How do you decide which powder ?

[tpcollins]

I'm still a newbie reloading, I've loaded .243, .40 S&W, and .380 auto so far. In the .243 I loaded 70gr Nosler varmit tip on top of Varget and 90gr ballistic tip on top of H4350.

I picked up some 62gr Barnes varmit grenades today just to see how they'd shoot. In the Barnes reloading manual, the only powder listed that I had was the H4350, plus 5 others. On the Hogden Powder site for this bullet, it lists 12 different powders, and Varget is the only one I have. Plus H414 and Win 760 was the only common powders on both lists.

Although confused, based on the powder burn rate chart, the fastest burning IMR3031 uses less grains to achieve nearly the same fps as the slower burning H414 but at a higher grain weight. But if I have Varget (rated 117) and H4350 (rated 140), is one of these better than the other or should I look for a different powder? Which powder for .243 1-9" twist is better - less and faster burning or more and slower burning? Thanks.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Don't confuse yourself.

Varget should work fine. Try it, if you like where the holes end up in the paper, you're golden. If not, try something else.

Use what you have first, if you find suitable load data. If not, buy something that you CAN find suitable data for....

When you're first starting, that's the way to be.

Varget should work very well with that combination. H4350 would work, but you'd probably end up near or at compressed loads. Varget would be more efficient.

[wncchester]

You've paid the manual makers figger out which powders are best, pick one or two or three that give the hightest speed and see which shoots best for you.

[Slamfire]

In the big scheme of things, you really only "need" two rifle powders : IMR 4895 and IMR 4350. These powders will cover most everything quite well, as long as you discount blackpowder cartridges and the largest belted magnums.

There is a tiny difference between AA4350/IMR4350 and H4350. At one time or another, AA4350 and H4350 were advertized as duplicates of IMR 4350.

I tried IMR 4350 in the 243 and was able to duplicate factory velocities without stiff bolt lift or pierced primers.

Accuracy sucked, but it was not the powders I tried, rather the barrel sucked. I had that rifle rebarreled to 308.

I only buy ball powders if they are on sale. Ball powders have given me hangfires in cold weather and the one I have used AA2520, is peaky. Blow primers without much warning. Stick powders give big sweet spots and burn cleaner. At least in my guns.

Ball powders throw better but there is no on target advantage against the short stick powders as you will find.

I prefer short cut stick powders to long cut. IMR 4064 is an outstanding stick powder but you have to weigh it, and that is true of IMR 4350.

[jimbob86]

Ball powders have given me hangfires in cold weather

Speer #13 notes this, and for large charges of ball powder, many of their loads with these powders specify a Magnum primer. My own investigation with H414 in .270 WIN bore this out: better and more consistant velocities in cold weather when using magnum primers with H414 in cold temps.

[castnblast]

Varget very good - What you will notice is lighter bullets will prefer faster burn rate and heavier for caliber will prefer the slower powders. For your 243, 80gr and under, I use Varget. For over 80, I find Hybrid V100 (hodgdon) works very well, as does H4350, and H4831. (especially on 100 gr and up). For my 40, I use Longshot and HS6. HS6 is for my practice rounds, and Longshot is for my high velocity 135gr home protection rounds. I use 10.5 gr of longshot with the Nosler 135gr HP. HS 6 - work up. It can build pressures fast, depending on your barrel length, and what you are shooting.

[Slamfire]

Speer #13 notes this, and for large charges of ball powder, many of their loads with these powders specify a Magnum primer. My own investigation with H414 in .270 WIN bore this out: better and more consistant velocities in cold weather when using magnum primers with H414 in cold temps.

I think it is just easier to use stick powders. No special measures to make the stuff go bang.

[jimbob86]

Speer #13 notes this, and for large charges of ball powder, many of their loads with these powders specify a Magnum primer. My own investigation with H414 in .270 WIN bore this out: better and more consistant velocities in cold weather when using magnum primers with H414 in cold temps.

I think it is just easier to use stick powders. No special measures to make the stuff go bang.

Aye, they do seem to burn more predictably due to temps ....... BUT ....... (there's always a but!: TANSTAAFL) ..... they meter more consistantly and are generally cheaper, IME.

[Clark]

Speer 12 and Speer 13 are as phony as a $3 bill for choosing powders.
They show the loads with different powders in a hierarchy of velocities, but they are all at different pressures, so the comparison is meaningless.

11 years later, I am still angry I took my first load book seriously.

Quickload is only ~ $150 and gets the job done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3RkvTxW4lE

[Mike / Tx]

I go about it a bit different than some I guess. I don't look for the absolute top end in velocity when looking into a new load.

I normally consult two or three manuals, plus what ever online data I can get from the manufacturers. What I look for are powders that usually show up in a variety of bullet weights, and calibers, and will usually give a 80% or so fill to the case. For the .243, this is usually the 3031 through 4831 type or burn rate powders. They are the medium to slower of the lot listed in the manuals, and usually give the best overall accuracy and velocity combination. As for the burn charts, they are a guide, but depending n the lot they tested your particular lot could be faster or slower than what might be listed on any of them at any given time. They are a good comparison tool, but thats about as far as I go with them.

When I was a younger fellow, I liked to idea of running everything full tilt to get all I could from it. As I got older and more experienced, and picked up other rifles, I found that speed isn't the end all, I once thought it was. Accuracy and consistency is WAY more important to me than squeaking out the last 5fps from a load. If you stick with the medium to slower powders, you will find that your load consistency or sweet spot as mentioned above, will be over a wider range of temperatures, and conditions. When you work it up in 85 - 95 degree weather, it will still be very close to dead on in 20 degree weather with possibly only a minor adjustment of your scope for longer range shots.

To me this is way more important than having a load which is on the top end, and changes POI for every 10 degrees, or which will iron out a primer with a 20 degree rise in temp from what I worked it up at. For the weight bullet your asking about I really cannot say what would be best, I never loaded anything less than 85grs for mine. For that load I found that IMR-3031 worked the best in my rifle, why, because it is what I had on hand, and it shot on average 3/8" to 1/2" groups at 100yds year round. It also worked just as good on deer as it did on yotes or crows.

Good luck on your loads, and I hope this helps out some. The one thing you DON'T want to do is end up with 10 different powders sitting around that you only loaded 4 different loads from, and didn't find a use for it. Thats one thing about looking at the manuals, and cross referencing the the powders. The medium to slower ones work in a variety of calibers, where the faster ones don't always have that benefit.

[ryalred]

For what your doing, I'd go with the Varget. Varget shoots the lighter weight .243 bullets really well.

[jimbob86]

The one thing you DON'T want to do is end up with 10 different powders sitting around that you only loaded 4 different loads from, and didn't find a use for it.

One nice thing about having 4 or 5 different manuals around is that you can find a load for a particular use: it may not be the BEST load, but it will push the bullet....... a grass rat can't tell if you used H335 or IMR 4064 or H414 or Varget to launch the bullet that vaporized his midsection......... in a pinch, they all will work.

[noylj]

How to select a powder--
Open a reloading manual and see which three powders gave the highest velocity.
Determine if they are stick or ball.
Select the best stick and the best ball.
Buy them. Load them at the starting load. Shoot them so you have at least 5 3-shot groups with each.
Further refine the load in terms of charge weight and then COL.
You now have a load that is probably 90% as good as you will get.
If you want, you can then try other powders and start the whole game of case prep. However, do try to change only one thing at a time and be sure that any change is really a positive change on the target.
Some people worry about stick powders being cut by the powder measure or not dispensing to the exact weight.
What they ignore are about 50 years of benchrest and other usage where stick powders were run through powder measures and NEVER weighed. Competitors would discuss their loads in terms of the setting on their powder measure.
Then, they forget that no gun is sensitive to any variation below 1 or 2%.
Right now, we are in the midst of a mindset where only loads that are exactly the same are worth loading and people are spending an inordinate amount of time to reload for their commercial rifle without ever determining what does and doesn't actually make a difference. In many cases, they are probably getting worse accuracy as they will not go outside of their load-control mentality.
The mantra in "consistency in everything, whether it matters or not." The problem is that many times, that consistency is actually producing consistently less accurate loads.
I have not yet found a ball powder that was as accurate as a stick powder in my rifles. All guns are different, but people have loaded stick powders for more years than I and my father have been alive and never had any complaints.
Look at history and then look to rifle.

[A_Gamehog]

1). Your twist rate dictates your bullet weights.

2). Based on the bullets weights select one for your purpose, eg. heavy for deer? light for varmits?

3). Nolser has a great load map, it states the "Most accurate Powder" and denotes the most accurate load using that powder with an astrick *

This would get you started., the seating depth, primer choice, brass choice also have an effect on your success. This recipe would only be specific to your gun. Lots of good advice has already been given but this is how I do it.

[Doodlebugger45]

The easiest way is to just come to this forum and make a thread stating "I am loading .ABC caliber with XYZ weight bullets made by Acme Ace Magic Bullet Mfg to shoot out of my Presto Neato Shootin' Iron with a 25" barrel. Does anyone have any recommendations about powder?"

You will instantly get about 14 different powder recommendations by the leading experts in the industry (some of whom never even heard of that caliber before you asked). You will also get suggestions about the meriits of various presses to load the round, advice on the quality of your firearm and the wisdom of that caliber in general, along with opinions regarding your sanity in general for even thinking about that brand of bullet. You might even trigger a debate about the 2nd Ammendment.

But you'll definitely get a lot of expert advice. We're here to help!

[Colorado Redneck]

Doodlebooger---that is funny!! Opinions are like other things, most notably that one anatomical feature we all pack around and sit on.

There are probably10-12 jugs of powder on the shelf downstairs. And about 4 of them get used regular like. Also, there are maybe 10 partial boxes of bullets that never get loaded. And some primers that aren't what I thought. That is one of the costs of this fascinating, addicting, and enjoyable hobby.

TP--Use load manuals, don't get hung up on velocity, and try your best to not blow yourself or anybody else up. That requires very thorough reading manuals and adhering to the steps and procedures. Making things up as you go can be a big mistake.

[wowie_howie]

Hi everyone - Long time first time.
In response to Clark: I've used Speer 12 for many years and started out using it from the very beginning. With only very few exceptions, I've found it to be trustworthy for developing almost all my current reloads. Like everyone says: Start low and work your way up.

[HiBC]

Nosler denotes
'most accurate load tested",i give that some weight,unless it is 300 fps slower.it is not the only accurate load.Sierra gives a recommended hunting load,and a recommended accuracy load.
Like others,I have found some versatile powders.Varget and,in my case,H4831sc work out well.I also like Re-15,Re19 as a combination that is versatile.
Generally,a powder that is on the quick side will show a max load in the lower velocity ranges.It gets too much pressure too soon.Generally,when max load is determined by case capacity,compressed loads at low veocity,its a bit slow.Generally,if I see an over 90% case fill and no compression,at a top contender velocity for a given bullet weight,and its a powder I stock,I load some and go shoot.If it performs well,I may be done.If I need something more,I study for alternatives,and may buy a lb of something new to try.Say,maybe benchmark.maybe its not so good for 75 gr 233 loads,but it is good for .405 Win loads.They get used.
And,on the advise to throw out the manuals and get Quickload....
That is a bit like buying a GPS and throwing out the map and compass.Quickload is a good tool.I consult my brother who has it.I will still compare it to the manuals and other sources,just to get a bigger picture.

[oneoldsap]

I didn't see where anyone mentioned load density ! Load density is one of the criteria I reference when choosing a powder . I prefer that my cases are filled to 85% capacity or more . Makes ignition more consistent , thus less SD between rounds ! The Nosler manuals have this info in them !

[hammie]

@Slamfire: Thank you slamfire, for letting me know that I am not totally crazy. Like most of you, I have found that extruded powders are more forgiving when approaching max loads. No sudden pressure spikes. Plus you don't have the ignition issues. Extruded powders also seem to give me more accurate loads over wider ranges than ball powders. (I can usually find ONE load and bullet weight with a ball powerer that works well. The problem is finding that one load, and when you do find it, odds are that it is not what you want.) The only downside is the metering problem, but that has greatly improved with the "short cut" extruded powders.

@slamfire again: I was also pondering your statement about only needing two powders for rifle reloading. So true. I can load about 95% of my cartridges with 4350, 4895, 2400, and unique. I use those in everything from .25 ACP up to .300 Win mag, and even 20/28 gauge shotgun. The only real problem child is my .221 fireball. 4895 is too slow and 2400 is too fast. 4198 is just about right.

@tpcollins: 'oneold sap" has a good point about loading density. I would try to pick a powder that came close to filling the case. I lot of load data for the .243 recommends the medium burning powders. However, when you look at the expansion ratio (ratio of bore diameter squared to the case capacity) the .243 tends to fall more in the magnum rifle category. Consequently, I like the slower powders for the .243. In any case, it sounds like you're on the right track, and don't need much advice from us.

[HiBC]

oldsap,I do agree with you on load density.Try looking over my post just above yours.I don't use the words load density,I said case fill...
But,we agree.
And,I'll say again,as a general trend,loads listed as max,that have the lower velocities,but low load density,are usually a quicker powder than ideal.They may be quite accurate,or,as in 4895 and the Garand,they may generate a proper pressure curve.

Top velocities with good load density points toward a proper burn rate.

Lower velocities with over 100% case fill (compressed),would point toward too slow of a powder.

Once you are in the zone,you may fine tune on target between say,4831,4350,Re-19,Re-22,etc.
Example,I get decent results in .223,75 gr bullets with Varget,but Re-15 has a slight edge for me..very stable velocities shot to shot and a few more fps.

[TheNatureBoy]

I decided by taking the advice of someone who loaded for a 7mm rem mag for a while. I was at Green Tops near Richmond, Va. in their reloading supply section. I struck up a conversation with another customer and asked him what would be a good powder/bullet combo for my 7mm Rem Mag Sendero. He told me 63.5 grains of RE-22 under a 160 grain pill. I'm still thanking him : )

[wncchester]

The Doodlebugger is not only a knowledgeable loader, he is an asture observer of near instant web shooting/reloading experts with a 100% loading density of misleading and extraneous/irrelivant data!