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Old April 25, 2013, 10:16 AM   #1
Beentown71
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Why new brass?

When you can buy loaded rounds for near as much and be able to shoot them and keep the brass?

For example I am seeing Winchester new brass for $38/100. I can find 45acp loaded ammo for $40-$50/100 most times.

So what is the purpose of the new brass? I don't ever see myself using it.
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Old April 25, 2013, 10:41 AM   #2
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$38/hundred sounds like Winchester or Remington retail store bags. Ridiculously expensive. New Mag Tech is $22.50/100 at Midsouth. But even that's high because of the quantity, especially for a brand some people don't favor. My recommendation is that you save your pennies and buy Starline. It lasts as well or better than Winchester and is made to higher tolerances, having about half the weight variation. You get 500 for $90 or 1000 for $156, to get $0.18/case or $0.156/case, respectively. Way better than $0.38/case.

P.S. Just noticed Midway has Starline at $19.99/100 if you are after a smaller quantity to try, but don't think the shipping will be worth it for the smaller quantity. Buying 500 or 1000 direct from Startline gives you equal or better to Midway price without Midway's shipping policies to deal with.
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Old April 25, 2013, 11:23 AM   #3
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“So what is the purpose of the new brass?”

In 10 words or less? There is not one source for brass, there is new, there is once fired, after once fired it becomes difficulty in determining the problem, the brass or the reloader.

I have brass that came in lots, it is not easy to accumulate new loaded ammo that can be considered ‘from the same lot’ outside of 20 per box.

Case forming: Nothing works like new brass, unfired brass, I have taken advantage of ‘deals’ made possible through distributors like Jeff and Pat. Both have new-unfired, pull down cases like 30/06 etc.. At .08 to .11 cents each it makes it possible for me to form a long list of different cases including 308 W, 8mm57, 7mm57, 257 Roberts, 6mm Remington, 7.7 Japanese etc., with a cost of .08 to .11 cents each maximum plus time.

I have purchased once fired cases from shooting ranges, not necessary for loadable cases, the ‘problem’ with new/unfired cases is case length from the shoulder back to the case head. Case length options are not a choice, case length new brass and new loaded ammo is fixed at minimum length/full length sized. I am a reloader, there is no excuse that can be made for my cases not fitting my chambers, new ammo is nice, I do not covet new ammo, I do know how to appreciate new/unfired cases.

Back to purchasing once fired cases from shooting ranges, I sort cases by head stamps and case length, again, my favorite cases are cases fired in trashy old chambers, not easy to move the shoulder forward on a new case, it cost less when someone else does that for me for .08 cents each. All I have to do is size the case to fit my chamber, one day I will figure a way to bump the shoulder, until then I will continue to measure the length of the chamber first then size/form.

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Old April 25, 2013, 11:36 AM   #4
Beentown71
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I can see going that route (new brass) with rifle more than pistol. Those Starline prices UncleNick put up are much more appealing than the retail bags of WW or Rem.
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Old April 25, 2013, 01:10 PM   #5
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If you are talking the incredibly common and popular chambering like the listed example (.45 Auto) then of course...I too would say, "WHY new brass?"

I don't believe a lot of folks are punching up Starline and buying 100 or 500 piece lots of .45, .38, 9mm () etc etc.

Now, if you want .41 Mag, .38 AutoComp, .41 AE, 10mm Magnum? It's a different conversation.

Starline, IMO, does not offer 9mm and .45 because handloaders are lining up to buy it. Starline sells 9mm and .45 in piece lots of...a million at a time to some ammo manufacturers. No, Winchester and Federal don't buy brass from Starline. But Buffalo Bore, Cor-Bon, maybe Black Hills and a dozen other smaller ammo companies do. Starline makes many metric tons of 9mm and .45, so it's no stretch for them to also offer it on their site.
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Old April 25, 2013, 01:39 PM   #6
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for common handgun calibers....( like 9mm, .45 acp especially ) ....you don't need to buy new brass...

.....just sweep up your share of what is bouncing around on the floors at your local range ...( I sweep up my own lane area from my own guns - and whatever bounces into my lane area ) every time I go to the range ...and go home with a Quart zip lock bag or so of range brass). Sort it by caliber ....clean it when you have several hundred.../ sort out the nasty looking stuff...and you're ready to reload the rest of it.

I have not bought brass ....except in revolver calibers ( .357 Mag and .44 mag ) in the last 20 yrs....
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Old April 25, 2013, 04:08 PM   #7
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I find my pistol brass lasts a long time and have only bought 357 magnum. My reloads are for plinking for the most part and a few hunting grounds.
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Old April 25, 2013, 04:23 PM   #8
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I have shot tons of range pickup brass.
That being said, if you want to turn out REALLY nice handloads, you are better off buying new brass. Hopefully all from the same lot.

I am not going to go into all the reasons, but will give you one.
.45 ACP and 9mm both headspace on the case mouth. Therefore, in order to get really good performance, all the cases need to be the same length. By the same token, if you are crimping the bullet, if the cases arn't all the same length, the crimps won't all be in the same place.

Again, I have loaded thousands upon thousands of .45s and 9mm using mixed brands of cases with an unknown history. But, if I had it to do over again, I would attempt to keep all my cases of the same brand.

This is one of those Handloader vs. Reloader things.
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Old April 25, 2013, 07:18 PM   #9
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Most of my hand gun brass is range pick up. The exception is .41 Mag. All of my .223 brass is range pick up. I wish I had more range pick up brass for my .45-70 Gov't. Though one guy did give me 40 once fired cases at the range. Said he had no interest in reloading for them.

I buy loaded ammo in 7,62x54R becase the PPU is reloadable, and cheaper than Norma brass. I bought the Norma brass once due to not being able to get the PPU. Yes the Norma is better. It is more uniform, though out of my rifles with the Trail Boss loads that my wife shoots I would not be able to tell a bit of differance.
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Old April 25, 2013, 09:39 PM   #10
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I've purchased new Starline 45 Auto brass and it is still going strong after more than a dozen loadings. I have since shot a bunch of Remington and Winchester factory loads and am starting to load that brass and probably won't spring for more new 45 Auto brass. My 45 Colt Blackhawk has never fired factory ammo though. Every round through it has been loaded in the 500 Starline cases I bought when I got the gun. I recently ordered my second batch of 500 45 Colt cases and my third batch of 357 Magnum. When I bought my 7mm-08 rifle I bought new Remington cases for it. It was cheaper to buy cases, powder, bullets and primers and load and shoot them to obtain fire-formed brass than it was to buy factory ammo and shoot it. When I got a 223 barrel it was cheaper to just buy factory ammo and shoot it to get the fire-formed brass so I went that route with it. When I got my first 9mm pistol I shot a bunch of factory ammo before buying dies so I have scads of 9mm cases and won't waste money buying new cases to load up plinking ammo. It all depends on the cartridge and what you want to do with it on whether buying new cases makes sense or not.
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Old April 26, 2013, 07:26 AM   #11
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The reason I bought Starline originally was just that nobody else in our local league was using it, so I had a different headstamp and could recover what I knew to be my brass more easily. Saved me time coloring the heads with Magic Marker. That's when I found out it was also made to tighter tolerances.
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Old April 26, 2013, 10:48 AM   #12
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At the time I bought Starline .357, it was the best deal avaible ( pre panic shortage ) wish I had bought more and will as soon as I can, I wanted new brass to start a new load ( just cause ) but sure like the Starline brass. I had a lot of mixed brass, which I don't like, now I know that all my Starline cases are the new load.
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Old April 26, 2013, 07:06 PM   #13
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Last spring I purchased 1000 44 special brass from Starline. At the time it was around $150. Most 44 special factory is selling for around 35$ a box of cowboy loads if you can find it.
That would be roughly 900$ to get that much brass. I can reload a lot of 44 special for 900$. And as others have said there are a lot of other good reasons to buy new.
I use a lot of range brass but I can’t ever remember finding 45 Colt or 44 special brass lying around.
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Old April 26, 2013, 11:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
My 45 Colt Blackhawk has never fired factory ammo though. Every round through it has been loaded in the 500 Starline cases I bought when I got the gun.
Same here except for the odd one or two. That goes for .357, .44Spec, .44Mag, and .45 Colt. Also I picked up 500 .45 ACP Starline awhile back. Only shoot the ACP in my revolvers anyway. You never see the non-auto rounds 'laying around'. Hence new brass. Only the auto shooters seem to leave their brass on the ground.... Plus the cost is less....
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Old April 27, 2013, 05:45 AM   #15
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cases

-I use new cases for serious ammo. I size all cases, new or used.

-I use once-fired cases for serious competition (USPSA).

-I use used cases for everything else.



Testing handgun ammo proves that a new case returns the highest velocity, and in virtually all chamberings, the finest accuracy. Each subsequent firing returns lower velocity, higher spreads, and diminished accuracy.
However, that is normally good enough for most of us.


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"It's ammo I or others may bet their life on."
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Old April 27, 2013, 10:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rclark
Also I picked up 500 .45 ACP Starline awhile back. Only shoot the ACP in my revolvers anyway. You never see the non-auto rounds 'laying around.
I'm wondering if you meant .45 Auto Rim rather than .45 ACP? The former has a rim, the latter is the rimless auto type.
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Old August 19, 2014, 06:32 AM   #17
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As several posters have said, serious hand loads can do better with new brass. Brass loses elasticity, every time you fire it. Serial lots of brass have same characteristics, that can and do change in between "lots".

Starline has excellent brass, at affordable prices and free shipping. Buying in quantity assures similar characteristics. Differing characteristics (case length and brass thickness as example) can cause problems during reloading.

That being said, just priced out 1000 rds of 7.62x25 using new brass, and it was over $50 cheaper to buy 1000 rounds of factory. Not an exacting comparison, because the factory rds were fmj, and the hand loads would have been lead soft points.

For several years bought Win 45 acp and 9mm fmj's, because it was cheaper than buying new components, and spending the time to load them.

Would then have lots of brass for reloading. Also can consider comparisons of more expensive calibers, like 44 mag, or 44 special.
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Old August 19, 2014, 07:56 AM   #18
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Rifle brass is once fired but for my straight wall pistol brass it is all range pick up with exception to full bore 44 magnum brass.
My hot 44 mag ammo is loaded in new brass and only reloaded about 25 times before it is moved over to the lower load limit brass.
Now days I rarely load and shoot hot 44 ammo.
Just wore recoil than I enjoy shooting these days.
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Old August 20, 2014, 01:39 PM   #19
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I only buy new brass for my odd balls, stuff that I can't find laying around at a range (i.e. .22 Hornet, .358 Winchester, .41 Mag, .45 Colt, .32 S&W Long, and .327 Federal Mag).

When I do buy new brass, I buy a couple hundred cases when I get the gun, and they'll last me for years.

For my common calibers (.270, '06, 9mm, .45 Auto, .38 Special, 7.62x54R, etc.), every case I have was either picked up when left by other shooters, or it was a hand-me-down from friends or family. I have about 50lbs of .45 Auto brass that was picked up by myself and my brothers, just in the last 2-3 years.


I do form some .358 Winchester from picked up .308, but I don't come across enough to make that my sole supply, so I picked up 100 factory cases before I bought the gun.

I can see buying brass to keep track of # of times loaded, keeping it grouped for competition, load development, etc, but I'm not that picky and am happy to use brass somebody else paid for whenever I can.
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Old August 21, 2014, 09:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
new brass for $38/100.
Brass that has already been through the horse is 5x cheaper.
http://www.once-fired-brass.com/?refresh=true

I have shot used mixed brass well in excess of 460 Rowland loads, and every brand seems to be good.
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Old August 21, 2014, 10:23 AM   #21
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When I got my 45 XDm several years ago, a friend gave me a (tin) gallon coffee can of fired brass. And over the years many bags of range brass. I have no idea of how many times it has been fired and don't really care. After I run it through the tumbler, I inspect each piece as I am putting into the shell holder, if it is split, it goes into the brass recycle bucket, if not it gets reloaded. I shoot lead SWC 200 gr with 4.2gr Bullseye, so I do not stress the brass. One thing I try to do is rotate the brass, so after each batch comes out of the tumbler, I bag it and date it, in 100 count groups. I love this hobby/sport or whatever it is called.
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Old August 21, 2014, 10:44 AM   #22
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Quote:
new brass for $38/100.
Depends upon where and how you buy it.

Walk into a retail store and you'll get hosed like that, or worse.

Midway has new Winchester .45ACP brass for $26.99 right now ...... and that took me almost no time ...... a more thourough search would no doubt find some cheaper than 27 cents apiece.
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Old August 21, 2014, 10:53 AM   #23
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I can't find .284 winchester brass to save me. :P might have to start buying actual 7.5x55 Swiss brass.
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Old August 21, 2014, 11:46 AM   #24
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I have to agree with many of the above posters that Starline is without a doubt a great place to get your common and uncommon brass. High quality and great price make it a must bookmark on a reloaders browser!
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