S&W model 25 in .45 acp

BigJimP · July 17, 2014, 01:01 PM

Can you fire the model 25's without the moon clips installed - by dropping a round into each cylinder ?

( the S&W 625's ...) have cylinders ground so the round sits in the cylinder and it can fire without the moon clips )....and while you'd need to use a pencil or something to eject the spent cases...its an option.

Will the older model 25's allow the same procedure....or when you drop the straight walled .45 acp round into the cylinder and tip the gun forward will the case migrate forward in the cylinder....and not allow it to fire ?

I know you always have the option to use .45 Auto Rim.../ but I'm curious about the .45 acp

FlyFish · July 17, 2014, 01:04 PM

.45 ACP rounds will headspace properly on the case mouth in my 1975 25-2.

BigJimP · July 17, 2014, 01:08 PM

Thanks

Driftwood Johnson · July 19, 2014, 06:43 PM

Dunno about a Model 25, but I can drop 45 ACP into my 1917 Smiths and fire them just fine without clips. The rounds headspace on the step in the chamber, not on a clip. I suspect that Smith has been doing it that way all along.

SaxonPig · July 19, 2014, 07:52 PM

I believe you can shoot without the clips but you can't eject the empties. Have to pluck them out with the fingers or push from the front with a rod.

I have one of those. Lotta fun. The 45 ACP is a pussycat in such a heavy revolver.

Neil Casper · July 19, 2014, 08:55 PM

Bear in mind that there are some dash versions of the Model 25 that are chambered in .45 Colt and they do not have the "step' in the chamber for the .45 acp case to head space on, and moon clips won't fit.

DPris · July 20, 2014, 12:37 AM

The older .45 ACP Smiths would properly headspace & fire ACP rounds without clips.
More recent versions over the past 15 years or so would not.
So- it depends on the age of the gun.
Denis

hammie · July 20, 2014, 10:34 AM

@DPris: Thanks for chiming in. That's kind of the way I remembered it, but wasn't sure and so I was hesitant to post. I thought that the older production model 25's had the chamber shoulder cut. Then there was a brief interlude when it wasn't, but the chamber shoulder is cut on recent and present production. As a noted writer in the shooting sports field, I'm sure you have the inside track.

What I do know is that my 5 inch, model 625-2, made in 1995, has the chamber shoulder cut.

DPris · July 20, 2014, 11:41 AM

They all had the "cut", among those I've seen, it's just that the cut or shoulder was not consistent.
On about five guns I had here over 5 or 6 years, some chambers would reliably headspace & fire, others would allow the firing pin strike to push the round forward enough to seat the round deeper into the chamber & not fire.

I argued it with S&W, but didn't get anywhere.
"Our new process doesn't allow that."
Well, yeah, it does, I've had new Smiths here in hand that would not do what my older .45 ACP Smiths would do.

Denis

Hunter Customs · July 20, 2014, 07:55 PM

My 625-6 fires 45 ACP just fine without the moon clips.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com

Jim Watson · July 20, 2014, 08:37 PM

I have read elsewhere what Denis describes in #9.
On the other hand, the M25 is kind of infamous for odd size chamber throats, usually large.

Bob Wright · July 20, 2014, 09:08 PM

I personally have never had, nor seen, a Smith 7 Wesson .45 ACP that would not fire .45 ACP without clips. While my experience has been rather limited on .45 ACP revolvers, I have seen some Colt M1917s that absolutely required clips for headspacing.

Incidentally, the best ejector in such cases is an unsharpened red Coca-Cola pencil. Next best was a No.2 yellow Eagle pencil. Once thought of making a spring loaded ejector, but got rid of my DA .45 ACP revolvers.

Bob Wright

gyvel · July 21, 2014, 11:16 PM

Not sure what the dash # is (too lazy to go into the vault and look), but my Model 22-something "1917" replica lets the cases head space on the mouth of the case.

DPris · July 21, 2014, 11:40 PM

The one I had here didn't, reliably.
Some rounds would, some wouldn't.
Denis

Clark · July 24, 2014, 12:06 AM

I got a 1970 S&W 25-2 45acp in 2002 off a forum for $360.

It misfires too much with moon clips and 45acp.

But it works well with 45 auto rim brass, so that is how I shoot it.

I load it up so it kicks like a 44 mag.

DPris · July 24, 2014, 12:17 PM

Might look at the strain screw & the mainspring.
Definitely something wrong if it's misfiring with clips.
Denis

Dave T · July 24, 2014, 08:25 PM

All the S&W 45 ACPs I've owned, and it's been quite a few, have fired fine without moon clips. That includes 1917s, pre-M25s, M25-2s, M-625s & a 325NG.

That being said, I never shoot them that way except when testing ammo (chronograph, etc.). Full moon clips are such an advantage I can't see any reason to not use them, ever. I generally keep an ammo can full of loaded moon clips and can shoot till I'm tired, without having to load or unload them at the range.

Once back home in the shop I use a tool from Brownells to empty the clips and another tool from mooncliptool.com to load them up again. Not much harder than loading magazines but it's all done before I even go to the range.

YMMV,
Dave

mchapman · July 30, 2014, 12:04 PM

I have a 625-8 JM in 4inch and a friend also has one just like mine, and neither one will shoot without moonclips. I haven't had the chance to fire a MDL.25 yet but would like to.

July 17, 2014, 01:01 PM	#1
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	S&W model 25 in .45 acp Can you fire the model 25's without the moon clips installed - by dropping a round into each cylinder ? ( the S&W 625's ...) have cylinders ground so the round sits in the cylinder and it can fire without the moon clips )....and while you'd need to use a pencil or something to eject the spent cases...its an option. Will the older model 25's allow the same procedure....or when you drop the straight walled .45 acp round into the cylinder and tip the gun forward will the case migrate forward in the cylinder....and not allow it to fire ? I know you always have the option to use .45 Auto Rim.../ but I'm curious about the .45 acp Last edited by BigJimP; July 18, 2014 at 02:04 PM.

July 17, 2014, 01:04 PM	#2
FlyFish Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley Posts: 1,723	.45 ACP rounds will headspace properly on the case mouth in my 1975 25-2. __________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Certified Instructor: Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, PPIH, Metallic & Shotgun Shell Reloading; RSO Pemigewasset Valley Fish & Game Club

July 19, 2014, 08:55 PM	#6
Neil Casper Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Ohio Posts: 46	Bear in mind that there are some dash versions of the Model 25 that are chambered in .45 Colt and they do not have the "step' in the chamber for the .45 acp case to head space on, and moon clips won't fit. __________________ "I AM my brothers keeper."

July 24, 2014, 12:06 AM	#15
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I got a 1970 S&W 25-2 45acp in 2002 off a forum for $360. It misfires too much with moon clips and 45acp. But it works well with 45 auto rim brass, so that is how I shoot it. I load it up so it kicks like a 44 mag. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

July 24, 2014, 08:25 PM	#17
Dave T Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2000 Location: Mesa, Arizona Posts: 1,456	All the S&W 45 ACPs I've owned, and it's been quite a few, have fired fine without moon clips. That includes 1917s, pre-M25s, M25-2s, M-625s & a 325NG. That being said, I never shoot them that way except when testing ammo (chronograph, etc.). Full moon clips are such an advantage I can't see any reason to not use them, ever. I generally keep an ammo can full of loaded moon clips and can shoot till I'm tired, without having to load or unload them at the range. Once back home in the shop I use a tool from Brownells to empty the clips and another tool from mooncliptool.com to load them up again. Not much harder than loading magazines but it's all done before I even go to the range. YMMV, Dave __________________ RSVN '69-'71 PCSD Ret

July 17, 2014, 01:08 PM	#3
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Thanks

July 19, 2014, 06:43 PM	#4
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Dunno about a Model 25, but I can drop 45 ACP into my 1917 Smiths and fire them just fine without clips. The rounds headspace on the step in the chamber, not on a clip. I suspect that Smith has been doing it that way all along.

July 19, 2014, 07:52 PM	#5
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	I believe you can shoot without the clips but you can't eject the empties. Have to pluck them out with the fingers or push from the front with a rod. I have one of those. Lotta fun. The 45 ACP is a pussycat in such a heavy revolver.

July 20, 2014, 12:37 AM	#7
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	The older .45 ACP Smiths would properly headspace & fire ACP rounds without clips. More recent versions over the past 15 years or so would not. So- it depends on the age of the gun. Denis

July 20, 2014, 10:34 AM	#8
hammie Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Location: Temple, TX Posts: 959	@DPris: Thanks for chiming in. That's kind of the way I remembered it, but wasn't sure and so I was hesitant to post. I thought that the older production model 25's had the chamber shoulder cut. Then there was a brief interlude when it wasn't, but the chamber shoulder is cut on recent and present production. As a noted writer in the shooting sports field, I'm sure you have the inside track. What I do know is that my 5 inch, model 625-2, made in 1995, has the chamber shoulder cut.

July 20, 2014, 11:41 AM	#9
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	They all had the "cut", among those I've seen, it's just that the cut or shoulder was not consistent. On about five guns I had here over 5 or 6 years, some chambers would reliably headspace & fire, others would allow the firing pin strike to push the round forward enough to seat the round deeper into the chamber & not fire. I argued it with S&W, but didn't get anywhere. "Our new process doesn't allow that." Well, yeah, it does, I've had new Smiths here in hand that would not do what my older .45 ACP Smiths would do. Denis

July 20, 2014, 07:55 PM	#10
Hunter Customs Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Osborn, Missouri Posts: 2,697	My 625-6 fires 45 ACP just fine without the moon clips. Best Regards Bob Hunter www.huntercustoms.com

July 20, 2014, 08:37 PM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I have read elsewhere what Denis describes in #9. On the other hand, the M25 is kind of infamous for odd size chamber throats, usually large.

July 20, 2014, 09:08 PM	#12
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	I personally have never had, nor seen, a Smith 7 Wesson .45 ACP that would not fire .45 ACP without clips. While my experience has been rather limited on .45 ACP revolvers, I have seen some Colt M1917s that absolutely required clips for headspacing. Incidentally, the best ejector in such cases is an unsharpened red Coca-Cola pencil. Next best was a No.2 yellow Eagle pencil. Once thought of making a spring loaded ejector, but got rid of my DA .45 ACP revolvers. Bob Wright

July 21, 2014, 11:16 PM	#13
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Not sure what the dash # is (too lazy to go into the vault and look), but my Model 22-something "1917" replica lets the cases head space on the mouth of the case.

July 21, 2014, 11:40 PM	#14
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	The one I had here didn't, reliably. Some rounds would, some wouldn't. Denis

July 24, 2014, 12:17 PM	#16
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Might look at the strain screw & the mainspring. Definitely something wrong if it's misfiring with clips. Denis

July 30, 2014, 12:04 PM	#18
mchapman Member Join Date: July 29, 2014 Posts: 38	I have a 625-8 JM in 4inch and a friend also has one just like mine, and neither one will shoot without moonclips. I haven't had the chance to fire a MDL.25 yet but would like to.