Question for New Jersey, FFl Dealers

Pahoo · May 30, 2012, 06:54 PM

Looking at buying a Muzzleloader from a dealer in New Jersey. This is not a C&B revolver but rather a single shot "front-loader". He is telling me that his state's law, reguires that he only ships to FFFL dealers in other states. This is the first time I have heard of this and was wondering if it's true. Again, he will not ship, to a private home. I have spoken to one of my dealers and he is puzzled by this and not sure what is required of him, once he recieves this M/L. I thank you for your attention and feedback. ....

Be Safe !!!

Willie Sutton · May 30, 2012, 07:26 PM

NJ requires that BP stuff be sold exactly like "real" firearms.
Even though the BATF could care less, the NJSP does.

Most dealers there just use "real gun rules" for all of their stuff. if he insists on shipping it to a FFL... let him. Your FFL can just hand it to you without any paperwork, and will likely not charge the usual transfer fee. I had to have this done myself, it was a bit of an extra step, but it is what it is.

Willie

.

Pahoo · May 30, 2012, 07:54 PM

Hey Willie-Man, I surely thank you and thought I was getting some kind of lawyer CYA story. Glad I waited before jumping to conclusions ...

Be Safe !!!

Ajtozzi · May 30, 2012, 08:06 PM

Welcome to our world here in NJ! As stated above NJ dealers will never ship to anyone but an FFL.

Enjoy your new toy!

war_elephant · May 30, 2012, 08:11 PM

NJ gun laws treat bb guns and black powder firearms the same as centerfire/real guns. You have to get a pistol permit to purchase a single shot black powder pistol, or a firearms ID card for a long gun black powder. Most dealers dont bother with bp pistols here for that reason. It is a Crime in NJ to receive a bp firearm pistol or rifle without purchasing it from a NJ licenced firearms dealer.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 30, 2012, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by War Elephant

It is a Crime in NJ to receive a bp firearm pistol or rifle without purchasing it from a NJ licenced firearms dealer.

This raises a question for me.

NOTE: I am NOT intending to propose anything illegal. But ... I would like to know if someone can help clarify whether or not this is legal -- and, if not, why not.

It is NOT against the law to purchase or to receive a black powder firearm from sources other than an FFL in most other states -- such as Pennsylvania. I can walk into a Cabelas and walk out with a black powder replica revolver without filling out any forms or signing anything other than the charge card slip -- if I don't pay cash. And, since such sales are completely unregulated, nobody knows or cares if the buyer is a resident of the store where the sale takes place. As far as I know, it's 100 percent legal for a resident of New Jersey, New York, or California to purchase a black powder firearm in Pennsylvania. In fact, I can order a black powder revolver from Cabelas and they can ship it to me across state lines -- legally (except, perhaps, if I lived in NJ).

Which leads to the logical question: If a NJ resident were to trek over to Cabelas in PA and buy a black powder revolver (or long gun), is it unlawful for him or her to bring it home to NJ? He wouldn't be buying it in NJ. The purchase would be legal at the point of purchase. Since he already owns it by the time he gets to NJ, he wouldn't be receiving it in NJ.

What does NJ statute say about this (if anything)?

Willie Sutton · May 31, 2012, 09:17 AM

"What does NJ statute say about this (if anything)?"

From what I have read, bearing in mind that I have read the entirety of the statues as a "layman (former) resident with a sincere interest", the statutes seem silent on the precise subject. The statutes seem to deal specifically with purchase (on a pistol permit) and inheritance, but not purchase out of state of an unregulated item and then subsequent importation.

From a practical standpoint, it's the most common way to procure BP items in NJ. But posession outside of the home requires the same NJ state firearms ID, transport requirements directly to/from range, etc.. and again, from a "practical" standpoint, if you act with one the same way that you would act with any other "legally procured" firearm you are not likely to be hassled.

But... in the end... "Tell it to the Judge" after a prosecutor takes the case. I have absolutely no doubt that if you misbehaved with one (IE: had them taken during a domestic "violence" incident), that they will use anything they can to try to make a case, and your "unregistered" BP arms would be a point to argue.

There IS a voluntary form to register a firearm in NJ... "probably" the way to perfectly legalize a BP arm purchased out of state would be to use that process.

A lawyers eyes on the statutes with some introspective comment would be most welcome.

Willie

.

May 30, 2012, 06:54 PM	#1
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Question for New Jersey, FFl Dealers Looking at buying a Muzzleloader from a dealer in New Jersey. This is not a C&B revolver but rather a single shot "front-loader". He is telling me that his state's law, reguires that he only ships to FFFL dealers in other states. This is the first time I have heard of this and was wondering if it's true. Again, he will not ship, to a private home. I have spoken to one of my dealers and he is puzzled by this and not sure what is required of him, once he recieves this M/L. I thank you for your attention and feedback. .... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

May 30, 2012, 07:54 PM	#3
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Live and learn !!! Hey Willie-Man, I surely thank you and thought I was getting some kind of lawyer CYA story. Glad I waited before jumping to conclusions ... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing. Last edited by Pahoo; May 31, 2012 at 09:48 AM.

May 30, 2012, 08:11 PM	#5
war_elephant Member Join Date: June 29, 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 70	NJ gun laws treat bb guns and black powder firearms the same as centerfire/real guns. You have to get a pistol permit to purchase a single shot black powder pistol, or a firearms ID card for a long gun black powder. Most dealers dont bother with bp pistols here for that reason. It is a Crime in NJ to receive a bp firearm pistol or rifle without purchasing it from a NJ licenced firearms dealer. __________________ Marine, Retired LEO, Firearms Instructor, Life Member NRA Tea Party Member, and general all around trouble maker.

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May 30, 2012, 07:26 PM	#2
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	NJ requires that BP stuff be sold exactly like "real" firearms. Even though the BATF could care less, the NJSP does. Most dealers there just use "real gun rules" for all of their stuff. if he insists on shipping it to a FFL... let him. Your FFL can just hand it to you without any paperwork, and will likely not charge the usual transfer fee. I had to have this done myself, it was a bit of an extra step, but it is what it is. Willie .

May 30, 2012, 08:06 PM	#4
Ajtozzi Member Join Date: September 14, 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 87	Welcome to our world here in NJ! As stated above NJ dealers will never ship to anyone but an FFL. Enjoy your new toy!

May 31, 2012, 09:17 AM	#7
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	"What does NJ statute say about this (if anything)?" From what I have read, bearing in mind that I have read the entirety of the statues as a "layman (former) resident with a sincere interest", the statutes seem silent on the precise subject. The statutes seem to deal specifically with purchase (on a pistol permit) and inheritance, but not purchase out of state of an unregulated item and then subsequent importation. From a practical standpoint, it's the most common way to procure BP items in NJ. But posession outside of the home requires the same NJ state firearms ID, transport requirements directly to/from range, etc.. and again, from a "practical" standpoint, if you act with one the same way that you would act with any other "legally procured" firearm you are not likely to be hassled. But... in the end... "Tell it to the Judge" after a prosecutor takes the case. I have absolutely no doubt that if you misbehaved with one (IE: had them taken during a domestic "violence" incident), that they will use anything they can to try to make a case, and your "unregistered" BP arms would be a point to argue. There IS a voluntary form to register a firearm in NJ... "probably" the way to perfectly legalize a BP arm purchased out of state would be to use that process. A lawyers eyes on the statutes with some introspective comment would be most welcome. Willie .