. First strike seats the primer second strike goes bang.
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Old April 20, 2014, 07:58 PM   #12
jepp2
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Quote:
but if I fire it again some of the ammo goes off. I did check my primer depth and it seems ok because I can see a mark by the firing pin.
My experience is that 100% if the time if the second strike of the firing pin causes the primer to fire, it was high. The first strike will leave a shallower indentation as it fully seats the primer. Compare the first strike impression with the second strike impression.

Current production primers are VERY resistant to oils and solvents. I have soaked primers for days in mineral spirits and they fired just fine while still wet. Others have soaked them in WD-40 for weeks and they fired just fine. I don't believe a little skin oil is going to deaden anything. YMMV. But if it did deaden the primer, it would fire no matter how hard it was struck.

Some very useful information on primers can be found here.
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Old April 20, 2014, 08:10 PM   #13
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There are a number of things going on here that need to be addressed.

Already asked, have you successfully fired factory rounds with the same results? If so, gun issue and most likely not your handiwork.

You did not describe the type of bullet you are using. If it is anything other than XTP, your charge is too high and you need to consult data. If you are using XTP, you're at the max load and I suggest you back off to the mid-point until you resolve this issue.

Next, you say you have a crimp die, are you in fact using it? A 9mm round doesn't require a crimp. The neck tension created by removing the bell should be more than sufficient to seal the bullet inside the round. Also, this is where I am guessing the fail is if you do not have a "gun issue." When you size your cases are you testing to make sure a bullet can only begin to slip inside? If so, you should be good to go. That will create enough neck tension to seal the round when you seat the bullet. Take a look at your prepared cases and mate a bullet to it. If that bullet can move far into the case, you need to adjust the die. Check your instructions as well as YouTube demos from Lee showing you how to set up your dies.

Have you taken apart any of your rounds that failed to fire? If so, have your primers discharged? I have been loading for just over a year now and I have NEVER had a CCI primer failure (+5k rounds). If you had said the primers were Tula/Wolf, that would be different as failures occur, usually requiring a second strike with that brand.

Also, with regard to CCI and 9mm cases, I have yet to experience a scenario where the primer seats below the head stamp. I haven't found that there is enough room in the primer pocket to create that issue, but those with more years of experience than me may say otherwise. Obviously your primer needs to be flush with the base of the case.

Good luck and please be very careful in your work.
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Old April 20, 2014, 08:14 PM   #14
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I too would suspect primer first. It sounds like you need to adjust the primer seating depth on the load master.
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Old April 20, 2014, 09:06 PM   #15
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My bet goes on the primer not being fully seated.
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Old April 20, 2014, 10:03 PM   #16
Micglennona74
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9mm FTF reload ammo

I am using a Glock 34 and the shell that I am using is once fired shell that I bought from the gun show. I will check my primer depth again and I hope it will solve my problem. Using a factory ammo have mo problem. Tnx guys.
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Old April 21, 2014, 10:39 AM   #17
Urban_Redneck
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Make sure your bench and press mounting are rock solid, a little looseness can make it difficult to fully seat primers.

YMMV
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Old April 21, 2014, 11:42 AM   #18
243winxb
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1. Clean the firing pin channel. http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe...2017%20Striker 2. The round headspaces on the case mouth. To much crimp will cause the ammo to misfire.
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Old April 21, 2014, 07:26 PM   #19
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Seat the primers till they don't go any farther---period!!
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Old April 21, 2014, 11:12 PM   #20
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I ran into a similar prob. But to this day not sure what it was... All I can say is that it was below -0 when I was at the range and the gun was "Froze"
Anyway... Enough about that... I do a little gunsmithing on the side and when i got it home I took it all apart and gave it a full clean... I live in town so after it was all clean and back together I loaded up about 5 casings with JUST PRIMERS. And went out into my semiprivate back yard and (keeping it pointed in a safe direction and the ground) pulled the trigger on all of them..
It sounds almost like a kids cap gun just a little bit louder. They all went off just fine.
So,,,,,,,,, I guess I might be trying to say that if it was winter time, very cold, gun is very cold and it is a bit dirty, then that might be your prob.
How old is your gun?
My first thought is right with everyone else... I would bet that your primers were not deep enough. Check that first....
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Old April 21, 2014, 11:53 PM   #21
riverratt
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I just started loading for 9mm myself but have a couple of thousand under my belt. I started (sucessfuly loading) with a couple hundred starline brass i picked up, no problem. When i started picking up range brass i ran into problems. All brass was trimmed to the same length and loaded the same. I was useing cci 500 primers and had the same problem.

After several FTF's i took the remaining rounds home and guess what i found, you got it high primers. I think the combanation of a tight primer pocket and the hard cci primers just took too much pressure to seat with my lee auto prime. I solved this problem by useing winchester WSP primers. I now have loaded over 1500 rounds with the WSP with no FTF's
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Old April 22, 2014, 08:49 AM   #22
Gadawg88
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IMO, the problem of high primers has nothing to do with using CCI primers. It is just a failure to seat the primer till it bottoms out, then just a touch more forcing the anvil into the priming compound. It can happen with any brand. I have loaded many thousands of rounds using CCI and have had just one round with a high primer. That was my fault, not the primer's. I was trying to load too fast and short stroked that round on the priming stage.
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