Magnesium... anyone with knowledge out there ???

[Magnum Wheel Man]

1st off, sorry for the long post, but I'll get to the Magnesium eventually... I promise...

I'll start off with I have an old H&R folding single shot 12 ga... it's one of few made, as a "folding" shotgun... not just a single shot...

I've made some modifications to the gun, I added a very good recoil pad, then cut the barrel & bought an adjustable poly choke, so when folded the barrel is the same length as the stock, ( still a fully legal length ) but making a very compact package, & then added a fiber optic front bead... The gun is getting dura coated right now for corrosion resistance... my goal was to make a "pocket hunter" in essence a match for those "pocket fisherman" they used to sell... my thought being I could keep it in the truck, & with an assortment of shells, I could hunt nearly anything at a moments notice...

to store the gun, I've bought a pool cue bag designed for multiple bases & tips, that fits the folded shotgun nicely, & doesn't scream gun... in fact, it's black, & 31" long, it disappears in the black cab of the truck, like my "get home / winter survival bag" I keep in there... the "cue" bag has 2 - 14" long pockets for pool cue accessories, I'm thinking about machining 2 blocks that will fit tight into the pockets, that have 12 ga sized holes drilled in them, to hold an assortment of shells... for example, one block might hold 6 steel shot, & 6 lead shot, the other block might hold 6 buck shot, & 6 slugs...

I was thinking about using Magnesium over other materials, as they could be shaved off as fire starter material... but I have a few concerns... a) I can't find the block sizes I'd need, I can find round rod, which could be machined to do what I want, albeit with more waste ( waste shaving can be kept & or sold as fire starter material... ) b) I can find odd machining blocks, that could be epoxied together to assemble the correct sized block, for a reasonable price, round rod is not excessive priced, but I can't find rectangular bar stock... c) when looking for stock, I ran across some sacrificial anodes' made out of magnesium, I'm concerned about the possibility of galvanic corrosion if the magnesium comes in contact with the brass base of the shot shell, while inside the truck, with temperature extremes from -40* to 100* F like a normal year in MN ???

if I can't find a reasonably priced source for the rectangle bar stock, I may be forced to use aluminum or even wood as a light weight block to hold the shot shells... in fact for the price, I may be best suited to buy aluminum, & a small magnesium fire starter... or using wood, as it could always be burned in an emergency... I just like the idea of using the magnesium blocks...

any other issues I've not thought about, with using magnesium??? ( or aluminum , or wood, for that matter ) anyone know a source of reasonably priced 1" -1.25" X 2" ( or close, to minimize waste ) rectangular magnesium bar stock ???

thoughts or comments in general ???

[darkroommike]

One other complication comes to mind. Magnesium shavings and dust mixed with regular iron and steel filings and shavings produce a very hot fire, sparks from a bench grinder can start a white hot "thermite" type fire. I nearly burned down my dad's shop when I was a young guy--just following his instructions--but I already knew better on an intellectual level.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

thanks for the reply... I assume you are talking about specifically during machining, once the blocks are made, they should be stabile, barring any corrosion issues...

[buckhorn_cortez]

1. Magnesium is a PITA to work with. I had a machine shop & we used to modify field production video cameras that had cast magnesium bodies - the machinists were not fond of working with it because of the fire hazard potential from the chips.

2. There is no such thing as "reasonably priced" magnesium - it's expensive compared to other metals.

3. You'd be better off with a fire starter rod + striker than attempting to start a fire by making chips from the blocks. That assumes you don't mind spending time in the cold whittling on a magnesium block instead of getting warm from a fire you've started in a much easier fashion.

You'd be better off using aluminum & lightening the final block by drilling holes in it to relieve metal that's not needed for strength. You could come up with a very light drilled out block that essentially was just a web of material to hold your shells - there's no reason that you couldn't make the blocks to hold ammunition both vertically and horizontally = more ammo in the same space.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Thanks BUCKHORN... my buddy has a fab shop & would be willing to machine it... ( that doesn't mean that I'm going to go that route yet )

( & yes I keep some "better" fire starting materials... & a mag fire starter as well... in my winter bag )

like so many things, it may be easy to talk me out of my 1st thought, just from practicality alone... & really at this point, a good clear maple may make as good a block as aluminum, & have the ability to burn if needed... it was my intention to keep things as light weight as possible... so what ever I end up using will be pretty "holey"

yet... I'm a bit eccentric, & the mag block is still an interesting option... the possibility of galvanic corrosion worries me as much as the cost does right now...

[musher]

it was my intention to keep things as light weight as possible...

Why not just drop your shells in the pockets? That would be the lightest solution.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

they'll rattle around, be subject to getting dinged up, be not as easy to grab out as if they are all lined up, & it would be nicer to have them separated, so I'm not grabbing a lead shot shell when a bunch of ducks are coming in, or accidentally grab buck shot ( not legal in MN ) if in a hurry to get a shot at a deer...

[buckhorn_cortez]

Personally, I like the block of wood idea as I like working with wood. You could use two coats of System Three S-1 Sealer & they'd be about impervious to water, oil, dirt, etc.

I've used Smith's CPES sealer and it's good as a sealer coating for an additional topcoat (paint, varnish) - but it is not waterproof. The System Three S-1 can be made to be a finish by itself if you put on two coats.

Lightly sand and steel wool the second coat and the wood looks "wetted" but unfinished as the S-1 penetrates and does not really make a surface coating with two coats. Three coats - you'd have enough build-up to make a surface coating.

[riflemen]

OK, so I think you are over thinking this...

Why not just use aluminum, its a small item, what do you think the weight difference is after you machine out the holes? Ill bet you will not save an ounce vs aluminum, its easier to machine, its cheaper, and easier to find..

I use speedy metals for my most of my aluminum stock, they have so much more than the local guys...

So if you went with a 6061 aluminum, its affordable, light, and will work well for what you are doing, 12"s of 1x2" bar stock will cost $10 and the entire piece will weigh around 2 1/4 lbs, now after you machine it there shouldnt be much material left, especially if you cross drill it and machine grooves between each shell, you can really skeletonize a piece like this since it wont need much structural strength... Ill bet I can get something like that to hold 12 shells down to around 6 ounces easily with my old bridgeport...

As far as being able to use the magnesium as a fire starter, just pack some matches and a lighter, lol or some shaved mag which you can buy anywhere, they sell it on ebay and amazon...

I personally would not go with metal at all, I would use Delrin, I can machine it just like aluminum it will be lighter, easier to machine, easier to pack, just as strong for your application, and no like metal issues with brass, no corrosion, no sharp edges, ect ect ect.. I get it from interstate plastics, I think the thickest you can get it is 1" but 1" x 2" x 12" should be around $30, its more than 6061 but less than 7075 aluminum...

Speedy metals and Interstate plastics sell to the public and have websites, I have bought from both they both ship fast and are accurate with the orders, I actually just ordered 6 sheets of Kydex from Interstate for an ammo storage safe I am building racks for...

[44 AMP]

Personally, I would go with wood, its cheap, done right can even look classy, and of course, in an emergency, can be burned.

'Nother thought, why not get one of the "bandolier" type shell belts? I've got one from Remington, it holds 25 rounds. There are many other kinds and makers, I'm sure. Something like that could be cut into sections, or maybe even used entire inside the pocket of your case. It would keep the shells from "rattling around" AND could be worn when you go afield.

[Aguila Blanca]

Many years and a couple of marriages ago, I lived near a company named American Powdered Metals. According to a friend who had grown up in the area, the company blew itself up about every five years. (I believe they no longer exist -- hardly a surprise).

Machining magnesium is not for amateurs.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

so... you guys have talked me out of magnesium... thanks I guess

I'm thinking a good clear wood might be best... especially if fully sealed... only issue I think of with the wood, could be splitting or cracking from either drying out, or if something heavy & with a pointed corner, like a heavy box, got shoved up against it, it could cause the wood to more easily break into two pieces, than aluminum, or possibly some of the plastics...

in the long run... I guess the base material weight won't matter as much, when it's drilled out for shells, compared to the weight of a dozen shot shells

[riflemen]

ONly reason I am not crazy about wood is it changes, I would want to machine this to have a tight hold on each shell, if the wood swells because of different climates it could mean not being able to get your shells out, lol. If I were you I would look into delrin, can can be coated or bought black, doesnt shrink much with big temp changes. This would only be a concern for me because I can be hunting in Texas one week and Alaska the next {I have done this}...

[buckhorn_cortez]

ONly reason I am not crazy about wood is it changes, I would want to machine this to have a tight hold on each shell, if the wood swells because of different climates it could mean not being able to get your shells out...

Exactly why I suggested epoxy encapsulating the wood with System Three S-1. Believe me the wood won't swell, shrink, crack etc. from humidity or moisture and drying out if it's epoxy encapsulated. The epoxy penetrates the wood as it's very thin and made to penetrate.

The epoxy fills in the voids in the wood and surrounds the wood fibers so that they cannot react to moisture. I've done a number of outdoor projects this way and finished them with Interlux Topside Two Part Polyurethane paint.

Epoxy is susceptible to break-down if exposed for long periods of time to UV wavelength light (sunlight for long periods) which is why I then painted the wood with a high-quality polyurethane boat paint.

However, I do agree with the assessment that by the time you bore out a block of aluminum - it's really not going to weigh very much.

[riflemen]

I'm going to have to check that epoxy out, I have replaced the cupholder trim on my boat twice now because it splits and swells with the humid wet air...

[Magnum Wheel Man]

looking through everything today, & rationalizing everything, I'm still wrestling between wood & plastic... the Delrin is not much cheaper than magnesium, but would be much more durable... but not something that could be used to really start a fire like a dried & sealed holey piece of wood, if needed, if stranded...

along the same line of thought, I may do 2 blocks per pocket... if going with the plastic, it might be easier to mark the blocks as per what is in each, if I used white, instead of "tactical" black... thinking it might be easier to pop out one block of 6 shells of the type needed that day, than have one longer block, that holds ammo that may not be legal for use that day ( requiring me to put loose shells in a clothes pocket ) for example, if duck hunting, having lead shot with me, which is fine for upland game birds, would not be legal to have on my person while hunting water foul... if using wood, & sealing it well, I could burn "Lead Shot" into the top of one "half block", & "Steel Shot" into the other, before sealing, & if finished nice, & corners radiused & the lettering burned in nice, they could look pretty nice, be durable & practical, & reasonably priced to make ( where I could use one to get a fire going, without having lost something that's not easily replaced )

[mete]

When I was in college the lightest commercial alloy was a magnesium/lithium alloy. A professor was working with that and when he got a shipment he picked it up to take to the lab. People were shocked to see him carry a batch of bars in one hand 'wow that guy is strong ' !! we never told them it was such a light alloy not steel !
Beretta had a very light shotgun of aluminum as I remember meant for a hunt of lots of walking with little shooting , less than 6 lbs .

[riflemen]

maybe just grab some of these, then you can hang spares on your belt too, I have a few somewhere and they do what they are supposed to, I stopped using them for gun mounted since I like the sheath on the back of my stock anyway...
http://www.amazon.com/MAKERSHOT-Gaug...ds=12ga+holder

also I dont remember what the other type were called but your shells slide into them it was like slide shot or slidesafe, something like that...

[Magnum Wheel Man]

hmmm... thanks for the link... those are a little short for the pocket size, but perhaps I can find another storage box to use up the extra space...

[Slopemeno]

Machine it out of delrin.

[James K]

I am with the folks who suggest wood. Shaved, it would be dry and could also be used as a fire starter, though not like magnesium. It would still be light weight and would give good support for the shells. Plastic will burn, but most plastics are hard to light, even if shaved.

Find a bit of room for a couple of BIC lighters and you should be able to start a fire anytime.

Jim

[Skans]

Am I the only one who is not making any connection at all between "shotgun shell holder" and "fire starter"?

How about you just use the box 12 gauge shells are sold in; remove one or two and insert a $2 magnesium fire starter that you can buy from Harbor Freight?

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Ok... I'm a little bit of a prepper... not the over the top & off the deep end type of prepper, more of an emergency prepper... if one were trapped in a blizzard, swamped in a flash flood, or other condition that may cause you to need to spend the night ( or longer ) in the truck, or the woods, or ??? I keep a "stuff" bag in the truck, & this shotgun will be an addition to the "get home" bag... if everything were wet, I'm thinking about the ability to start a fire, it could be to keep warm, or cook the instant soups, or heat food, or boil water, cook some small game you may have shot or ???

main purpose would be to hold shot shells, but everything should be good for more than just one use, if it's going to be stashed in the truck for extended periods...

my original thought was the magnesium fire starters... if the shell holders we made of magnesium, you could start many fires on wet wood, with the high heat given off from burning magnesium shavings...

the shot shell box does not fit into the 2 pockets on the bag that holds the folding shotgun

[Mavrick79]

I have to agree with the guys that suggested delrin for the same reasons they listed.

[Snyper]

I'd make the shell holder from some cheap plastic, and throw a few BIC lighters in for fires

You don't need a fancy fire starter when you have lighters