Barrel length legality?

s4s4u · July 4, 2013, 08:29 PM

I know that a shotgun must have a barrel length of at least 18" to be legal, but is it illegal to posess a shotgun barrel shorter than 18" if it is not assembled as a shotgun?

**JohnKSa** · July 4, 2013, 08:38 PM

There's no issue as long as you don't have a shotgun that it will fit.

I wouldn't risk it if I also owned a shotgun that went with the barrel.

Jim Watson · July 4, 2013, 09:47 PM

If you have an underlength barrel and a receiver that it would fit, that is known as "constructive possession" and means that you are in violation because the feds assume that if you COULD assemble a sawed off shotgun that you DID assemble a sawed off shotgun.

BigD_in_FL · July 4, 2013, 10:03 PM

IF you live in Canada, no issue....IF you have applied for a NFA tax stamp, no problem

If you have someone's BUBBA'D barrel, dispose of promptly

PetahW · July 6, 2013, 03:57 AM

.

If you're an LEO, N.P., either..............

.

Dreaming100Straight · July 6, 2013, 11:56 AM

Quote:

IF you have applied for a NFA tax stamp, no problem

Are you sure about this, BigD? I never thought about it, but I just gave the fed law a quick read and while it says it is a violation of fed law not to comply with that act, it doesn't say it is not a violation of state law. Maybe this is covered by decisional law.

ZVP · July 6, 2013, 04:07 PM

Cut to 19" that way you won;t get hassled it's an inch over tht limit and it patterns nice!
Mine puts 9 balls into9" @ 12 rt.
That's torso width...
BPDave

BigD_in_FL · July 6, 2013, 06:54 PM

Dreamin- a barrel less than 18"requires a tax stamp here in the US

ClydeFrog · July 6, 2013, 09:22 PM

I'm not a ATF Special Agent or have a JD but I was a bit confused by a gun show table display that had a few Remington pump & auto shotguns with wood stocks that were custom pistol grips. The shotgun barrels looked short too(16-18").
I asked the clerk(a older guy; 55-65) if they were AOW(Any Other Weapon) classified or if they needed tax stamps. The guy said; "No, these are considered & sold as pistols."

I'm not sure how'd you safely fire 00 buck or a 12ga slug from one of these shotguns but it didnt seem legal to me.

Dreaming100Straight · July 6, 2013, 09:43 PM

BigD, I know about the tax stamp thing, but am not sure that even if you pay it to the Feds you aren't running afoul of state law, if there be one.

**JohnKSa** · July 6, 2013, 09:45 PM

Quote:

The guy said; "No, these are considered & sold as pistols."

Any way you cut it, if the barrels were unrifled and under 18", they were NFA items. Calling them pistols changes nothing from a legal standpoint since smoothbore pistols are essentially either short-barreled shotguns or "any other weapons" from an NFA perspective and either would require an NFA tax stamp.

What I suspect is that they were legal because they had sufficiently long barrels (18" or longer) AND were sufficiently long in terms of overall length (26" or longer).

Even with the gun exceeding all the critical dimensions, it can make for a surprisingly compact firearm.

Quote:

I know about the tax stamp thing, but am not sure that even if you pay it to the Feds you aren't running afoul of state law, if there be one.

That's a good point. One must comply with both state and federal laws.

Dreaming100Straight · July 6, 2013, 10:03 PM

Clyde, I don't know if this is correct, but the weapon's legality supposedly depends on whether it came from the factory with a buttstock or a pistol grip. See this re Pistol Grip Only

http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

Added by edit. After doing a little reading on the subject, I don't feel comfortable with the ATF's decisions nor do I know enough to say they are wrong. If I am correct, the cost of an ATF stamp is a small price to pay if it means you don't risk running afoul of federal firearms law. I may have this wrong, but if you only are registering the transfer of a weapon to yourself the cost is $5, but if you manufacture one it is $200.

Northalius · July 6, 2013, 10:21 PM

I never looked into it but, it made me curious: Why does one need a "tax stamp" to get a shorter barreled shotgun?

Personally, I don't think there should be any restriction on any firearms as such, but that's just me; I know the tyrants have gotten into the system to a degree, so you see idiotic crap like this happen, sadly.

Boomer58cal · July 6, 2013, 11:14 PM

My cousin has two 20ga pistols in Idaho that have outside hammers and 6 inch barrels. Both were stamped and have been in the family for decades. He did have to go through the ATF when he inherited from his father. $200 bucks each believe. I'm guessing they are still legal.

They sure look mean in his thigh holsters though.

Boomer

BigD_in_FL · July 7, 2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

I never looked into it but, it made me curious: Why does one need a "tax stamp" to get a shorter barreled shotgun?

Because the Feds said so starting back in 1934

Quote:

The National Firearms Act (NFA), 72nd Congress, Sess. 2, ch. 757, 48 Stat. 1236, enacted on June 26, 1934, currently codified as amended as I.R.C. ch. 53, is an Act of Congress in the United States that, in general, imposes a statutory excise tax on the manufacture and transfer of certain firearms and mandates the registration of those firearms. The Act was passed shortly after the repeal of Prohibition. The NFA is also referred to as Title II of the Federal firearms laws. The Gun Control Act of 1968 ("GCA") is Title I.

James K · July 7, 2013, 10:45 PM

"If you're an LEO, N.P., either.............."

No problem for an LEO IF the gun is owned by and registered to his department, but an LEO is the same as anyone else in regard to personal ownership of an NFA firearm.

For the guns at that show to be legally pistols, they would have to 1) have been made from scratch as pistols and never have had a shoulder stock put on them and 2) have at least part of the barrel rifled. Yes, there are such guns made, so those may well have been legally pistols.

(They might not have been made as pistols by the company which made the receiver; it would be legal for the X Company, a manufacturer, to buy Remchester shotguns, and make them into pistols as described.)

Jim

colbad · July 8, 2013, 12:02 AM

If you have the short barrel and the matching SG reciever in the same proximity you have a T2 problem. Does not need to be assembled. Only exception is if you have an ISSUED T2 registration. Applying for such does not entitle you to anything until it is APPROVED and ISSUED. LEOs are NOT exempt from this unless the SG is department issued and owned. Personal FAs for LEOs still subject to same rules for possession as civilian.

As to the question concerning a pistol grip on a smooth boar, it is still subject to NFA rules as a short barreled SG.

July 4, 2013, 08:29 PM	#1
s4s4u Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2007 Location: MN Posts: 365	Barrel length legality? I know that a shotgun must have a barrel length of at least 18" to be legal, but is it illegal to posess a shotgun barrel shorter than 18" if it is not assembled as a shotgun?

July 4, 2013, 08:38 PM	#2
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,992	There's no issue as long as you don't have a shotgun that it will fit. I wouldn't risk it if I also owned a shotgun that went with the barrel. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

July 6, 2013, 09:22 PM	#9
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	Pistol?.... I'm not a ATF Special Agent or have a JD but I was a bit confused by a gun show table display that had a few Remington pump & auto shotguns with wood stocks that were custom pistol grips. The shotgun barrels looked short too(16-18"). I asked the clerk(a older guy; 55-65) if they were AOW(Any Other Weapon) classified or if they needed tax stamps. The guy said; "No, these are considered & sold as pistols." I'm not sure how'd you safely fire 00 buck or a 12ga slug from one of these shotguns but it didnt seem legal to me.

July 6, 2013, 10:03 PM	#12
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Clyde, I don't know if this is correct, but the weapon's legality supposedly depends on whether it came from the factory with a buttstock or a pistol grip. See this re Pistol Grip Only http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88 Added by edit. After doing a little reading on the subject, I don't feel comfortable with the ATF's decisions nor do I know enough to say they are wrong. If I am correct, the cost of an ATF stamp is a small price to pay if it means you don't risk running afoul of federal firearms law. I may have this wrong, but if you only are registering the transfer of a weapon to yourself the cost is $5, but if you manufacture one it is $200. Last edited by Dreaming100Straight; July 6, 2013 at 11:49 PM.

July 6, 2013, 10:21 PM	#13
Northalius Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2008 Location: U.S. Posts: 196	I never looked into it but, it made me curious: Why does one need a "tax stamp" to get a shorter barreled shotgun? Personally, I don't think there should be any restriction on any firearms as such, but that's just me; I know the tyrants have gotten into the system to a degree, so you see idiotic crap like this happen, sadly. __________________ A government that refuses to trust its citizenry with guns is, therefore, a government that cannot be trusted with guns, in turn!

July 4, 2013, 09:47 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	If you have an underlength barrel and a receiver that it would fit, that is known as "constructive possession" and means that you are in violation because the feds assume that if you COULD assemble a sawed off shotgun that you DID assemble a sawed off shotgun.

July 4, 2013, 10:03 PM	#4
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	IF you live in Canada, no issue....IF you have applied for a NFA tax stamp, no problem If you have someone's BUBBA'D barrel, dispose of promptly

July 6, 2013, 03:57 AM	#5
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. If you're an LEO, N.P., either.............. .

July 6, 2013, 04:07 PM	#7
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	Cut to 19" that way you won;t get hassled it's an inch over tht limit and it patterns nice! Mine puts 9 balls into9" @ 12 rt. That's torso width... BPDave

July 6, 2013, 06:54 PM	#8
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Dreamin- a barrel less than 18"requires a tax stamp here in the US

July 6, 2013, 09:43 PM	#10
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	BigD, I know about the tax stamp thing, but am not sure that even if you pay it to the Feds you aren't running afoul of state law, if there be one.

July 6, 2013, 11:14 PM	#14
Boomer58cal Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2013 Location: closer than you think Posts: 967	My cousin has two 20ga pistols in Idaho that have outside hammers and 6 inch barrels. Both were stamped and have been in the family for decades. He did have to go through the ATF when he inherited from his father. $200 bucks each believe. I'm guessing they are still legal. They sure look mean in his thigh holsters though. Boomer __________________ The number one cause of death in the 20th century. 290,000,000 citizens were first disarmed and then murdered by their own governments. This number does not include those killed in war. We're from the government, we're here to help

July 7, 2013, 10:45 PM	#16
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"If you're an LEO, N.P., either.............." No problem for an LEO IF the gun is owned by and registered to his department, but an LEO is the same as anyone else in regard to personal ownership of an NFA firearm. For the guns at that show to be legally pistols, they would have to 1) have been made from scratch as pistols and never have had a shoulder stock put on them and 2) have at least part of the barrel rifled. Yes, there are such guns made, so those may well have been legally pistols. (They might not have been made as pistols by the company which made the receiver; it would be legal for the X Company, a manufacturer, to buy Remchester shotguns, and make them into pistols as described.) Jim

July 8, 2013, 12:02 AM	#17
colbad Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2012 Posts: 506	If you have the short barrel and the matching SG reciever in the same proximity you have a T2 problem. Does not need to be assembled. Only exception is if you have an ISSUED T2 registration. Applying for such does not entitle you to anything until it is APPROVED and ISSUED. LEOs are NOT exempt from this unless the SG is department issued and owned. Personal FAs for LEOs still subject to same rules for possession as civilian. As to the question concerning a pistol grip on a smooth boar, it is still subject to NFA rules as a short barreled SG. Last edited by colbad; July 8, 2013 at 12:15 AM.