Jeff Cooper and double action............. - Page 5

G-Cym · January 8, 2007, 07:02 AM

Everyone, no matter how famous, from Cooper and Ayoob, to people on this forum, are only single individuals. Go with what type of firearm you are most comfortable with, and learn to use it safely and effectively. There is no "best" gun, trigger, or action for everyone, no matter what a famous person tells you.

cheygriz · January 8, 2007, 01:26 PM

Geez, G-Cym, I just Read Elmer Kieth's book on rifles. Do ya mean that I could actually kill a deer with something smaller than a 155MM Howitzer??? Isn't that blasphemy or something??

BobR. · January 8, 2007, 03:01 PM

G-Cym
Senior Member

Join Date: 09-27-2006
Posts: 100

Everyone, no matter how famous, from Cooper and Ayoob, to people on this forum, are only single individuals. Go with what type of firearm you are most comfortable with, and learn to use it safely and effectively. There is no "best" gun, trigger, or action for everyone, no matter what a famous person tells you.
--------
Yes, yes, ignore what people who have spent a life learning and working with firearms say. You have probably forgotten more than they know, so listen to what you know and to hell with the pros.

Good grief.
The ghist of your rhetoric is probably correct, but your mode of delivery is vacuous.
Bob

liliysdad · January 8, 2007, 05:12 PM

Im sorry, but placing Cooper and Ayoob in the same league is ridiculous. There are gunwriters, and then there are those who happen to write about guns, and there is a distinct difference. Sadly, the ranks of the latter are quickly thinning.

Cooper was a man who lived, and wrote about his experiences. These experiences often involved guns and combatives. Those like him were once the commonplace, with men like Skelton, Keith, and Askins. Their torch is being carried on by men like Clint Smith, Louis Awerbuck, and Pat Rogers.

Gunwriters are a dime a dozen. Many of them do teach combatives, but this is often based solely on theory and hypothesis. Their ranks swell with each graduation of the local community college journalism class.

G-Cym · January 9, 2007, 11:14 PM

Well BobR, if "Yes, yes, ignore what people who have spent a life learning and working with firearms say. You have probably forgotten more than they know, so listen to what you know and to hell with the pros" is what I meant to say, I would have said that. But I didn't. Notice how the words of your statement aren't the same as the ones in mine?

And it's not "probably" correct. It IS correct. Every person, no matter how experienced or famous, knows only themselves. No one can tell you what works best for you. So someone else's opinion on a certain trigger type really has no bearing on how it works for ME. I'll let my own preferences decide what I use, thanks.

BobR. · January 10, 2007, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Well BobR, if "Yes, yes, ignore what people who have spent a life learning and working with firearms say. You have probably forgotten more than they know, so listen to what you know and to hell with the pros" is what I meant to say, I would have said that. But I didn't. Notice how the words of your statement aren't the same as the ones in mine?

And it's not "probably" correct. It IS correct. Every person, no matter how experienced or famous, knows only themselves. No one can tell you what works best for you. So someone else's opinion on a certain trigger type really has no bearing on how it works for ME. I'll let my own preferences decide what I use, thanks.

My words differ because I did not quote you.
Your rhetorical statement said: "Go with what type of firearm you are most comfortable with, and learn to use it safely and effectively. There is no "best" gun, trigger, or action for everyone, no matter what a famous person tells you."; thererore it says far more than your paraphrase above.
It says "No one can tell you what works for you." which is why people, who are encouraged not to believe the pros, by people with far less experience, go into bear (of two and four legged variety) country under armed and end up bear food.
It is quite simple the professionals more often, than not, know what is best, and to encourage another to ignore it, is arrogant foolishness.

G-Cym · January 10, 2007, 01:19 AM

You really think that telling someone "it's OK to pick a pistol or trigger type that works best for you" is equivalent to telling them to walk into a deathtrap???

BobR. · January 10, 2007, 02:49 AM

I will make this simple, you are using an incredibly broad response to something that ABSOLUTELY cannot be generalized, as no one firearm is good for all situations.
Had you said, listen to what the professional, or very experienced people say about firearms for specific situations, then find which one works best for you, in THAT situation, we would not be having this exchange.
You did not, your incredibly broad response was like trying to kill swarms of black flies with a shotgun.
This thread was about Col. Cooper, and you said ignore him.
You have made your point, and I have made mine.
For me, this discussion is over.
Bob

G-Cym · January 10, 2007, 03:22 AM

This thread is about him saying DA/SA pistols are a solution looking for a problem. That is not right, and him being famous doesn't change that. His opinion is just his opinion. There are people out there that DA/SA triggers are perfect for. One persons opinion does not outweigh that. So my advice stands: Find what works best for you, and learn to use is safely and effectively. Don't let anyone tell you "you shouldn't even consider this type of firearm because I don't like it."

liliysdad · January 10, 2007, 06:58 AM

I contend that Col Cooper was right in saying that DA/SA triggers are an answer without a question. It is my belief that, while there is nothing inherently wrong with a guin with that method of operation, it is a lessr weapon than one with a consistent trigger pull.

January 8, 2007, 01:26 PM	#102
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	Geez, G-Cym, I just Read Elmer Kieth's book on rifles. Do ya mean that I could actually kill a deer with something smaller than a 155MM Howitzer??? Isn't that blasphemy or something?? __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

January 8, 2007, 03:01 PM	#103
BobR. Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2006 Posts: 70	G-Cym Senior Member Join Date: 09-27-2006 Posts: 100 Everyone, no matter how famous, from Cooper and Ayoob, to people on this forum, are only single individuals. Go with what type of firearm you are most comfortable with, and learn to use it safely and effectively. There is no "best" gun, trigger, or action for everyone, no matter what a famous person tells you. -------- Yes, yes, ignore what people who have spent a life learning and working with firearms say. You have probably forgotten more than they know, so listen to what you know and to hell with the pros. Good grief. The ghist of your rhetoric is probably correct, but your mode of delivery is vacuous. Bob Last edited by BobR.; January 8, 2007 at 05:53 PM.

January 8, 2007, 07:02 AM	#101
G-Cym Junior member Join Date: September 27, 2006 Posts: 366	Everyone, no matter how famous, from Cooper and Ayoob, to people on this forum, are only single individuals. Go with what type of firearm you are most comfortable with, and learn to use it safely and effectively. There is no "best" gun, trigger, or action for everyone, no matter what a famous person tells you.

January 8, 2007, 05:12 PM	#104
liliysdad Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2004 Posts: 1,145	Im sorry, but placing Cooper and Ayoob in the same league is ridiculous. There are gunwriters, and then there are those who happen to write about guns, and there is a distinct difference. Sadly, the ranks of the latter are quickly thinning. Cooper was a man who lived, and wrote about his experiences. These experiences often involved guns and combatives. Those like him were once the commonplace, with men like Skelton, Keith, and Askins. Their torch is being carried on by men like Clint Smith, Louis Awerbuck, and Pat Rogers. Gunwriters are a dime a dozen. Many of them do teach combatives, but this is often based solely on theory and hypothesis. Their ranks swell with each graduation of the local community college journalism class.

January 9, 2007, 11:14 PM	#105
G-Cym Junior member Join Date: September 27, 2006 Posts: 366	Well BobR, if "Yes, yes, ignore what people who have spent a life learning and working with firearms say. You have probably forgotten more than they know, so listen to what you know and to hell with the pros" is what I meant to say, I would have said that. But I didn't. Notice how the words of your statement aren't the same as the ones in mine? And it's not "probably" correct. It IS correct. Every person, no matter how experienced or famous, knows only themselves. No one can tell you what works best for you. So someone else's opinion on a certain trigger type really has no bearing on how it works for ME. I'll let my own preferences decide what I use, thanks.

January 10, 2007, 01:19 AM	#107
G-Cym Junior member Join Date: September 27, 2006 Posts: 366	You really think that telling someone "it's OK to pick a pistol or trigger type that works best for you" is equivalent to telling them to walk into a deathtrap???

January 10, 2007, 02:49 AM	#108
BobR. Junior member Join Date: December 22, 2006 Posts: 70	I will make this simple, you are using an incredibly broad response to something that ABSOLUTELY cannot be generalized, as no one firearm is good for all situations. Had you said, listen to what the professional, or very experienced people say about firearms for specific situations, then find which one works best for you, in THAT situation, we would not be having this exchange. You did not, your incredibly broad response was like trying to kill swarms of black flies with a shotgun. This thread was about Col. Cooper, and you said ignore him. You have made your point, and I have made mine. For me, this discussion is over. Bob

January 10, 2007, 03:22 AM	#109
G-Cym Junior member Join Date: September 27, 2006 Posts: 366	This thread is about him saying DA/SA pistols are a solution looking for a problem. That is not right, and him being famous doesn't change that. His opinion is just his opinion. There are people out there that DA/SA triggers are perfect for. One persons opinion does not outweigh that. So my advice stands: Find what works best for you, and learn to use is safely and effectively. Don't let anyone tell you "you shouldn't even consider this type of firearm because I don't like it."

January 10, 2007, 06:58 AM	#110
liliysdad Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2004 Posts: 1,145	I contend that Col Cooper was right in saying that DA/SA triggers are an answer without a question. It is my belief that, while there is nothing inherently wrong with a guin with that method of operation, it is a lessr weapon than one with a consistent trigger pull.