147gr Lead in 9mm with Red Dot

[Wwrhodes91]

Anyone tried something similar to this? Just picked up some red dot and data isn't very abundant. What would you start the load at? I'm thinking somewhere around 2.8gr

[SHR970]

My Herc. guide states maximum for a 147 gr. XTP is 3.4gr. I would think that your call for 2.8 as a start is reasonable for lead and 3.2 or 3.3 would be max.

[Wwrhodes91]

Here's to hoping I didn't just load 100 single shot rounds.

[Wwrhodes91]

15 yards, 4-5 shots a second. Significantly less muzzle flip than 3.3 gr of Unique. It was very smokey, not sure if it would meet minimum power factor

[SHR970]

If that is 4-5 rounds a second then we know it passes function check just fine. Other than smoke from lube burn off and less muzzle flip, what was your general impression of the load?

You also now have a baseline to work off of so if it doesn't make minor, you can bump it up a bit and see if you can make the threshold and still have competitive groups.

[Wwrhodes91]

Originally Posted by SHR970

If that is 4-5 rounds a second then we know it passes function check just fine. Other than smoke from lube burn off and less muzzle flip, what was your general impression of the load?

You also now have a baseline to work off of so if it doesn't make minor, you can bump it up a bit and see if you can make the threshold and still have competitive groups.

Only been at this for about two months. Not really sure what I should be looking for. I like it more than the unique load though.

[Wwrhodes91]

4-5 per second is probably high too. Mor like 3-4

[Wwrhodes91]

Any reason it seems red dot isn't popular for 9mm?

[Nick_C_S]

Any reason it seems red dot isn't popular for 9mm?

For starters, it's a shotgun powder. But that by itself doesn't explain it all. I think a lot of it has to do with people's load habits. Red Dot is popular with 38 Special target wadcutter loaders. It's fairly popular with old-timers with their wheelguns (I, being a member of this group). It's an old powder, and I think it just doesn't appeal to newer semi-auto shooters.

On a side note: I'm sure it is a good performing, consistent target powder with your 147's. But 147g/RD is a combination with a steep pressure curve. If you like the way it's performing now, leave the recipe be. At some point, pressure will increase rapidly with small increases of powder. Red Dot can be rather temperamental with heavy bullets - especially in a small volume case, like 9mm.

[SHR970]

Any reason it seems red dot isn't popular for 9mm?

Part of the reason is that after ATK took over Hercules and Speer they reshot all of the loads. They used Speer Gold Dots and Unicore bullets only AND they only used a few powders...Bullseye, Unique, Blue Dot, and 2400. That happened around 2001. That list is now only slightly expanded with some newer "Pistol" powders.

Newer reloaders have been told if you don't see data from the manufacturer don't do it or 'it isn't safe'. They are also told as gospel that the older data isn't safe due to changes in the product.

Those of us that have been doing this and still have the older data know a few things.... one is that Red & Green dot as well as Herco have plenty of uses other than shotgun and have the data to back it up. And guess what???? that data is still safe to use!

Also, like Nick said, if you do work up, watch for pressure spikes. If you choose to do this, work in batches of 10 rounds stepping up .1 gr at a time. From 2.8 gr. (your base line) 2.9 to 3.2 is 50 rounds. Don't mix runs, even in the magazine. If you hit a wall, you will be disassembling less rounds this way. Back down .2 from the wall and call that MAX.

[Wwrhodes91]

Thanks for the info. I'm basically just looking for a really light recoiling load, so I won't be working it up unless I don't meet power factor.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I don't see where you mentioned the bullet type! Different shapes have different attributes such as seating depth and that affects pressure.

Just thought it worth noting:
Bullet base to Ogive....http://www.bergerbullets.com/effects...e-cbto-part-2/

By measuring your base to ogive on :same weight, same base, you can factor in the unlisted variable cast vs FMJ data to get a safer staring load.

you seem to have a working round however. Maybe a note for future reference?!

Remember Red Dot is a fast burning powder with a tendency to spike easier than slower powders. Watch for pressure signs!

[SouthGA]

I have several thousand 115gr Berrys RN plated down range thru Glock 19 with no problems using Red Dot.

Accurate at fast paced cycling with 4.1 grains

Just ordered a thousand 124gr Berrys RN plated.

Any thoughts anyone can share about Red Dot and the 124gr Berrys RN plated?

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Any thoughts anyone can share about Red Dot and the 124gr Berrys RN plated?

Berry's has standard plated and heavy plated bullets. The124 GR .38 super bullets are one example.
From Berry's:


FAQ: Load Data for Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets

Currently published load data is limited to some calibers by Accurate, Western Powders and Hodgdon. We are working with these companies to get data published for all of our bullets.

We recommend using hard cast load data or start with mid-range jacketed data. Make sure data is below 1250fps unless you are using a Thick-Plated bullet that we list a higher max velocity for like the 9mm 124gr HBRN-TP that can be shot to 1500fps in open class guns like a .38 Super. Keep in mind that since our plated bullet has the same pressure curve as a hard cast bullet, the published cast data will be very close to what you will get with our plated bullets. If you use Jacketed data with our plated bullets you can get from 5% - 8% increase in velocity using that data.

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q21-c1-...d_Bullets.aspx

[SouthGA]

Sometimes we overlook the manufacturers information.

Thank you for helping me with remembering the basics.

[Wwrhodes91]

I'm using flat points from MBC.