Lubricant Tests

[Clayton]

Bwahahahahaha!!!!!

Shouldn't you be in the lab or something??? I'm calling Mark...

Just kidding

Clay

[Clayton]

Good stuff from Pat:

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads...0&page=0#50931


I have very limited experience myself when it comes to operating in an arid, dusty and sandy climate, but I have looked into it a bit, and while some folks will use dry lubricants, from what I have discovered this is not the best solution. The best and most effective solution is more frequent maintenance. You often hear lubes touted as being effective at "not attracting nor holding onto debris" but while this may be true to an extent, the bottom line is the dirt and sand and grit will find its way into every oriface on you and your gear no matter what, and the only true way to deal with it is to clean your gear more frequently.

No matter what the environment - arid, artic, jungle - I think the same amount and type of lube can be used at the present time. In the past, due to the types of lubes available this was not the case, but I feel pretty confident that with modern lubricants like Weapon Shield CLP and Slip 2000 EWL, a standardized practice for every weapon type can be used to great effect.

Clay

[Clayton]

An interesting health study:

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...4?crawler=true

If you're looking for a very safe non toxic product to use, I would NOT recommend Eezox:

http://www.eezox.info/msds.html


Good info on Milcomm's stuff:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/mil-comm_users.htm

Good reviews:

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?p=436849

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=409621

[Clayton]

Interesting thread on Mobil 1:

http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/t...TOPIC_ID=13209

This prompted me to do a quick rust test last night, comparing Mobil 1 0W-40 to Break-Free CLP. I am astounded to say that after 18 hours, the Mobil 1 coated drill bit had one small spot of corrosion while the Break-Free coated one had several spots all over. The Mobil 1 also seems to bead water the same today as it did after first being applied. I also put the Mobil 1 container in the freezer along with a bottle of Militec-1 and Ballistol. After 16 hours of 0 degrees F, the Mobil 1 flowed the best, with almost no change at all in viscosity, while the other two were noticably thicker.

I will be doing more experiements on Mobil 1 in the future...

An old but informative thread:

http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic...7eae080d058bd2

Clay

[Paul McDonald]

Clayton any update?

[gcfennell]

Clay....what Paul said...any updates?

Best regards,
George

[Clayton]

Sorry for the delay, guys. I had a surprise visit from the in-laws to deal with so I haven't accomplished much, apart from some cold weather testing, with the help of my deep freezer. I'll get the pics and info up tonight.

Lube advice from the guys at Cylinder & Slide and D & L Sports -

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/cleaning.htm

http://www.dlsports.com/firearm_lubricant.html

Thanks for the interest,

Clay

[Clayton]

Cold Weather and it's effects on firearms:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...31-70/Appd.htm

http://www.backcountrysurvival.com/f...chniques.shtml

http://www.cprc.org/tr/tr-1997-01.pdf

http://www.flocknockers.com/archive/...p?t-46826.html

Clay

[Clayton]

Listed temperature ranges of various lubes tested -

Break-Free CLP -40 to +475 degrees F

Corrosion X -30 to +350 degrees F

Tetra Gun grease -100 to +750 degrees F

TW-25B -90 to +450 degrees F

Militec-1 -75 to +715 degrees F

G96 Gun Treatment -50 to +350 degrees F

George will have to enlighten me as to the listed temp range of Weapon Shield.

The funny thing about these temp ranges is that most if not all WILL NOT match your results in actual use. Break-Free CLP has caused functioning problems with some troops in Alaska in -30 degree F temps, for instance. Sometimes manufacturers will list the pour point as the lowest temp rating, sometimes they use some other method, but very rarely will they actually test their products on actual firearms. There are of course variables like the amount used, etc. that play a big effect with some products at a low temperature.

I stuffed several lubes into a deep freeze and left them there for two days, to see what effect -5 degrees F would have on these lubes.

G96 Gun Treatment - no change in viscosity.

Rem-Oil - no change in viscosity.

Weapon Shield CLP - thickened up some, but still pourable.

Militec-1 - thickened up quite a bit.

Mobil 1 0W-40 - no change in viscosity.

Corrosion-X - thickened up a small amount.

Mpro7/Hoppes Elite gun oil - thickened up a small amount.

Break-Free CLP - no change in viscosity.

Ballistol - thickened up some, but still pourable.

All of these lubes would work fine at zero degrees F provided you used them sparingly i.e. a thin coat. If you want something that will not change in consistency at all down to -40F I would go with G96 Gun Treatment.

High performance products like Weapon Shield and Militec-1 require only a very thin application to be effective, and can almost be wiped dry, except where more protection from corrosion is required. This compensates for the changes in viscosity to an extent, and it can be pointed out that a very thin coat of these lubes will probably work better than a heavy coat of Rem Oil or other lube that is a very thin petroleum based product.

I tried Ballistol, Mobil 1, and Weapon Shield out on two Glock pistols, cleaning and lubing them, then placing the pistols in my freezer for 24 hours. All three lubes worked perfectly - the pistols fed and functioned fine.

The biggest surprise for me was how Mobil 1 did not thicken at all. It held its viscosity better than Militec-1, which I thought would never happen. That's the second time I've been impressed with motor oil.

In the tests done back in 1996 by the RCMP, they found Eezox, G96 Gun Treatment, FP-10, and TW-25B to be the best lubes for low temperatures. I have no doubt these products would still work well, and I imagine that Weapon Shield would be on the list if tested by the RCMP today, as it would no doubt be a better performer than the older FP-10.

The biggest problem that occurs is when you take your weapons from a very cold environment to a very warm one, without an acclimation period. It is best to leave cold weapons outside when possible. The condensation will turn to ice and slush and this is what normally causes malfunctions in my experience. Just because the lube doesn't freeze doesn't mean the water inside the weapon won't.

Just my thoughts,

Clay

[gcfennell]

Hey Clayton

WS-CLP

Lower Limit -60 deg C
Upper Limit + 399 deg C

Even when vappored or burned off at "cookoff" temps, WS-CLP will continue to operate. We've set the handguards of AK-47's on fire, as you know and were still functioning without any problem as well as cooking off a few. The ignition temp of wood/book paper is Fahrenheit +451. Piece of cake.

[Clayton]

Outstanding, thanks George. Thats -76 degrees F for us hillbillies.

I have lots of tests planned for Weapon Shield, but I don't plan on setting anything on fire.

If anyone else has any comparisons or informal tests done on these or other lubes, please post them here. The more info the better.

Clay

[Clayton]

Dri-Slide has been reformulated -

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1247

I still prefer Weapon Shield - what can I say, I like it wet.

Lube 'em up to keep 'em runnin' -

http://www.militec.com/StarsStripes3_28.pdf

More good stuff from Pat -

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6443

Clay

[ZeSpectre]

Simply squirting oil on an arm to see how it functions is a pretty poor and meaning less test. It would be inconsistant and would not yield any conclusive data.

Funny thing is this is EXACTLY the sort of testing I want to see done (and am trying myself in another thread). Regular cleaning, regular use, "Real World" testing as it were.

for example, keeping the screw slots on the grips of my CCW SIG pistols rust free is as severe a challenge as anything I've seen a science lab come up with so far. If a product keeps those damned slots rust-free then it's doing a GOOD job of rust protection!

[Clayton]

An interesting note about Militec-1 - it seems that it has been used on some plastic components such as hinges on plastic cases, and has caused some failures. It appears that Militec-1 MAY not be compatible with some plastics. I believe it also MAY have caused some problems on M240B's. Apparently there are a few plastic components inside the stock/reciever. I've used it on Glocks with no problems, and as far as I knew it was compatable with virtually all plastics . Anyone know anything else about this?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...7/ai_n19171807

http://www.laniganperformance.com/faq.html

http://www.infantryassn.com/Bugler%2...er20032004.pdf

ZeSpectre - I've been using Weapon Shield CLP for two weeks now on my carry weapons with outstanding results. I would highly recommend it for SIGs, due to the corrosion issues with some of these weapons. The grip screws and magazines seem to be the most mentioned spots for corrosion.

Contrary to popular belief, Glocks can and will corrode. The small components as well as the slide rails on the frame are prone to rust when carried daily or exposed to the environment. No problems with Weapon Shield CLP.

Clay

[Tempest45]

Clayton, I appreciate the info you have amassed here, good stuff. But I think you are off a little on the viscosity part. ALL oils will have a very different viscosity from -5F to room temperature, though it may not be obvious to human senses. This can be seen in this chart for automotive oils:

Most gun oils are in the 5 to 10 wt catagory.

[Clayton]

Very true, I am speaking only of how the product looks and reacts when poured. Totally non-scientific, of course, but I am only looking for drastic differences. Mobil 1 for instance did not show any changes from 95 degrees to -5 degrees, as far as I could tell by sight and touch. I'm sure in the lab there was a big change on a molecular level.

Overall, I don't think viscosity is a good thing to focus on when it comes to gun lubes. Big difference between Rem Oil and wheel bearing grease, but both will work fine as gun lubes under normal temperatures, say 75 degrees F, as long as they are applied correctly. Extreme cold or extreme heat brings out the differences, but if you choose the right product for the job it will not be of concern.

We see this all the time on the forums when some knowledgable guys come out and say "use xxx grease on your AR" and then some other knowledgable guys come out and say "no, use xxx oil". Who's right? The bottom line of course is that both will work if applied correctly, and you take your AO into account.

Guys that favor grease may do so because they experienced failures from using a lousy oil, and guys that favor oil may do so because they may have seen someone apply too much grease which caused a problem, or they used an automotive type grease when it was 10 below outside and the gun wouldn't run at all. We are all victims of our experiences, and in some ways this is good, sometimes it is not.

When speaking of grease it must be pointed out there are two notable exceptions to the norm - Tetra Gun and Milcomm TW-25B. Both of these products have a much wider temperature range than the automotive type greases available. If I had the "damn it all, I'm using a grease no matter what" mindset, I would be using TW-25B.

The best thing to do in my opinion is use a modern (high tech if you will) product of medium viscosity that will work in a wide temperature range on all weapons systems - from miniguns and cannons to pistols and rifles - and this is where I start thinking of Weapon Shield CLP.

Thanks,

Clay

[Trapper L]

In the FWIW column, I've been using military grease MIL-G-46003 and LSA Medium Weapons oil MIL-L-46000A for years. I also don't have subzero temps to contend with, just incredible heat. I have no corrosion or rust on the parts that see these lubes and no wear either that is detectable like on a slide of a 1911- not even bright marks. For the outside finish I use a light coat of Havoline 5w-20. I haven't had rust on any weapon since using it. A qt of each of the above will set you back about 20 bucks total...........for the rest of your life. You won't ever need to buy any more. Apparently it doesn't go bad either. The grease I bought in 1965 and the weapons oil in 1970. Still have at least 75% in the containers.

[Survivor]

Hey guys,

I got the sample of Weapon Shield, have used it and think its great!! All these years I've been using Hoppe's gun oil, Outers gun oil, Rem Oil and now I'm seeing these posts talking about using motor oil. I assume the motor oil is used on the outside of the gun. Barrel? Is this used as a rust protectant after each cleaning or for long-term storage? On blued guns only? Is it okay to use on guns with polymer frames - not on the polymer I imagine but if it gets on the polymer could it harm it? Guess I've missed something along these 30 odd years of gun use.

[orionengnr]

While "George" is probably a stand-up guy, I must say that having the rep for one (and only one) product participating in, and constantly shilling his product in the midst of this "test" really casts a shadow of doubt over the objectivity of the testing.

If his product is truly the best, the testing will bear this out. The testimonials from his customers will do likewise. The appropriate thing (for him) to do would be to sit back and watch.

I have no vested interest in any of the products being tested. This is my observation only. But I will have a hard time accepting the results as objective, as at this point it seems as if the outcome is a foregone conclusion.

[Clayton]

Survivor - several folks use synthetic motor oil on firearms for lubrication. It works well and is cheap. Whether or not it is superior to products specifically designed for guns would be mainly up to you to try it on your own weapons under your circumstances and see if you like it. I prefer to use CLP's for the most part, but if you are looking for a good oil that is cheap, Mobil 1 0W-40 might be worth a try. As to whether or not it is safe on various surfaces, I have no idea (yet), and Mobil doesn't know either, since they don't recommend its use on firearms to begin with.

Orionengnr - Hmmm. I hope you are not referring to any of my posts or tests. If you reread everything carefully you will see many products listed in this thread, and in most of the threads that George has posted in in the past. There are lots of good products out there to use, and I have recommended several in this thread alone, along with providing links and info - that's the whole point of this thread BTW. I have no bias at all, except to good products, and the good companies that make them. I cannot help that this includes George Fennell and that he, as a free person thankfully chooses to post here and elsewhere to help others. George does not have to "shill" anything - his products sell themselves, through the many testemonials already posted on the web in reference to Weapon Shield alone.

I for one wished George would participate more, but he feels it lends a bad light on himself and others because of people like yourself that think that he is a con or that we are somehow paid off. The Weapon Shield I have for T&E? - I paid for it.

Best regards,

Clay

[DIXIEDOG]

"George does not have to "shill" anything - his products sell themselves"

That's for sure I received a free sample of Weapon Shield 2 weeks ago and after trying it on my new AR upper I ordered a 16 ounce bottle immediately. This product seems very good I prefer it over my old standby Break Free CLP because it cleans better and lubes as well or better. George will have me for a long term customer for sure this stuff seems to be all he says it is and more.

[Clayton]

Guys I apologize for being so busy lately, and I hope to be back on track by next week.

Forgot to mention - compatability tests are next. I will trying to determine if any of the products I have will harm or degrade plastics, composites, wood, or finishes. I will be using real firearms as well as household items. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.

All product reps are welcome to participate. Free samples are not required, but they are appreciated by all.

Thanks,

Clay

[JamesC2]

I use Gun Butter on all of mine. Didn't see that one listed anywhere. gunbutter.com It doesn't take much and makes everything easy to clean.

[rgates]

Clayton,

My CCW is a Makarov. I usually wipe it down with a silicon cloth after carry before storing it. When I holster and carry it, usually after about an hour when I pull it out the finish looks blotchy. The last time that I used Weapon Shield on it I used it on the outside of it as well. Wiped it back off well and stored it. Four days later I holstered it (in the same leather holster) and carried it. After wearing it for six hours I pulled it out and it still looked spotless. Apparently, I no longer need the silicon cloths. It appears Weapon Shield does a much better job of protecting the finish as well.