.359" LRN in .355" casing?

robhic · January 3, 2017, 05:28 PM

I have been using LRN bullets in .355-.356" diameter and marked for .38/.357 use. Work fine and I just got some LRN .359" bullets. If the 9mm case is flared enough, do you think the .359" soft lead bullets will work in a 9mm pistol? Don't want to force things but do you think the .359 soft bullets will work in my 9mm?

More curious than anything. If not, I'll just load more .38/.357 rounds!

Thanks!

**Unclenick** · January 3, 2017, 06:16 PM

Even jacketed bullets can be shot down a few thousandths. The added deformation just isn't always as accurate. I have an old surplus French MAB in .32 Auto with a .309" groove diameter bore. The commercial jacketed bullets for it are 0.312", but it doesn't have a pressure issue with the extra squeeze.

However, it's also nobody's idea of a target pistol.

I have seen some experiments showing that lead, in particular, starts to acquire uneven base swaging when you squeeze it down too far in a gun. Marshall Stanton at Beartooth Bullets wrote up an experiment with a revolver in his technical manual that showed accuracy improved when he went from 0.001" over groove to 0.002" over groove, but it got worse than 0.001" over groove when he upped it to 0.003" over groove. So you've got some experimenting ahead of you.

robhic · January 4, 2017, 10:09 AM

Quote:

I have seen some experiments showing that lead, in particular, starts to acquire uneven base swaging when you squeeze it down too far in a gun. Marshall Stanton at Beartooth Bullets wrote up an experiment with a revolver in his technical manual that showed accuracy improved when he went from 0.001" over groove to 0.002" over groove, but it got worse than 0.001" over groove when he upped it to 0.003" over groove. So you've got some experimenting ahead of you.

Thanks Uncle Nick! Being new to lead bullets I was checking to make sure the .359" soft lead wouldn't cause any problems (specifically safety ones...). I just got a new, SS aftermarket barrel for my Glock 9mm (don't tell Glock!

) so I can shoot lead strictly for paper-punching and target practice. Extreme accuracy not required but I'm now curious to compare different loads.

Thanks again for the info. I'm gonna get this lead-bullet stuff yet!!!

reddog81 · January 4, 2017, 10:32 AM

I agree with everything Unclenick said but want to add something.

You should be able to get them to work, but you might have problems seating them. Oversized bullets are more prone to having lead shave off on the mouth of the case which can cause problems chambering.

With bullets too big and soft lead I would be watching out for leading in the barrel. It can happen real quickly in 9mm.

**Unclenick** · January 4, 2017, 01:17 PM

Another thing is some brass may be thick enough at the neck so some cases won't chamber with the extra wide bullet in place. Just need to keep an eye out for cartridges that want to wedge into the chamber and jam the mechanism.

noylj · January 4, 2017, 01:54 PM

> If the 9mm case is flared enough, do you think the .359" soft lead bullets will work in a 9mm pistol

Wrong question.
You need a proper expander, and not just case mouth flare.
For a 0.359" bullet, the expander should open the case ID, over the length of the bullet, to 0.357-0.358".
This will require at least a .38 expander, if not a custom expander.
I have been shooting as-cast 0.358-0.359" lead bullets for just over 40 years without problem, but I have the right expander.
All you need to do is seat a bullet and then pull the bullet and measure the bullet diameter. If it isn't still 0.359", you need a larger expander...

robhic · January 4, 2017, 05:39 PM

Thanks for info on larger lead bullet and sizing down. I do a "plop test" before taking bullets to range. I'm assuming too large will stick in chamber so I'll know or won't fit under the barrel hood. I'll keep an extra-sharp eye out with this new info. Might need/get a better expander than the one die in my RCBS 9mm set. We'll see....

Mike38 · January 4, 2017, 10:33 PM

I load 125 grain TC .3585 poly coated lead bullets, labeled as .38Spcl in 9mm brass. I add a step in the reloading process and expand the case mouth with a .38Spcl expander die. This combination gives excellent accuracy in my Beretta 92FS, with no leading of the bore.

robhic · January 5, 2017, 10:22 AM

Quote:

I load 125 grain TC .3585 poly coated lead bullets, labeled as .38Spcl in 9mm brass. I add a step in the reloading process and expand the case mouth with a .38Spcl expander die. This combination gives excellent accuracy in my Beretta 92FS, with no leading of the bore.

Thanks. I have dies for 38/357, also. I went and tested a 9mm case run through my 9mm die and tried one of the .359" lead RN bullets just to see if it would sit in the case. It fit with no "persuasion" needed.

I might could use the .38 die (as you say - good idea) if I perceive any shaving.

The hand-seated bullet fit fine, if snug. I didn't fully seat it I just wanted to see how it fit with the normal 9mm die/expander plug I use. So far, I think this will work.

ShootistPRS · January 6, 2017, 01:38 PM

I recently read where one of the old wildcat celebrities chambered a 30 caliber barrel for 338 and fired it from a fixture to see what would happen. As the report goes the case showed no signs of over-pressure and the rifle was fired several times and then fired from the shoulder many times. There was no accuracy or velocity report as I recall but it was found to be safe.

The only problem that I can see is that you might have a loaded cartridge that won't chamber, especially if the chamber is tight. I used to fire .458 diameter lead bullets through my Colt Combat Commander. They shot to a 2" group at 25 yards repeatably. Once in a while I would have to tap the back of the slide to put the gun back into battery after it cycled but it worked fine on targets. The cases had a noticeable bulge where the bullet was but worked fine most of the time. One quick note here; I am right handed and always fired the gun left handed - I was competing in Hunter's Pistol Silhouette at the time and didn't want to mess up my grip pattern for my 357. It worked for me.

Dufus · January 6, 2017, 01:46 PM

A few years ago when I started casting for the 9, I started with 0.359" and finally settled on 0.357".

Anything larger would not chamber. It takes a little bit of push to get the 0.357" loaded cartridge to chamber which to me is a perfect fit.

**Unclenick** · January 6, 2017, 05:38 PM

Now were getting down into stuff that's going to be individual to the gun and chamber. At that point all we can do is advise a lot of experimentation to see what your particular gun really likes.

January 3, 2017, 05:28 PM	#1
robhic Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2016 Location: Outside of New Orleans, LA. Posts: 313	.359" LRN in .355" casing? I have been using LRN bullets in .355-.356" diameter and marked for .38/.357 use. Work fine and I just got some LRN .359" bullets. If the 9mm case is flared enough, do you think the .359" soft lead bullets will work in a 9mm pistol? Don't want to force things but do you think the .359 soft bullets will work in my 9mm? More curious than anything. If not, I'll just load more .38/.357 rounds! Thanks! __________________ - Robert

January 3, 2017, 06:16 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Even jacketed bullets can be shot down a few thousandths. The added deformation just isn't always as accurate. I have an old surplus French MAB in .32 Auto with a .309" groove diameter bore. The commercial jacketed bullets for it are 0.312", but it doesn't have a pressure issue with the extra squeeze. However, it's also nobody's idea of a target pistol. I have seen some experiments showing that lead, in particular, starts to acquire uneven base swaging when you squeeze it down too far in a gun. Marshall Stanton at Beartooth Bullets wrote up an experiment with a revolver in his technical manual that showed accuracy improved when he went from 0.001" over groove to 0.002" over groove, but it got worse than 0.001" over groove when he upped it to 0.003" over groove. So you've got some experimenting ahead of you. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 4, 2017, 01:17 PM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Another thing is some brass may be thick enough at the neck so some cases won't chamber with the extra wide bullet in place. Just need to keep an eye out for cartridges that want to wedge into the chamber and jam the mechanism. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 4, 2017, 05:39 PM	#7
robhic Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2016 Location: Outside of New Orleans, LA. Posts: 313	Thanks for info on larger lead bullet and sizing down. I do a "plop test" before taking bullets to range. I'm assuming too large will stick in chamber so I'll know or won't fit under the barrel hood. I'll keep an extra-sharp eye out with this new info. Might need/get a better expander than the one die in my RCBS 9mm set. We'll see.... __________________ - Robert

January 6, 2017, 05:38 PM	#12
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Now were getting down into stuff that's going to be individual to the gun and chamber. At that point all we can do is advise a lot of experimentation to see what your particular gun really likes. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 4, 2017, 10:32 AM	#4
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,635	I agree with everything Unclenick said but want to add something. You should be able to get them to work, but you might have problems seating them. Oversized bullets are more prone to having lead shave off on the mouth of the case which can cause problems chambering. With bullets too big and soft lead I would be watching out for leading in the barrel. It can happen real quickly in 9mm.

January 4, 2017, 01:54 PM	#6
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	> If the 9mm case is flared enough, do you think the .359" soft lead bullets will work in a 9mm pistol Wrong question. You need a proper expander, and not just case mouth flare. For a 0.359" bullet, the expander should open the case ID, over the length of the bullet, to 0.357-0.358". This will require at least a .38 expander, if not a custom expander. I have been shooting as-cast 0.358-0.359" lead bullets for just over 40 years without problem, but I have the right expander. All you need to do is seat a bullet and then pull the bullet and measure the bullet diameter. If it isn't still 0.359", you need a larger expander...

January 4, 2017, 10:33 PM	#8
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	I load 125 grain TC .3585 poly coated lead bullets, labeled as .38Spcl in 9mm brass. I add a step in the reloading process and expand the case mouth with a .38Spcl expander die. This combination gives excellent accuracy in my Beretta 92FS, with no leading of the bore.

January 6, 2017, 01:38 PM	#10
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	I recently read where one of the old wildcat celebrities chambered a 30 caliber barrel for 338 and fired it from a fixture to see what would happen. As the report goes the case showed no signs of over-pressure and the rifle was fired several times and then fired from the shoulder many times. There was no accuracy or velocity report as I recall but it was found to be safe. The only problem that I can see is that you might have a loaded cartridge that won't chamber, especially if the chamber is tight. I used to fire .458 diameter lead bullets through my Colt Combat Commander. They shot to a 2" group at 25 yards repeatably. Once in a while I would have to tap the back of the slide to put the gun back into battery after it cycled but it worked fine on targets. The cases had a noticeable bulge where the bullet was but worked fine most of the time. One quick note here; I am right handed and always fired the gun left handed - I was competing in Hunter's Pistol Silhouette at the time and didn't want to mess up my grip pattern for my 357. It worked for me.

January 6, 2017, 01:46 PM	#11
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	A few years ago when I started casting for the 9, I started with 0.359" and finally settled on 0.357". Anything larger would not chamber. It takes a little bit of push to get the 0.357" loaded cartridge to chamber which to me is a perfect fit.