Collet Stuck in Die

ColColt · January 24, 2014, 09:44 PM

I bought a set of Lee Collet dies that got here today. I can't seem to get the collet out easy. I watched a video of a guy showing how to use them and his fell right out. I'll have to take something to knock it out unless anyone knows a better way.

Gunnels · January 25, 2014, 08:48 AM

Be sure the ram is in the middle of the up and motion. If it is too low the primer seater will be up in the collet and it will not come out. When you raise the ram the primer seater should come out and tilt forward. If it doesn't come out jiggle it a little and it will. One the primer seater comes out you can slide the collet forward and out.

ColColt · January 25, 2014, 11:55 AM

I haven't had it in the press yet. I'm just trying to get the collet out to clean and inspect things.

Scimmia · January 25, 2014, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Be sure the ram is in the middle of the up and motion. If it is too low the primer seater will be up in the collet and it will not come out. When you raise the ram the primer seater should come out and tilt forward. If it doesn't come out jiggle it a little and it will. One the primer seater comes out you can slide the collet forward and out.

He's not talking about a shell holder, he's talking about a part of a die.

@ColColt, some will just fall out, others won't. It shouldn't take much to push it out, though, if you have to bang it out with a hammer or something, something's wrong.

It should loosen up after some use.

j357 · January 25, 2014, 12:18 PM

Not saying this is the style of press you have or what happened with your die, but the method of dis-assembly and loosening the collet is described here: http://leeprecision.net/support/inde...kchucker-press

Once you get it apart, inspect the mating surfaces and lightly polish if necessary. Apply light coating of oil to mating surfaces and see if it works better. I would suggest not using the die without a case until you see what's causing it to stick and apply a little lube.

Note to self, the top of this die can strip out if too much force is applied.

ColColt · January 25, 2014, 12:40 PM

I did get the collet out but not without some force. I polished the entire collet and especially the tapered end, put some Lithium grease on it and it does go back together better but still tight. Usage I suppose, will loosen it up. It hasn't been used in the press yet as I mentioned. The inside of the die body is a bit rough.

I don't have a Rockchucker but an RCBS Jr. I don't understand the term, "toggles over center".

F. Guffey · January 25, 2014, 01:39 PM

[QUOTE I don't understand the term, "toggles over center". ] [/QUOTE]

In the old days the ram went up to the top of its travel then stopped and started back down. The press that had a ram that went up and stopped and started back down was a CAM OVER PRESS. When the ram went up and stopped and started back down was was referred to as being a bump press. Back in those days reloaders referred to bumping a case when sizing, the press went up and bumped the top of the press and then started down.

In the old days reloaders could measure the amount of bump. Instructions that came with dies and presses made references to adjusting a bump type press and a non bump press.

I have 4 rock Chuckers, none of them cam over, they are non bump presses. All of my Rock Chuckers lock up, cram up, jam up or simply go into a bind, meaning the top of the press raises and the toggle goes into a binder mode (oil field term).

I have 8 Herter presses, all of my Herter presses are cam over presses, they all bump the top of the press when the ram goes up and then starts down, all of my Herter presses bump at the top twice, on the way up and again on the way down.

I can adjust a Herter press to go into a bind by screwing the die down below contact with the shell holder.

Toggle over is a term used by those that understand the RCBS type Rock Chucker is not a cam over press.

F. Guffey

ColColt · January 25, 2014, 01:58 PM

When my RCBS Jr goes to the top to it doesn't fall back but stays where it is. I thought all presses were like that. My old 1968 Pacific C-type press was the same way.

243winxb · January 25, 2014, 02:41 PM

http://leeprecision.net/support/inde...roduct-support Info at link.

Quote:

Collet Dies on Rockchucker Press
Posted by on 19 October 2011 01:18 PM
If you are using the Collet die in an RCBS Rockchucker press, or a similar design that toggles over center at the top of the (ram) stroke, this applies far greater force than is necessary to resize just the neck of the case, and can damage the die or collapse the case. To correct this situation, adjust the die two full turns into the press after the die contacts the shell holder with the ram at the top of its stroke, rather than one as in the instructions. This will stop the press before it gets to the toggle over point. With a press without having an over center feature, apply about 25 lbs. of pressure to the handle once it bottoms out to resize the case. On most presses, this translates to over 600 lbs of pressure on the ram.

The collet might be stuck in the closed position from closing the die without a case inside. Remove the cap from the top of the Collet die and push the mandrel, collet sleeve and collet out through the top of the die. Open the collet back up with a tapered punch or Phillips screwdriver.

F. Guffey · January 25, 2014, 03:20 PM

Quote:

When my RCBS Jr goes to the top to it doesn't fall back but stays where it is. I thought all presses were like that. My old 1968 Pacific C-type press was the same way.

Standard answer when responding to a question about sizing: I bump the shoulder back .001" and then I ask: "How do you do that?" I get no answer or "trial and error".

I can not bump a shoulder, when sizing, the shoulder can not be bumped back without case body support, meaning when I size a case the body and shoulder get sized and reloaders assume the shoulder is moved back. On my cases the shoulder does not move, it is erased, the new shoulder is formed during the sizing process.

No one scribes cases, I have scribed the case body/shoulder juncture when fire forming, I have had case bodies become part o the shoulder and part of the shoulder become part of the neck, the scribed mark that was part of the case body/shoulder juncture became part of the case body, again, the shoulder did not move.

Fire forming, when others fire a case and the case runs to the end of the chamber my scribe marks do not move indicating the case did not move. My scribe marks prove the old shoulder did not move forward, it proves the shoulder was erased and became part of the case body, part of the case body became part of the shoulder and part of the shoulder became part of the neck.

I have fired 8mm57 rounds in an 8mm06 chamber, there is no reason to scribe the case body/shoulder juncture on the 8mm57 case, after firing the 8mm57 case in the 8mm06 chamber the 8mm57 case, when ejected, looks like an 8mm/06 case with no neck. Proving? the firing pin did not drive the case forward to the front of the chamber and the shoulder of the case did not get slammed into the shoulder of the chamber.

Yes, the case got shorter when fired from the end of the neck to the case head but the case got longer from the shoulder to the head of the case.

F. Guffey

jepp2 · January 25, 2014, 05:53 PM

Quote:

@ColColt, some will just fall out, others won't. It shouldn't take much to push it out, though, if you have to bang it out with a hammer or something, something's wrong.

I usually just use a dowel rod (5/8" I think without checking) and force out the collet. None of mine just fall out. Some take quite a bit of force to press out.

DO NOT operate the die without a case in it. It will collapse the fingers of the collet and you will need to open them up again.

They take a while to get the hang of, but you will learn to feel the neck resizing. Very easy once you learn. Make sure you polish the ID of the collet. This will reduce the marking of the brass neck. Photo courtesy of TFL member Clark.

ColColt · January 25, 2014, 06:32 PM

I polished those areas you show in the pics with crocus cloth and a light buffing with the Dremel. Not enough to take off metal, just polish. I sized some cases earlier but not sure if I've sized enough. The bullet would initially go into the case with a little force. I lowered the die again till just the base would go in. There was a bit of pressure on the ram handle of my RCBS Jr, sort of a "snap" for lack of a better word. Am I about there? I have no idea if that's .001,.002 or even .004" neck tension.

Scimmia · January 25, 2014, 07:41 PM

If the linkage of the press is hitting the stop, you're not there. When you use these dies, the ram should never go all the way to the top.

jepp2 · January 25, 2014, 07:59 PM

With ram in the full up postion, screw the collet die down until it contacts the shell holder. Lower the ram, and screw the collet die down 1 full turn further. Instruction straight from Lee.

The only way you are going to increase the neck tension is to reduce the mandrel diameter. Pressing harder does nothing.

Quote:

The bullet would initially go into the case with a little force. I lowered the die again till just the base would go in.

You would better served measuring the OD of the neck before sizing and post sizing. Then seat a bullet and see if the neck OD increases. A micrometer (0.0001" resolution) will yield much more accurate results than a dial caliper can. On a properly sized neck there is no way you can press a bullet in with finger pressure.

If the necks of your brass have work hardened, there will be considerable spring back. The necks may not properly size without annealing.

ColColt · January 25, 2014, 08:13 PM

I measured the OD at .304", seated a bullet and it measured the same but the bullet's tight and can't get it out without a puller.

I didn't mention these were new cases I used and miked. I took another fired case that measured .308", sized it and that brought it to .304". Seating a bullet was almost effortless and miked the same thing. I could nearly pull the bullet out.

Scimmia · January 25, 2014, 11:52 PM

Seriously, think about how the die works and adjusting it becomes simple. Don't just blindly follow directions, think.

Does an RCBS Jr have the same leverage that the larger presses have? If not, you may need to use more pressure. 25 lb is actually quite a bit, though.

ColColt · January 26, 2014, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Does an RCBS Jr have the same leverage that the larger presses have? If not, you may need to use more pressure. 25 lb is actually quite a bit, though.

I have not idea. I only have one press and nothing to compare it too. I'd say it doesn't have the leverage the Rockchucker does, however.

jepp2 · January 26, 2014, 05:00 PM

Quote:

I didn't mention these were new cases I used and miked. I took another fired case that measured .308", sized it and that brought it to .304". Seating a bullet was almost effortless and miked the same thing. I could nearly pull the bullet out.

As far as the new cases go, the mandrel will actually serve as an expander on them. So sizing serves no purpose. If you are getting 0.004 reduction in neck OD but your bullet still isn't holding tight, reduce the mandrel by 0.001". The only time I have had an issue with adequate neck tension was when the necks needed annealing. I haven't had to reduce the mandrel size.

I use a Rock Chucker with the collet dies, but you screw them in 2 turns after contact with the shell holder, to keep it away from the increased leverage point.

But, there will be less neck tension after sizing with the collet die than if you sized them in a normal full length sizing die. But the bullet will have adequate tension

January 24, 2014, 09:44 PM	#1
ColColt Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2010 Posts: 354	Collet Stuck in Die I bought a set of Lee Collet dies that got here today. I can't seem to get the collet out easy. I watched a video of a guy showing how to use them and his fell right out. I'll have to take something to knock it out unless anyone knows a better way.

January 25, 2014, 01:39 PM	#7
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	[QUOTE I don't understand the term, "toggles over center". ] [/QUOTE] In the old days the ram went up to the top of its travel then stopped and started back down. The press that had a ram that went up and stopped and started back down was a CAM OVER PRESS. When the ram went up and stopped and started back down was was referred to as being a bump press. Back in those days reloaders referred to bumping a case when sizing, the press went up and bumped the top of the press and then started down. In the old days reloaders could measure the amount of bump. Instructions that came with dies and presses made references to adjusting a bump type press and a non bump press. I have 4 rock Chuckers, none of them cam over, they are non bump presses. All of my Rock Chuckers lock up, cram up, jam up or simply go into a bind, meaning the top of the press raises and the toggle goes into a binder mode (oil field term). I have 8 Herter presses, all of my Herter presses are cam over presses, they all bump the top of the press when the ram goes up and then starts down, all of my Herter presses bump at the top twice, on the way up and again on the way down. I can adjust a Herter press to go into a bind by screwing the die down below contact with the shell holder. Toggle over is a term used by those that understand the RCBS type Rock Chucker is not a cam over press. F. Guffey Last edited by F. Guffey; January 25, 2014 at 01:46 PM. Reason: add d

January 25, 2014, 08:13 PM	#15
ColColt Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2010 Posts: 354	I measured the OD at .304", seated a bullet and it measured the same but the bullet's tight and can't get it out without a puller. I didn't mention these were new cases I used and miked. I took another fired case that measured .308", sized it and that brought it to .304". Seating a bullet was almost effortless and miked the same thing. I could nearly pull the bullet out. Last edited by ColColt; January 25, 2014 at 08:19 PM.

January 25, 2014, 08:48 AM	#2
Gunnels Member Join Date: March 23, 2013 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 76	Be sure the ram is in the middle of the up and motion. If it is too low the primer seater will be up in the collet and it will not come out. When you raise the ram the primer seater should come out and tilt forward. If it doesn't come out jiggle it a little and it will. One the primer seater comes out you can slide the collet forward and out.

January 25, 2014, 11:55 AM	#3
ColColt Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2010 Posts: 354	I haven't had it in the press yet. I'm just trying to get the collet out to clean and inspect things.

January 25, 2014, 12:18 PM	#5
j357 Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Liberty Twp, OH Posts: 283	Not saying this is the style of press you have or what happened with your die, but the method of dis-assembly and loosening the collet is described here: http://leeprecision.net/support/inde...kchucker-press Once you get it apart, inspect the mating surfaces and lightly polish if necessary. Apply light coating of oil to mating surfaces and see if it works better. I would suggest not using the die without a case until you see what's causing it to stick and apply a little lube. Note to self, the top of this die can strip out if too much force is applied.

January 25, 2014, 12:40 PM	#6
ColColt Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2010 Posts: 354	I did get the collet out but not without some force. I polished the entire collet and especially the tapered end, put some Lithium grease on it and it does go back together better but still tight. Usage I suppose, will loosen it up. It hasn't been used in the press yet as I mentioned. The inside of the die body is a bit rough. I don't have a Rockchucker but an RCBS Jr. I don't understand the term, "toggles over center".

January 25, 2014, 01:58 PM	#8
ColColt Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2010 Posts: 354	When my RCBS Jr goes to the top to it doesn't fall back but stays where it is. I thought all presses were like that. My old 1968 Pacific C-type press was the same way.

January 25, 2014, 06:32 PM	#12
ColColt Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2010 Posts: 354	I polished those areas you show in the pics with crocus cloth and a light buffing with the Dremel. Not enough to take off metal, just polish. I sized some cases earlier but not sure if I've sized enough. The bullet would initially go into the case with a little force. I lowered the die again till just the base would go in. There was a bit of pressure on the ram handle of my RCBS Jr, sort of a "snap" for lack of a better word. Am I about there? I have no idea if that's .001,.002 or even .004" neck tension.

January 25, 2014, 07:41 PM	#13
Scimmia Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Location: Eastern IA Posts: 428	If the linkage of the press is hitting the stop, you're not there. When you use these dies, the ram should never go all the way to the top.

January 25, 2014, 11:52 PM	#16
Scimmia Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Location: Eastern IA Posts: 428	Seriously, think about how the die works and adjusting it becomes simple. Don't just blindly follow directions, think. Does an RCBS Jr have the same leverage that the larger presses have? If not, you may need to use more pressure. 25 lb is actually quite a bit, though.