New Firearms Manufacturer

[2am]

Love my hammer on my sigs and the ability to change grips out

This is a Hammer Pistol

[2am]

Hey.... I got the quote to work.

[2am]

The gun should be capable of firing without a magazine installed.

Leejack, note taken, thanks

[2am]

The only way I can see that you have any chance to succeed is to match the Glocks, SIGs, Springfield XDs Ruger, S&W and CZs in performance and do it at a lower price. Few shooters will take a chance on a new product that has nothing to offer over an old trusted product at the same price.

While we respect all other makes, and I personally own some of their products, the above companies are not our competition. We will be building a superior product in much lower numbers. Superior machine work, superior metallurgy, lots of customization options, and a TRANSFERABLE lifetime guarantee. We really appreciate the input and advice, you will be happy with the result. please keep up with the ideas.

[speedrrracer]

Any insight would be wonderful.

The competition market is under-targeted, imo. Everyone is trying to make the next Glock, so they can get huge LEO / MIL contracts, which is an overcrowded and rough market.

So when they come out with a "competition" model, it's just a gussied-up military model. I'm not saying you shouldn't pander to the LEO / MIL crowd with a model or 3 -- everyone needs to make a buck. I'm saying there's an opportunity to build a serious brand that's wide open.

Consider Production division for USPSA / IPSC. The two best guns for that division, the Tangfolio and the Accu-Shadow, are pricey (1200-1700 bucks) and often impossible to buy, because demand far outstrips supply. Both those guns are just rip-offs (very well-done rip-offs) of the endlessly recycled 1911 design, but they tick the important boxes: they're full-size, very heavy, very accurate, and can be made to have "good enough" triggers.

Neither of them offers fully ambidextrous controls, neither is known for exceptional reliability, neither is known for ease / simplicity of maintenance, and a more modern design could sweep that entire niche off it's feet, if the product is worthy and availability can be maintained.

Is it a huge market segment? Not even close. But it is a segment you could own, and a platform from which you could learn a ton (nothing shows weakness better than the stresses of competition). Do it right, and you can build a brand off the reputation earned in the crucible of competition. You can demand a nice price point (Accu-Shadows are 1,665 bucks and cannot be kept in stock), accessories / parts will sell like mad (competitors love to customize and because they shoot more than everyone else, consumables are used at a greater rate).

Good luck with your new company

[gyvel]

I truly, sincerely hope that it will be an all-steel gun.

[Jim Watson]

I think there is a place for an aluminum receiver to keep weight down. It's just a 9mm.

Like speedracer, I would like to see a new gun with the accuracy, reliability, durability, and ergonomics to help me do my best in (IDPA) competition.
But I do have a little difficulty seeing the 1911 connection in the CZ and copy he mentions.

[9mmhpfan]

A quality 9mm hi power clone at an affordable price would a great hit. Lots of clones on 1911 on market not any hi power clones.

[glove]

Remake the Glock 42 in 9mm.

[wayneinFL]

Traditionally, the MSRP will be about 7 times the factory material and labor cost. The retail (or MSRP) can't be set arbitrarily; it has to be based on the cost of manufacture, plus other costs (tooling amortization, factory rent, insurance, etc.) plus distributor profit, plus dealer profit.

Actual prices are set by the market anyway.

The competition market is under-targeted, imo. Everyone is trying to make the next Glock, so they can get huge LEO / MIL contracts, which is an overcrowded and rough market.

If you're going after the high end market, this is where I would go. If it's double action, I don't want a manual safety. If it's single action, I want a frame mounted safety.

I don't own one, but I do like the "sight tracker" that Infinity uses on limited class guns.

[softmentor]

I guess I'm late to the party considering all the great ideas, but here's my punch list

I love H&K so that is my first clue
I do NOT like a grip that has finger rolls. They are NOT one size fits all. They never fit my hand. I prefer the old USP 45 over the hk45 grip for that reason If you like finger rolls, there are lots of after market grips. Work with after-market manufacturers and get them on board to make add-ons for your pistol.
I do like interchangeable back strap for different size hands.
Standard sites = no horn, no snag, easy draw from holster basic. Make night sites and adjustable sites optional and available. Again work with vendors for add-ons.
Barrel - accurate of course, either something like the HK polygonal or 5 grove. Great crown.
Trigger - SHORT crisp, clean DA/SA with decock. Second option DA only. both available at time of first release.
Should run on any ammo. I hate finicky.
Recoil reduction is really nice.
ambidextrous features make great features. or at least make really simple changeable parts that anyone with really basic skills and no special tools can do.
Don't be afraid to make a GREAT gun and make it a little on the high side price wise. You can always discount later. But I believe people will pay for quality. At least I will. Go quality. Beat the Glock/Sig/H&K German engineers at their game. There are already "pretty good, cheap" 9's out there. Don't really see a big market for another pretty good one. and hard to beat them at the cheap end unless you are better than masters of production and have an amazing array of advertizing and marketing ideas to get up to the volume needed. Start small, win small, grow steady, never never never never never forget quality.
Sponsor a 1,000 round challenge and a 5,000 round challenge. Your gun against any and all challengers. Who can go the longest before a failure? Fewest failures? (Yes I am available to help shoot : )
Great quality control
Great customer service
The last two cost money and win loyal, paying customers.
Again, start now on cultivating relationships with the best names in aftermarket vendors to support your product. Ruger 22's, Remington rifles, S&W revolvers all have great followings, and they continue to grow, partly because you can get so many customizable widgets and thingies and do-dads for them. You mention you will use existing mags, make sure ALL the manufactures and sales outlets add your name to the compatibility lists on their web sites and literature. Grips, holsters, sites, lights, mags, and more and of course dealers.
Especially holsters, we never seem to think about it untill we have one and can't find a single blinkin one when we do a search at the holster makers web page. There should be at least a dozen great holster options for casual range, competition, carry , duty, kydex, leather, 50 options in all , or more, on opening day. Give the manufactures each 2 of them free so they can have molded fitted models ready, in stock, listed on their web site on your release date. Give a rebate coupon for holsters and point to the holster makers on your web site.

and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE not another 1911, that was over 100 years ago and (in my never to be humble opinion) the market is saturated. Got to be something better.

Tenacious persistence will produce a better product that making a deadline. Deadlines are good, but don't die on that hill.

P.S. Of course, since I'm in CA it would have to have 10 round mags, mag disconnect, chamber indicator, and microstamping and all the CA "stuff" for a CA model. Make the original so that it can also be fitted with all the CA features without having to turn it into a pretzel or completely redesigning it.

P.P.S. and make it with only 8 parts that never break, never wear out, and all clean themselves. is that to much to ask?

.

[nc-oldfart]

. I would like to see a thin slide of .90 to .94 that can use a quality aftermarket sight dove tail . Optional thin and thick grip panels . OAL of length of 6 1/4" and a 3 1/2" barrel and able to use a s&w model 59 mag . No priority mag at least. tWeight of 21oz lbs. If the frame was aluminum and stainless steel slide with a mat finish to brown or black mag release and safety functions form both sides.

Think about a larger all metal version of sccy cpx-1 with a lighter da and sa trigger pull .

[RC20]

I am highly skeptical this is legit.

[Model12Win]

Be sure to use phrases like "tactical" and "operator" in all your advertising in order to survive in the current market.

[Cosmodragoon]

RC20 wrote:

I am highly skeptical this is legit.

This could be legit. It could be a couple of entrepreneurial hopefuls brainstorming at Starbucks. It could be a kid working on a business project for school. It could be some unwashed weirdo in vinyl pants and bunny ears typing away from his grandma's basement. Here on the web, how can you be sure of anything?

If nothing else, it sure is fun to sample marketing opinions from the best collection of gun nerds on the web. I've enjoyed this thread.

[Sevens]

No expense is being spared in the quality or materials in the 2am product. From the precision grinding to the hard chroming of parts we strive to build a quality handgun to the standards of companies like Sig, at a price point much lower.

We are American owned and American made.

re: Glocks, SIGs, Springfield XDs Ruger, S&W and CZ

While we respect all other makes, and I personally own some of their products, the above companies are not our competition. We will be building a superior product in much lower numbers. Superior machine work, superior metallurgy, lots of customization options, and a TRANSFERABLE lifetime guarantee.

So this new pistol will be built to the standard of Sig, but at a lower price point, and it will be a better product than what is being delivered by Glock, Sig, Springfield's XD line, Ruger and Smith & Wesson.

And produced with the finest talent & labor, here in the USA, with the associated cost of pure American labor.

And this isn't an established brand, it's a start-up company with a blank-sheet design and (seemingly) new tooling?

And it's NOT going to be profitable via volume production, it's instead going to be made in lower numbers?

Is there going to be voodoo, black magic and a beanstalk involved?!

If you guys grow bored with the handgun idea, your next product oughta be gasoline. You could market a fuel that gives every automobile in America a 12% boost in fuel economy with an included 5% increase in raw power, and you can sell this gasoline at $2.65 a gallon. This might take off pretty well also.

[2am]

Be sure to use phrases like "tactical" and "operator" in all your advertising in order to survive in the current market.

Thanks for the input, however we will be direct marketing, not pandering to the lowest common denominator of what key word raises a google ranking. We will not be using any keywords or phrases to compete with another products advertising. Our product will speak for itself. They make and sell their thing, we make and sell ours.

As to the critics, yes we are real, and more information will be coming as quickly as we can release it.

Steve

[DannyB1954]

And don't be Diamondback

I have a Diamondback DB9 that I really like. I have not had a single issue with it, and it fits in a pocket real well. I bought it to replace a Beretta Nano jam'o'matic.

[Calhoun123]

As Sevens pointed out above, things don't add up here. If this is legit, the conflicting statements made so far do not suggest business success, though they may have a good product (separate issues).

FWIW, the small businesses that have made it in the firearms industry in recent years have all done it based on filling a niche.

[Skans]

As to the critics, yes we are real, and more information will be coming as quickly as we can release it.

I'm not a critic, but I really do look forward to see the firearm(s) you will be making. So far, I like what I'm hearing - it sounds like you will be manufacturing a higher end product.

[full case load]

Will it make the CA DOJ "approved list"?

[vulcan73]

A quality piece like a Cold Detective Special for $400. I have a gut feeling though your products will be out of reach for us common folks and retirees.

[hunter11]

Add a Decocker and remove the rear sight

[kcub]

Please don't make it DAO. Way overrated.

I will never ever buy another DAO pistol.

Cosmetically I like the Sig Equinox series a lot.

[southjk]

2am, what is the price point going to be?