Speer 300 gr Uni-Core .44 Cal (0.429") Bullets

[Wyoredman]

Reading and commenting on a thread in the revolver forum got me thinking about some loads I have made in the past. I used the Speer 300gr Uni-Core .44 cal bullet.

Curiosity led me to the Speer web page. The Uni-Core isn't listed anymore, nore do they make a 300gr bullet!

I like these big bullets for Grizz protection in the elk woods!

Do any of you experts ever recall using the 300 gr Uni-Core in your revolvers? Mine is a S&W 629 classic, and it really shoots well with them. Though I don't shoot many!

If the Uni-Core isn't available anymore, are there any other 300 gr jacketed bullets I could substitute?

Thanks.

[buck460XVR]

Sierra makes a .429 dia. 300 gr JSP . They claim it is "Designed for hunting, specifically for large bears" .

Here's a link..... .429 300gr JSP

[Wyoredman]

Thanks a lot. Have you used these? I do like Sierra rifle bullets, so I will givem' a try...if I can find 'em!

[Wyoredman]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I looked up my load last night. Here it is for anyone wanting a real accurate sledge hammer for bear country. I shoot it in my S&W 629 Classic 5 1/2".

Speer Uni-Core 300gr JFP
21.5gr W296
CCI 350 primers
WW case
COAL 1.665"
Measured Velocity = 1210 fps

This is one mean .44 load for bear country!

[SL1]

Your load is 0.5 grain over max for the standard-length cartridge in the data published in Speer Manual #14 (under rifle cartridges).

But, that bullet has two canelures. If you seat the bullet out and crimp in the bottom canelure, then you can go 1.0 grains over your load and still be at book max (under handgun cartridges in the same manual). Of course, the longer cartridge may not fit the cylinder of some revolvers. But, it works fine in a Ruger Redhawk.

SL1

[Wyoredman]

SL1,

Actually, the load is 1.0 grains under the max listed in the Speer load data supplied with the actual bullets.

In the same document, Speer recommends the bullet be crimped in the rear groove (canelure), and Speer also gives a COAL for handguns crimped in this groove at 1.665".

There is a complete different set of data supplied with the bullets for rifle loads. They also suggest using the forward canelure for rifle loads.

I will try and scan the data sheet and post it here.

[reloader28]

I personally dont know anyone that goes by a "book" max. Its just a reference.
Everyone works up to the potential of their gun.

Almost every pistol or rifle I've ever been around maxes out over the published max loads, but you need to pay attention to what your doing.

[newfrontier45]

I wouldn't depend on any jacketed bullet for bear protection. A good 300gr LBT from Cast Performance, Beartooth, Leadheads, Oregon Trail, etc. is a much better option. I'd probably go a little heavier to 320-330gr.

[SL1]

Wyoredman, If you reread my post, I think you will realize that we are saying the same thing.

With respect to using "jacketed" bullets for bear protection: the real issue is how soft the nose is. If it is too soft, it can deform when it hits a bear's skull at an angle, and essentially just slide along the bone under the skin, not mortally wounding the bear. There is an account of a ranger doing that with the first 5 shots from a .357 Magnum (issued weapon) and finally dropping the bear with the 6th shot from under the bear's head. (The ranger got pretty messed-up by the bear in the process of getting to that position.)

A harder bullet with a sharp meplat edge is more likely to "bite" and punch through the bone. A hard lead bullet can do that. The harder brass "Grizzly Punch" bullets can probably do it better when bone is involved. But, they may not be loadable to as high velocity as lead, so may not have as much punch for body hits.

SL1

[Pond, James Pond]

I wouldn't depend on any jacketed bullet for bear protection. A good 300gr LBT from Cast Performance, Beartooth, Leadheads, Oregon Trail, etc. is a much better option. I'd probably go a little heavier to 320-330gr.

I followed the discussion going on in the 460S&W vs.... thread and have been reading the linked article by J. Linebaugh. I notice that he stated that the ideal bullet weights for .44 Mag were anything from the 240gr-300gr, 320 at a push. Would your suggested 330gr not now be venturing into that range of diminishing returns for increasing pressure he advised avoiding?

I ask this because I have also been trying to devise a load against anything up to bear. At present I have a hot 240gr load, using a jacketed bullet, albeit with a sharp meplat edge. I recently asked which bullet to choose in a thread wyoredman answered linking this discussion. I personally opted for a 275gr Cast Performance LFN bullet, on account of running a 4.2" barrel... I hope to get 1200fps out of it, or there abouts.

N.B. I refer to my choice of bullet to explain my interest in the quoted comment above, not to hijack this thread. My own thread is still open if anyone wants to review that discussion.

[mavracer]

I ask this because I have also been trying to devise a load against anything up to bear. At present I have a hot 240gr load, using a jacketed bullet, albeit with a sharp meplat edge. I recently asked which bullet to choose in a thread wyoredman answered linking this discussion. I personally opted for a 275gr Cast Performance LFN bullet, on account of running a 4.2" barrel... I hope to get 1200fps out of it, or there abouts.

Hunting bear and defending one's self from bear are much different prospects.
The requirements are ultimately different, for defense you don't have the luxury of allowing the bear time to bleed out. If you're serious about bear defense you need to focus on having enough penatration to reach the brain and the fortitude to make that shot.
A 275gr hard cast at 1100-1200 is more than enough to reach a bear's brainpan if you can make the shot.

Wyoredman: Speer still lists this http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballist...il.aspx?id=199

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by mavracer:

A 275gr hard cast at 1100-1200 is more than enough to reach a bear's brainpan if you can make the shot.

"If you can make the shot". There's the key. The disadvantage to shooting heavy for caliber hard recoiling loads for most folks is the inability to make fast accurate follow up shots. This is especially true when under the extreme stress of being charged by a bear. To stop a charging bear, you need to hit the CNS.....a very small target, especially on a moving animal. So you need accuracy. You also need penetration. This is to penetrate the skull to the brain or to make it completely thru the animals body to it's spine. This takes a bullet that is designed not to expand and dump it's energy. Any hard cast, solid copper or jacketed bullet designed for this will work. Sierra boast that this what their bullet is designed for. If it shot well for me outta my guns, I would not hesitate to use it. I have not used it because the only bears we have are blackies and my standard 240 gr JSPs work well enough against them. Since they are not suggested for use on lighter skinned animals like deer because of the lack of expansion, I've had no reason to go there either.

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by mavracer

Speer still lists this http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballist...il.aspx?id=199

I believe that 300 grainer is recommended for plinkin'/target shooting. Not even suggested for hunting deer. Probably too thin of jacket for bear defense in grizzly country.

[newfrontier45]

I notice that he stated that the ideal bullet weights for .44 Mag were anything from the 240gr-300gr, 320 at a push. Would your suggested 330gr not now be venturing into that range of diminishing returns for increasing pressure he advised avoiding?

We must keep in mind that the Linebaugh article is almost 30yrs old. Quite a bit has changed since then and we must also remember, with all due respect to John, he makes his money building .45's, .475's and .500's, not .44's.

I'm not talking about increasing pressure. A 330gr can be pushed to 1350fps and a Beartooth 355gr can reach 1250fps and all do so at standard pressures. The 355gr has a comparable sectional density to the vaunted 430gr .475 at 1350fps. I don't think you need that much bullet for bear, which is why I suggested a 320-330gr. A 300gr would probably do the job but you're better off with too much than too little.

I believe that 300 grainer is recommended for plinkin'/target shooting. Not even suggested for hunting deer. Probably too thin of jacket for bear defense in grizzly country.

Never heard of a 300gr "plinker". That particular bullet is an excellent game bullet and is of bonded core design. Buffalo Bore loads this bullet in their .44Mag ammo and has this to say:

"Item 4B (300gr. JFN) is designed for super deep penetration at revolver speeds, but will mushroom and penetrate less deeply at rifle speeds. At handgun speeds you can expect a solid 3 feet of penetration in muscle and bone and at rifle speeds expect roughly 2 feet of penetration in muscle and bone. At handgun velocities, this bullet will act just like item 4A in living tissue. The greater velocities generated by the longer barrel of the rifle will cause the bullet to mushroom and that large mushroom will make a much bigger diameter hole in tissue, but that frontal area on the mushroomed bullet will cut down the depth of penetration."

The 4A he references is a 305gr LBT.

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted by newfrontier45

Never heard of a 300gr "plinker". That particular bullet is an excellent game bullet and is of bonded core design. Buffalo Bore loads this bullet in their .44Mag ammo and has this to say:

Only going by what Speer's website shows. If you follow mavracer's link and look under the sub-title "usage" you see #3 listed. The legend tells us that means "plinker/target". In the product details it also tells us it is a jacketed bullet as opposed to what they used to call their "uni-core". This is the bullet I believe Wyoredman states is discontinued.....even tho according to my manuals they both have the same product code.....an yes, the old 0.429'' 300 gr "uni-core" was touted as their deep penetration round for .44 mag. Whether they have really changed the bullet, changed the designation or are providing us with incorrect information on their website is beyond me. I am only relating what the Speer website claims. Why they would not promote the bullet still as a viable dangerous game hunting round as opposed to the Target/Plinker is beyond me, if in fact it is still the same bullet. A Target/Plinker bullet to me, is designed for low velocity with thin jackets resulting in rapid expansion for reduced ricochets. Quite the opposite as a bullet designed for dangerous game. I do know I have some Speer .45 cal bullets that once were touted as hunting rounds that now have the words "Target/Plinker" on the label. Thus....I only use them for range fodder now. All this seem to come about at the same time they changed the name of their Gold Dot handgun caliber hunting bullets to "Deep Curls". Maybe a e-mail to Speer is in order.

[Wyoredman]

Very Interesting! Is it the same bullet? An email to Speer is sent!

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted by newfrontier45:

Never heard of a 300gr "plinker".

Can't say that anymore..........