Lee carbide factory crimp die seating bullets deeper?

mattL46 · April 22, 2013, 01:27 PM

So I'm having a bit of trouble. My die as mentioned above upon a light to medium crimp is seating the bullets in some cases more than 20 thousandths. One was almost 25. These are 38 spec with oak of 1.480 according to lymans book. 158 gn speer JSP (I know there is no listed data for this bullet but have been shooting them just fine) just realized this little issue. Thankfully the 38 is forgiving for seating depth. Any explanation why this is happening and maybe a fix. I had my bullets all seated at a beautiful 1.480 +- 001. This is really frustrating. Only does it when it really starts to crimp... Backed it out for a barely visible crimp and bullet was proper measurement. More crimp deeper bullet. Help!!!

superspirit · April 22, 2013, 02:52 PM

I have been using Lee factory crimp dies for years, and never had that problem. I wonder if maybe you are over crimping ? the lee factory crimp die should never touch the bullets, just the cases.

mattL46 · April 22, 2013, 04:33 PM

Super spirit I took the die apart and slipped the crimp ring over the bullet and it appeared to contact only the mouth of the case. Of course I can't see what's happening when its in use. As for over crimping I don't think so. I was pretty thorough following the instructions. Touch shell holder back off adjusting screw. Raise cartridge. Screw in crimp adjustment until you feel it touch mouth of case (with no force I run it in until it stops then back it off ever ever so slightly) lower it about half turn maybe slightly more then crimp. Crimp looks good but it goes from an OAL of 1.480 to about 1.460. No idea what could be going wrong.

mattL46 · April 22, 2013, 04:36 PM

Unless the crimping ring is slightly on the small side?

mattL46 · April 22, 2013, 05:26 PM

I researched this a bit I'm not the only one with this problem. If it is a problem.

dickttx · April 22, 2013, 07:17 PM

Probably the easiest thing, if it is consistent, is to allow for it in your seating die adjustment.

mattL46 · April 22, 2013, 10:05 PM

Dick my thoughts exactly. My research has concluded that this may very well be the nature of this particular type of crimp. Maybe not as the other gentleman above mentioned he has had no problems. Until I can find a more permanent fix I'll run them out a little longer accordingly.

superspirit · April 23, 2013, 08:27 AM

The instructions on my Lee FCD say to back the die out 3 turns and set the locknut, not back the locknut off. maybe that is what you meant, but it didnt read that way. IF that is what you are doing then I dont know of any cure as I personally have not had that problem, sorry I cant be of more help.

dickttx · April 23, 2013, 08:33 AM

The OP got me thinking.
I don't believe I ever measure the OAL after the seating die. Only after the FCD. Therefor, I have never noticed a problem.

mdmtj · April 23, 2013, 08:55 AM

I've had the same issue with the crimping die pushing the bullet down a bit on 9mm JHP being run on a Dillon 550 using Lee dies. I ended up backing the seating die out a little and that plus the action of the crimp die gave me the OAL I wanted. It was very consistant with the JHP I was loading. When I load my LRN I don't get the same push from the crimp die.

mattL46 · April 23, 2013, 12:00 PM

Super spirit we may be talking about 2 different dies. I crimp in a seperate step from seating. Got the deluxe 4 die set. My seater is not a crimper. My instructions for the CFCD are exactly as mentioned above. Screw in die to touch shell holder. Lock the nut. Raise cartridge. Touch mouth of cartridge with adjustment screw. Lower cartridge. 1/2 turn on adjustment screw for light crimp full turn for heavy. My bullet seating die instructs to back out 3 full turns.

mattL46 · April 23, 2013, 12:01 PM

Dick measure some after the crimp. This is a jacketed soft point bullet. Maybe yours does the same.

mattL46 · April 23, 2013, 12:03 PM

Mdmtj sure sounds suspicious...could it be the brass to copper relationship? During the crimping the brass keeps hold of the copper jacket and sucks it down a little hmm...bothersome.

dickttx · April 23, 2013, 01:08 PM

"The OP got me thinking.
I don't believe I ever measure the OAL after the seating die. Only after the FCD. Therefor, I have never noticed a problem."

I guess what I was trying to say is that I don't consider it a problem. I only care about the OAL of the finished round.

superspirit · April 23, 2013, 02:28 PM

My apologies, I was confusing the setup instructions for the rcbs crimp and seat die with the Lee FCD. however I do use the Lee fcd on .380, 9mm and 45acp, and never had the problem you have described. however I only load jacketed hollow points, no soft points, maybe that is why I never encountered the problem.

mattL46 · April 23, 2013, 04:33 PM

Dicktx I haven't had any pressure problems so far. Luckily the 38 spec case is forgiving in that area. Its just a little bothersome. @super spirit I wondered that myself although the bullet is jacketed up to the soft point so the case bears on the jacket and the crimp ring completely clears the soft point because its tapered...hell I don't know. Guess I don't much care as long as it doesn't blow me or the launcher up...

Revolver1 · April 23, 2013, 04:49 PM

Measure bullets AFTER crimp, this is correct OAL! Adjust accordingly!

jcwit · April 23, 2013, 05:12 PM

I have a 45 ACP FCD. I solved all my problems with the FCD.

Removed it from my press and it now sits unused in a drawer.

I shoot my own cast lead bullets, the FCD may be OK for FMJ, I have no idea.

superspirit · April 23, 2013, 08:32 PM

I have used it with no problems on winchester jhp's, nosler jhp's, honady xtp's and remington golden sabers. in 380, 9mm, 40 and 45acp. guess I just got lucky. I used it today on 100rds of 45 acp with out a prob. I only use a 1/4 turn crimp as it has worked fine, I've never had a bullet move on me even with +P loads.

rfdillon · April 23, 2013, 09:00 PM

I use Lee FCDs for 9mm, .380, and .40 S&W, and with very good results.
I don't use them for .38special nor .357 Magnum. May I suggest that you apply a roll crimp using the seater die, eliminating a separate crimp step?

mattL46 · April 23, 2013, 10:12 PM

Rf Dillon as far as I know my seater die does not crimp. I've got the 4 die set. And I was under the impression the FCD is a roll crimp. Looks like one.

mattL46 · April 23, 2013, 10:14 PM

There are some xtp bullets at the LGS I'll pick up a box of those and try them just for fun. I'll email or call Lee for fun just to see what they say. Not a huge deal I can live with it I guess.

mattL46 · April 23, 2013, 10:19 PM

@superspirit like I mentioned earlier I've tried just about all crimp ranges. A very very light crimp it doesn't seem to do it but man if I give it enough for it to be even slightly visible it seats it about .010 and just for experimentation after I discovered this I gave a few a heavy crimp one was about .027 deeper.. Crazy... Don't worry I'll launch those out of the martini...it'll eat anything!

reynolds357 · April 23, 2013, 10:19 PM

Put a slight roll crimp on with the seating die. Then put the "factory crimp" on it using the f.c. die.

mattL46 · April 23, 2013, 10:21 PM

@Reynolds I really don't think my sweater die crimps. Unless I don't remember what I bought. Which is possible.

April 22, 2013, 01:27 PM	#1
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Lee carbide factory crimp die seating bullets deeper? So I'm having a bit of trouble. My die as mentioned above upon a light to medium crimp is seating the bullets in some cases more than 20 thousandths. One was almost 25. These are 38 spec with oak of 1.480 according to lymans book. 158 gn speer JSP (I know there is no listed data for this bullet but have been shooting them just fine) just realized this little issue. Thankfully the 38 is forgiving for seating depth. Any explanation why this is happening and maybe a fix. I had my bullets all seated at a beautiful 1.480 +- 001. This is really frustrating. Only does it when it really starts to crimp... Backed it out for a barely visible crimp and bullet was proper measurement. More crimp deeper bullet. Help!!!

April 22, 2013, 07:17 PM	#6
dickttx Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 500	Probably the easiest thing, if it is consistent, is to allow for it in your seating die adjustment. __________________ Education teaches you the rules, experience teaches you the exceptions (Plagiarized from Claude Clay)

April 23, 2013, 08:33 AM	#9
dickttx Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 500	The OP got me thinking. I don't believe I ever measure the OAL after the seating die. Only after the FCD. Therefor, I have never noticed a problem. __________________ Education teaches you the rules, experience teaches you the exceptions (Plagiarized from Claude Clay)

April 23, 2013, 01:08 PM	#14
dickttx Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 500	"The OP got me thinking. I don't believe I ever measure the OAL after the seating die. Only after the FCD. Therefor, I have never noticed a problem." I guess what I was trying to say is that I don't consider it a problem. I only care about the OAL of the finished round. __________________ Education teaches you the rules, experience teaches you the exceptions (Plagiarized from Claude Clay)

April 23, 2013, 05:12 PM	#18
jcwit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2007 Location: Upper Indiana Posts: 609	I have a 45 ACP FCD. I solved all my problems with the FCD. Removed it from my press and it now sits unused in a drawer. I shoot my own cast lead bullets, the FCD may be OK for FMJ, I have no idea. __________________ U.S. Army Veteran NRA Certified Range Officer

April 22, 2013, 02:52 PM	#2
superspirit Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Posts: 211	I have been using Lee factory crimp dies for years, and never had that problem. I wonder if maybe you are over crimping ? the lee factory crimp die should never touch the bullets, just the cases.

April 22, 2013, 04:33 PM	#3
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Super spirit I took the die apart and slipped the crimp ring over the bullet and it appeared to contact only the mouth of the case. Of course I can't see what's happening when its in use. As for over crimping I don't think so. I was pretty thorough following the instructions. Touch shell holder back off adjusting screw. Raise cartridge. Screw in crimp adjustment until you feel it touch mouth of case (with no force I run it in until it stops then back it off ever ever so slightly) lower it about half turn maybe slightly more then crimp. Crimp looks good but it goes from an OAL of 1.480 to about 1.460. No idea what could be going wrong.

April 22, 2013, 04:36 PM	#4
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Unless the crimping ring is slightly on the small side?

April 22, 2013, 05:26 PM	#5
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	I researched this a bit I'm not the only one with this problem. If it is a problem.

April 22, 2013, 10:05 PM	#7
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Dick my thoughts exactly. My research has concluded that this may very well be the nature of this particular type of crimp. Maybe not as the other gentleman above mentioned he has had no problems. Until I can find a more permanent fix I'll run them out a little longer accordingly.

April 23, 2013, 08:27 AM	#8
superspirit Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Posts: 211	The instructions on my Lee FCD say to back the die out 3 turns and set the locknut, not back the locknut off. maybe that is what you meant, but it didnt read that way. IF that is what you are doing then I dont know of any cure as I personally have not had that problem, sorry I cant be of more help.

April 23, 2013, 08:55 AM	#10
mdmtj Member Join Date: March 4, 2013 Posts: 80	I've had the same issue with the crimping die pushing the bullet down a bit on 9mm JHP being run on a Dillon 550 using Lee dies. I ended up backing the seating die out a little and that plus the action of the crimp die gave me the OAL I wanted. It was very consistant with the JHP I was loading. When I load my LRN I don't get the same push from the crimp die.

April 23, 2013, 12:00 PM	#11
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Super spirit we may be talking about 2 different dies. I crimp in a seperate step from seating. Got the deluxe 4 die set. My seater is not a crimper. My instructions for the CFCD are exactly as mentioned above. Screw in die to touch shell holder. Lock the nut. Raise cartridge. Touch mouth of cartridge with adjustment screw. Lower cartridge. 1/2 turn on adjustment screw for light crimp full turn for heavy. My bullet seating die instructs to back out 3 full turns.

April 23, 2013, 12:01 PM	#12
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Dick measure some after the crimp. This is a jacketed soft point bullet. Maybe yours does the same.

April 23, 2013, 12:03 PM	#13
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Mdmtj sure sounds suspicious...could it be the brass to copper relationship? During the crimping the brass keeps hold of the copper jacket and sucks it down a little hmm...bothersome.

April 23, 2013, 02:28 PM	#15
superspirit Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Posts: 211	My apologies, I was confusing the setup instructions for the rcbs crimp and seat die with the Lee FCD. however I do use the Lee fcd on .380, 9mm and 45acp, and never had the problem you have described. however I only load jacketed hollow points, no soft points, maybe that is why I never encountered the problem.

April 23, 2013, 04:33 PM	#16
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Dicktx I haven't had any pressure problems so far. Luckily the 38 spec case is forgiving in that area. Its just a little bothersome. @super spirit I wondered that myself although the bullet is jacketed up to the soft point so the case bears on the jacket and the crimp ring completely clears the soft point because its tapered...hell I don't know. Guess I don't much care as long as it doesn't blow me or the launcher up...

April 23, 2013, 04:49 PM	#17
Revolver1 Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2013 Location: NY Posts: 150	Measure bullets AFTER crimp, this is correct OAL! Adjust accordingly!

April 23, 2013, 08:32 PM	#19
superspirit Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Posts: 211	I have used it with no problems on winchester jhp's, nosler jhp's, honady xtp's and remington golden sabers. in 380, 9mm, 40 and 45acp. guess I just got lucky. I used it today on 100rds of 45 acp with out a prob. I only use a 1/4 turn crimp as it has worked fine, I've never had a bullet move on me even with +P loads.

April 23, 2013, 09:00 PM	#20
rfdillon Member Join Date: April 8, 2007 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 60	I use Lee FCDs for 9mm, .380, and .40 S&W, and with very good results. I don't use them for .38special nor .357 Magnum. May I suggest that you apply a roll crimp using the seater die, eliminating a separate crimp step?

April 23, 2013, 10:12 PM	#21
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Rf Dillon as far as I know my seater die does not crimp. I've got the 4 die set. And I was under the impression the FCD is a roll crimp. Looks like one.

April 23, 2013, 10:14 PM	#22
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	There are some xtp bullets at the LGS I'll pick up a box of those and try them just for fun. I'll email or call Lee for fun just to see what they say. Not a huge deal I can live with it I guess.

April 23, 2013, 10:19 PM	#23
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	@superspirit like I mentioned earlier I've tried just about all crimp ranges. A very very light crimp it doesn't seem to do it but man if I give it enough for it to be even slightly visible it seats it about .010 and just for experimentation after I discovered this I gave a few a heavy crimp one was about .027 deeper.. Crazy... Don't worry I'll launch those out of the martini...it'll eat anything!

April 23, 2013, 10:19 PM	#24
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Put a slight roll crimp on with the seating die. Then put the "factory crimp" on it using the f.c. die.

April 23, 2013, 10:21 PM	#25
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	@Reynolds I really don't think my sweater die crimps. Unless I don't remember what I bought. Which is possible.