Help me buy a new auto.

Rant Casey · July 28, 2008, 02:49 AM

Alright, the full auto bug has bitten me again. I was just about ready for bed and decided to browse subguns and now I've decided the mac 10 and colt sp1which i should be able to pick up in the next month need some fast firing company being stuck in a safe alone with a bunch of semi autos. In all honesty, I don't know what I want, I just know I want something new. Your job? Help me choose something. Ammo prices are not a concern in the sense that I don't care if it's the 5.56/7.62 range, just please no one respond with Ma Deuce, I'm not a rich man and not looking to spend 10k on ammo. I'm sort of leaning towards a new SMG, the Mac 10 is nice, but i'd like a higher quality smg. I'm leaning towards something of the mp5 variety, but which one? There's so much to choose from. Suggestions?

aroundlsu · July 28, 2008, 10:12 AM

How about a M50 Reising? Easy to get and inexpensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Reising_submachine_gun

VUPDblue · July 28, 2008, 11:03 AM

Why not an UZI? Accurate, reliable, fun to shoot. What's not to like? Their prices are not unmanageable either, and 9mm is still cheap enough to have fun with.

David Hineline · July 28, 2008, 12:22 PM

If I could only have two guns, it would be the M16 and UZI SMG.

You are really looking at duplication the Lage uppers for the M10 will make that gun do anything any other subgun will do.

The UZI SMG 22lr kit is the most reliable conversion kit I have ever shot.

The AM180 is a great gun but loading 265rnds of 22lr ammo into a drum is a project.

MP5s don't do much for me so the only one that makes sense is the MP5K or PDW with the folding stock and detatchable silencer. The MP5 will get you cool gun comments from the peanut gallery more than any other gun if other peoples opinion matters to you.

If I could have one SMG in a 50yd alley fight it would be a 1928 Tommy gun as long as I did not have to carry it far.

9mm is the cheap shooter. Look to the BRP configurations they did to the Stemple they are quality and prices nothing compared to originals.

hknut · July 29, 2008, 12:29 AM

Hk Mp5k

Johnny Guest · July 29, 2008, 10:12 AM

It pretty much boils down to what is available at the moment you're ready to commit the money and the necessary effort.

Most - -? Well, a great MANY individuals without wide experience in full auto ownership and/or shooting, will suggest you get whatever they HAVE shot. Others will urge the one with which they've had the most success on the video games.

You wisely ruled out the M2 Cal .50 and stated you reasons. Frankly, I'll be surprised if there aren't grinnin' suggestions

that you get a GE mini-Gatling or a GAU-8 30mm with an A10 to carry it.

Talk about a high-upkeep item! Not to mention the fact that there are few or ZERO transferable examples out there.

I wouldn't take for my '28 Thompson, for various reasons. It has a traditional aura, a mystique, if you will. It is excellent for display or even re-enactments. With minor variations in accessories and trim, it'll serve in the military area, as a gangster gun, as an old-fashioned police piece, and even as part of Ireland's history. (Without a close look, most can't tell the difference between a -28 and a 1921 "Irish sword.")

It is FUN to shoot, and while ammo prices are steadily rising, .45 ACP is readily available and easy to hand load. While the prices just keep on climbing, there are a lot of transferable examples that can be had by those willing to pay the price. There are tons of reasonably priced magazines and parts, and a wide array of "traditional" accessories available

The fact remains, though, the TSMG is a large, heavy piece and is no way "state of the art" ordnance.

As to other types, the more rare and exotic the gun, the higher the "cool factor," and the oooh and aahs at the range are abundant. Problem is, all the parts and accessories, even magazines, are often scarce and high priced.

For just occasional blasting off a mag or two at a hospitable range, the Uzi and MAC series are still FAIRLY accessible prices, with reasonably priced ammo. Once one gets an M16, it can be altered to different configurations and wildly accessorized.

Again, you must make your own determination of what you want to do with the gun, and how much you can send. I realize this reply is NOT definitive help, but there is almost no "best" machinegun for all purposes. Member David Hineline's post contains a lot of good information, and could well serve as a short guide on this topic.

Good luck to you.
Johnny

.

VUPDblue · July 29, 2008, 01:18 PM

I also think that DavidHeinline's post is accurate. I have the M16 and my next (and probably last) auto will be an UZI. UZI parts are cheap, UZI mags are cheap, 9mm ammo is cheap, the thing is built like a tank and is very enjoyable. You really can't go wrong with one if you're looking for a shooter.

Also FWIW, there are at least a couple transferable M134 GE Miniguns. The one from the movie Predator has changed hands several times, once just a year or so ago.

Catchabullet · July 29, 2008, 01:24 PM

Mp5 navy.. i want one sooo bad... dead on acc.

Storage_man · July 29, 2008, 01:35 PM

How about a belt fed weapon ? Yes I know they are expensive and yes parts are hard to come by and yes ammo costs keep rising, But you only live once.

Juhosaphat · July 29, 2008, 03:21 PM

Saiga 12 converted for fully automatic fire

mtdew_ · July 29, 2008, 07:44 PM

how much do you want to spend?

As far as my opnion, Hineline allready said it "M16 and UZI SMG"

Though w/ the lage availible i'd group the M10 & M11/nine in with the UZI.

Rant Casey · July 30, 2008, 11:56 AM

m16 - Already have an auto sp1 pre 86 conversion, although I'm very familiar with the platform in general and love shooting them. It is def another posibility to add another m16 to my collection.

Mac 10- Have one, love shooting it. Ammo is cheap and it is quite reliable for the price, i'd just prefer something a little more refined. Maybe the uzi will fit the bill.

Saiga 12 - Would LOVE to legally convert my sbs saiga, but unfortunetly I can't legally do so so it's forever to be semi auto. I don't believe there are any saiga 12s on the registry but who knows, I could be wrong.

Belt fed - It would be a joy to own an m60 but I absolutely can't justify the cost of one, especially since I don't own auto weapons for defense, I use them for tearing up cans and bottles at the range, it's a lot of money for a "toy". Now if a minimi or an m249 popped up somehow on the registry which I don't believe there are any, i'd buy one if it were "cheaper".

Thompsons - That's really a consideration, I'm not looking for the most modern weapon out there, I'm not in war so the nostalgia alone of the tsmg is almost worth the price tag. The price is a little high though last I looked (20 grand).

Price- I'm looking to spend no more than 15k, so an m16 is not out of the question. The uzi is looking more and more appealing when you look at my price point, especially since I could own two uzis and a mac 11 and still be within my price range.

Another thing i've considered is the American 180 just for the high capacity of it and cheap ammo. I've never seen a civilian transferable one though. I just need to get off my but and open a shop and get my sot.

VUPDblue · July 30, 2008, 06:42 PM

There are probably hundreds of AM180's on the registry. They go for somewhere in the $8k range. Heck, for your budget you could probably get an AM180 AND an UZI!

ETA: Here ya go! http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...f=118&t=526958

Chipperman · July 30, 2008, 06:47 PM

One big benefit of the MP5 is that if it is a sear gun, you can move it to other hosts.

That way you can have an MP5, HK33/93, G3 with only two Tax Stamps (sear and SBR). If you want to have more SBRs, then you can go HK53, HK51, etc. You still legally only have one machine gun, and the expense of the hosts is much less, especially if you get Vector clones.

bgrayd · August 1, 2008, 09:33 PM

This one is a No-Brainer..

Your 1st choice should be the M16...

If you pull two pins and swap uppers, you can move from full auto 5.56 to 9mm to 22 cal to 7.62x39 to 458 socom to ....

So, for the cost of ONE registered machine gun, and a few uppers that run from $400 to $1500 each(you pick your favorite calibers and options), you have more options than with any other gun. Any caliber, any length upper... just too much fun.

I know the HK's can swap the lowers, but have you priced the host guns? And if you want them to be short barreled, there's another $200 per host gun.

Chipperman · August 2, 2008, 01:26 PM

Well, there's no question that the M16 is the MOST versatile.

I had decided before I got into the NFA game that if I could get two and never any others, it would be an MP5 sear gun and an M16. That's exactly what I got.

The HK sear is very versatile also, but is more expensive than the M16 platform to do it. But nothing in the NFA world is cheap. It's all relative expense.

If you start shooting .308 or other big calibers on full-auto, it does not take long to exceed the expense of the gun itself-- especially with today's crazy ammo prices.

LiquidTension7 · August 6, 2008, 11:38 PM

I had an Uzi. Now I have a Max-11. I prefer the Max. Get on the Max-10 list, and for under a grand you basically have a brand new, high quality subgun. Then you really can spend 10k on ammo

www.max-11.com

Rant Casey · August 9, 2008, 08:28 PM

I already have a mac with a slow fire conversion.

I'm really torn between an uzi and an mp5.

GeorgeF · August 10, 2008, 09:28 AM

Think long term. Uzi parts are plentiful and cheap. MP5 parts are out there too but not as cheap. Ditto for the magazines.

If you get a full auto, I highly recommend getting lots of spares. At least 10 magazines, and one or two sets of spare parts for the weapon. This might be overkill for a UZI as they are built like tanks, but better safe than sorry. Barrels are also super cheap for Uzi's, unlike a lot of other weapons.

If I had the funds, I would pick up a Uzi in a heartbeat along with a .22 conversion kit.

Get a spare barrel and thread it for a silencer and have even more fun!

Stagger Lee · August 10, 2008, 10:23 AM

Ditto on the Uzi. Half the price of an MP-5 and it'll last a lot longer due to it's overbuilt construction.

2ndchance · August 10, 2008, 07:03 PM

Just for giggles... this would be a nice one to add to anyone's inventory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abTGAP7tG0Y

Rant Casey · August 22, 2008, 04:56 PM

VUPDblue and everyone else, thanks for your help. I ended up with an uzi. Next up? MP5.

Rant Casey · August 22, 2008, 04:57 PM

BTW, i've seen videos of people with drums for an uzi, but i've yet to find one. Anyone want to point me in the right direction?

VUPDblue · August 26, 2008, 10:17 AM

Congrats on your purchase! I also have to say that your update is worthless without pics

Uzi 75rnd Drum

The Rage · September 20, 2008, 07:52 PM

You can build a m-11 9mm with a slow fire upper and a lot of other components that will compete against any MP5 for a lot less money. Once you slow down the ROF to 700-900 it is an accurate as you can get. You can weld two mags together or buy them already welded and have 50 rounds without a drum.
www.usmachinegun.com
FFL/SOT

July 28, 2008, 02:49 AM	#1
Rant Casey Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 441	Help me buy a new auto. Alright, the full auto bug has bitten me again. I was just about ready for bed and decided to browse subguns and now I've decided the mac 10 and colt sp1which i should be able to pick up in the next month need some fast firing company being stuck in a safe alone with a bunch of semi autos. In all honesty, I don't know what I want, I just know I want something new. Your job? Help me choose something. Ammo prices are not a concern in the sense that I don't care if it's the 5.56/7.62 range, just please no one respond with Ma Deuce, I'm not a rich man and not looking to spend 10k on ammo. I'm sort of leaning towards a new SMG, the Mac 10 is nice, but i'd like a higher quality smg. I'm leaning towards something of the mp5 variety, but which one? There's so much to choose from. Suggestions?

July 28, 2008, 11:03 AM	#3
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	Why not an UZI? Accurate, reliable, fun to shoot. What's not to like? Their prices are not unmanageable either, and 9mm is still cheap enough to have fun with. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

July 28, 2008, 12:22 PM	#4
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	If I could only have two guns If I could only have two guns, it would be the M16 and UZI SMG. You are really looking at duplication the Lage uppers for the M10 will make that gun do anything any other subgun will do. The UZI SMG 22lr kit is the most reliable conversion kit I have ever shot. The AM180 is a great gun but loading 265rnds of 22lr ammo into a drum is a project. MP5s don't do much for me so the only one that makes sense is the MP5K or PDW with the folding stock and detatchable silencer. The MP5 will get you cool gun comments from the peanut gallery more than any other gun if other peoples opinion matters to you. If I could have one SMG in a 50yd alley fight it would be a 1928 Tommy gun as long as I did not have to carry it far. 9mm is the cheap shooter. Look to the BRP configurations they did to the Stemple they are quality and prices nothing compared to originals.

July 29, 2008, 12:29 AM	#5
hknut Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2005 Location: Olympia, Wa. Posts: 535	Hk Mp5k __________________ "Gun control is like trying to reduce Drunk Driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars" Walk softly and carry a big SIG.

July 29, 2008, 10:12 AM	#6
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	I wish I could furnish some definitive help, but - - - It pretty much boils down to what is available at the moment you're ready to commit the money and the necessary effort. Most - -? Well, a great MANY individuals without wide experience in full auto ownership and/or shooting, will suggest you get whatever they HAVE shot. Others will urge the one with which they've had the most success on the video games. You wisely ruled out the M2 Cal .50 and stated you reasons. Frankly, I'll be surprised if there aren't grinnin' suggestions that you get a GE mini-Gatling or a GAU-8 30mm with an A10 to carry it. Talk about a high-upkeep item! Not to mention the fact that there are few or ZERO transferable examples out there. I wouldn't take for my '28 Thompson, for various reasons. It has a traditional aura, a mystique, if you will. It is excellent for display or even re-enactments. With minor variations in accessories and trim, it'll serve in the military area, as a gangster gun, as an old-fashioned police piece, and even as part of Ireland's history. (Without a close look, most can't tell the difference between a -28 and a 1921 "Irish sword.") It is FUN to shoot, and while ammo prices are steadily rising, .45 ACP is readily available and easy to hand load. While the prices just keep on climbing, there are a lot of transferable examples that can be had by those willing to pay the price. There are tons of reasonably priced magazines and parts, and a wide array of "traditional" accessories available The fact remains, though, the TSMG is a large, heavy piece and is no way "state of the art" ordnance. As to other types, the more rare and exotic the gun, the higher the "cool factor," and the oooh and aahs at the range are abundant. Problem is, all the parts and accessories, even magazines, are often scarce and high priced. For just occasional blasting off a mag or two at a hospitable range, the Uzi and MAC series are still FAIRLY accessible prices, with reasonably priced ammo. Once one gets an M16, it can be altered to different configurations and wildly accessorized. Again, you must make your own determination of what you want to do with the gun, and how much you can send. I realize this reply is NOT definitive help, but there is almost no "best" machinegun for all purposes. Member David Hineline's post contains a lot of good information, and could well serve as a short guide on this topic. Good luck to you. Johnny .

July 28, 2008, 10:12 AM	#2
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	How about a M50 Reising? Easy to get and inexpensive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Reising_submachine_gun

July 29, 2008, 01:18 PM	#7
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	I also think that DavidHeinline's post is accurate. I have the M16 and my next (and probably last) auto will be an UZI. UZI parts are cheap, UZI mags are cheap, 9mm ammo is cheap, the thing is built like a tank and is very enjoyable. You really can't go wrong with one if you're looking for a shooter. Also FWIW, there are at least a couple transferable M134 GE Miniguns. The one from the movie Predator has changed hands several times, once just a year or so ago. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

July 29, 2008, 01:24 PM	#8
Catchabullet Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 317	Mp5 navy.. i want one sooo bad... dead on acc. __________________ I may be a Scientist but....I never said I was smart.

July 29, 2008, 01:35 PM	#9
Storage_man Member Join Date: June 5, 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 20	How about a belt fed weapon ? Yes I know they are expensive and yes parts are hard to come by and yes ammo costs keep rising, But you only live once. __________________ Storage_man BeltFeds and F/A Weapons

July 29, 2008, 03:21 PM	#10
Juhosaphat Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2008 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 174	Saiga 12 converted for fully automatic fire __________________ What doesn't kill you will only make you stronger. Learn from your mistakes and you shall prevail equally.

July 29, 2008, 07:44 PM	#11
mtdew_ Junior Member Join Date: July 24, 2008 Posts: 4	how much do you want to spend? As far as my opnion, Hineline allready said it "M16 and UZI SMG" Though w/ the lage availible i'd group the M10 & M11/nine in with the UZI.

July 30, 2008, 11:56 AM	#12
Rant Casey Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 441	m16 - Already have an auto sp1 pre 86 conversion, although I'm very familiar with the platform in general and love shooting them. It is def another posibility to add another m16 to my collection. Mac 10- Have one, love shooting it. Ammo is cheap and it is quite reliable for the price, i'd just prefer something a little more refined. Maybe the uzi will fit the bill. Saiga 12 - Would LOVE to legally convert my sbs saiga, but unfortunetly I can't legally do so so it's forever to be semi auto. I don't believe there are any saiga 12s on the registry but who knows, I could be wrong. Belt fed - It would be a joy to own an m60 but I absolutely can't justify the cost of one, especially since I don't own auto weapons for defense, I use them for tearing up cans and bottles at the range, it's a lot of money for a "toy". Now if a minimi or an m249 popped up somehow on the registry which I don't believe there are any, i'd buy one if it were "cheaper". Thompsons - That's really a consideration, I'm not looking for the most modern weapon out there, I'm not in war so the nostalgia alone of the tsmg is almost worth the price tag. The price is a little high though last I looked (20 grand). Price- I'm looking to spend no more than 15k, so an m16 is not out of the question. The uzi is looking more and more appealing when you look at my price point, especially since I could own two uzis and a mac 11 and still be within my price range. Another thing i've considered is the American 180 just for the high capacity of it and cheap ammo. I've never seen a civilian transferable one though. I just need to get off my but and open a shop and get my sot.

July 30, 2008, 06:42 PM	#13
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	There are probably hundreds of AM180's on the registry. They go for somewhere in the $8k range. Heck, for your budget you could probably get an AM180 AND an UZI! ETA: Here ya go! http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...f=118&t=526958 __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

July 30, 2008, 06:47 PM	#14
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	One big benefit of the MP5 is that if it is a sear gun, you can move it to other hosts. That way you can have an MP5, HK33/93, G3 with only two Tax Stamps (sear and SBR). If you want to have more SBRs, then you can go HK53, HK51, etc. You still legally only have one machine gun, and the expense of the hosts is much less, especially if you get Vector clones.

August 1, 2008, 09:33 PM	#15
bgrayd Junior Member Join Date: July 27, 2008 Posts: 2	well, This one is a No-Brainer.. Your 1st choice should be the M16... If you pull two pins and swap uppers, you can move from full auto 5.56 to 9mm to 22 cal to 7.62x39 to 458 socom to .... So, for the cost of ONE registered machine gun, and a few uppers that run from $400 to $1500 each(you pick your favorite calibers and options), you have more options than with any other gun. Any caliber, any length upper... just too much fun. I know the HK's can swap the lowers, but have you priced the host guns? And if you want them to be short barreled, there's another $200 per host gun.

August 2, 2008, 01:26 PM	#16
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	Well, there's no question that the M16 is the MOST versatile. I had decided before I got into the NFA game that if I could get two and never any others, it would be an MP5 sear gun and an M16. That's exactly what I got. The HK sear is very versatile also, but is more expensive than the M16 platform to do it. But nothing in the NFA world is cheap. It's all relative expense. If you start shooting .308 or other big calibers on full-auto, it does not take long to exceed the expense of the gun itself-- especially with today's crazy ammo prices.

August 6, 2008, 11:38 PM	#17
LiquidTension7 Member Join Date: December 4, 2002 Location: SC Posts: 54	I had an Uzi. Now I have a Max-11. I prefer the Max. Get on the Max-10 list, and for under a grand you basically have a brand new, high quality subgun. Then you really can spend 10k on ammo www.max-11.com __________________ Questions are more true than answers; this is the beginning of wisdom.

August 9, 2008, 08:28 PM	#18
Rant Casey Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 441	I already have a mac with a slow fire conversion. I'm really torn between an uzi and an mp5.

August 10, 2008, 09:28 AM	#19
GeorgeF Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2004 Posts: 572	Think long term. Uzi parts are plentiful and cheap. MP5 parts are out there too but not as cheap. Ditto for the magazines. If you get a full auto, I highly recommend getting lots of spares. At least 10 magazines, and one or two sets of spare parts for the weapon. This might be overkill for a UZI as they are built like tanks, but better safe than sorry. Barrels are also super cheap for Uzi's, unlike a lot of other weapons. If I had the funds, I would pick up a Uzi in a heartbeat along with a .22 conversion kit. Get a spare barrel and thread it for a silencer and have even more fun!

August 10, 2008, 10:23 AM	#20
Stagger Lee Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2007 Posts: 342	Ditto on the Uzi. Half the price of an MP-5 and it'll last a lot longer due to it's overbuilt construction.

August 10, 2008, 07:03 PM	#21
2ndchance Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2008 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 180	Just for giggles... this would be a nice one to add to anyone's inventory. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abTGAP7tG0Y

August 22, 2008, 04:56 PM	#22
Rant Casey Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 441	VUPDblue and everyone else, thanks for your help. I ended up with an uzi. Next up? MP5.

August 22, 2008, 04:57 PM	#23
Rant Casey Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 441	BTW, i've seen videos of people with drums for an uzi, but i've yet to find one. Anyone want to point me in the right direction?

August 26, 2008, 10:17 AM	#24
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	Congrats on your purchase! I also have to say that your update is worthless without pics Uzi 75rnd Drum __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

September 20, 2008, 07:52 PM	#25
The Rage Junior Member Join Date: September 20, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 13	smg purchase You can build a m-11 9mm with a slow fire upper and a lot of other components that will compete against any MP5 for a lot less money. Once you slow down the ROF to 700-900 it is an accurate as you can get. You can weld two mags together or buy them already welded and have 50 rounds without a drum. www.usmachinegun.com FFL/SOT