Help! My bullets are loose!

fed168 · September 1, 2002, 01:38 PM

I loaded up a bunch the other day and while checking the product, the bullets are loose. They spin in the case.
I loaded up 9mm with Speer cases (onced fired) and 115 gr Zero bullets. The press used is a Dillon 550.
I checked the press out, everything appears to be fine, aside from having to play with the shellplate screw since the shellplate wanted to bind every couple turns. The dies appear to be fine.
What options do I have? I would really hate to pull the bullets and start over.
Next Q: can I fire these rounds safely? They are loaded light, 4 grains of Titegroup, and will be shot out of a 92F. Will they be accurate or did I load the keyhole special?
Thanks.

C.R.Sam · September 1, 2002, 01:55 PM

Keyhole least of your concerns.
If real loose, easy to get major setback...
Hence, high pressure even from light charge.

Mike the bullets.
Mike the expander plug.
Sumpin very wrong.

Also...
Could be over belling.
Or over crimping.

Sam

**Mal H** · September 1, 2002, 02:11 PM

Sam's right - sumpin very wrong.

What type of bullet is a Zero bullet? hard lead, soft lead, jacketed, plated, tmj?

Pull one bullet and see what the bullet looks like. If it has a deep band where crimped, then you crimped too tight. Too loose a crimp usually won't let you twist bullet unless you belled way down in the case.

See if you can push a bullet into the case.

If you wish you can fire them one at a time, no exceptions. The small amount of powder can't protect you from an explosion if a bullet in the mag goes into deep cover from recoil.

WESHOOT2 · September 1, 2002, 08:44 PM

Did your sizer die loosen?

Did you over-crimp?

Are your bullets .354" or better?

What OAL was your intention?

labgrade · September 1, 2002, 11:24 PM

I agree with the aboves & a quick way to diagnose is to check you bullet tension right after seating (to see if it's being held firmly by just the neck tension) & then do your normal crimp operation & check again.

If you're doing the seat/crimp in one operation, start over. Unscrew your seater plug all the way. Screw down your crimp till it just touches the case & then back it off 1/4 turn or so. Lock that down & then reset your seater plug.

Try that to see if the problem goes away. You'll still have to crimp though, but that's for after finding out what's wrong.

If this doesn't fix it, you've a big discrepancy between expander plug & bullet diameter.

Need to get this sorted out or you're wasting time making junk.

Although not a fix, but wondering if one of those full-length factory dies would squeeze these into some shape? Just curious as I've never used 'em & hmmmm re to what extent they'll "make things better ...."

fed168 · September 2, 2002, 12:37 AM

Mal, I checked a couple bullets I pulled and there is a deep band around the bottom of the bullet. To get it right, if I crimp it too tight the bullet can spin inside the case? I think I have found the problem.
I tried some other cases to load up dummies. Adjusted the powder die up a bit, and the bullet sits on the mouth but does not easily fall in. Seats as normal far as I can tell (it's late and I'm tired, so done for the night).
The bullets I am using are 115 FMJs, from the Zero Co. in Alabama. I have already loaded these in the past and they have given me no problems, in fact they have done me right for practice ammo.
Thanks guys for the help, I'll probably be calling again.

fed168 · September 2, 2002, 12:48 AM

Ok call me crazy. I just went and adjusted the seating die, ran a couple through it, and the bullets do not spin. At least I can't get them too by hand as the others. Am I good to shoot these now, and do I need to taper crimp them, as this is the last stage on the press?
ARRRGGGHHH!

WESHOOT2 · September 2, 2002, 01:33 AM

Finish with gentle crimp, and confirm OAL and bullet securing.

Then go blastin'!

fed168 · September 2, 2002, 02:57 PM

Ok, think the problem is fixed. A slight taper crimp, and the rounds come out to spec on the mike.

labgrade · September 2, 2002, 06:00 PM

Good deal! Taper crimp just enough to remove any belling & then a hair more - not much.

C.R.Sam · September 2, 2002, 06:51 PM

Nor rain nor sleet nor dark of night...
Shall stay the TFLers from problem solving.

Sam

**Mal H** · September 2, 2002, 07:54 PM

Looks like you're good to go, fed168. The description sounded like a big bad crimp deforming the bullet to me.

Whatcha gonna do with the rounds with spinny bullets? How many are there?

labgrade · September 2, 2002, 10:10 PM

Psst. Pull 'em & resize. Unless really, really mooshed (yes, a techy term), resizing usually brings 'em back to life.

Worst case (pun intended), you wasted a bit of your time.

BTW, watch those primers! if they're live. Wear safety goggles (anyway) & g-e-n-t-l-y run 'em through the sizer & pop 'em out to start over - OR - remove decap pin & just resize.

fed168 · September 3, 2002, 12:04 AM

I adjusted the seater and have reseated the bullets. They were too long to begin with, and after reseating them and doing the crimp things began to work out.
So far I have lost three to mooshing. No amount of work can salvage them. Oh well.
Fixed 300, gonna shoot them Friday and see. Let the others rest until I know that these work.
Mal, I noticed the problem after I loaded up 500 rounds. I do a check on my loads when they are done. In fact, just about every other round that was reseated was rechecked, checked again, ad nauseum.
Think I am out of the woods.

labgrade · September 3, 2002, 12:12 AM

3 (or so) out 500's not too bad in the grand scheme of things.

Good habit to get into is during first set-up = check 'em all. After that - do a every 25 or so until you get the deal down pat.

When first starting crank out 9mm on a Dillon (my first progressive after 35+ years on a single stage), I "lost" about 1% to not remembering to seat a new primer. Duh!

Just one of those things ....

fed168 · September 7, 2002, 03:50 AM

Ok, I finally got out to shoot them today. Everything worked out fine, and had a good session with them. No feeding problems, accuracy problems, back to the press.

September 1, 2002, 01:38 PM	#1
fed168 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2000 Posts: 1,040	Help! My bullets are loose! I loaded up a bunch the other day and while checking the product, the bullets are loose. They spin in the case. I loaded up 9mm with Speer cases (onced fired) and 115 gr Zero bullets. The press used is a Dillon 550. I checked the press out, everything appears to be fine, aside from having to play with the shellplate screw since the shellplate wanted to bind every couple turns. The dies appear to be fine. What options do I have? I would really hate to pull the bullets and start over. Next Q: can I fire these rounds safely? They are loaded light, 4 grains of Titegroup, and will be shot out of a 92F. Will they be accurate or did I load the keyhole special? Thanks.

September 1, 2002, 08:44 PM	#4
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	BAD MOJO Did your sizer die loosen? Did you over-crimp? Are your bullets .354" or better? What OAL was your intention? __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 2, 2002, 01:33 AM	#8
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	SOON.......... Finish with gentle crimp, and confirm OAL and bullet securing. Then go blastin'! __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 1, 2002, 01:55 PM	#2
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Keyhole least of your concerns. If real loose, easy to get major setback... Hence, high pressure even from light charge. Mike the bullets. Mike the expander plug. Sumpin very wrong. Also... Could be over belling. Or over crimping. Sam

September 1, 2002, 02:11 PM	#3
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,949	Sam's right - sumpin very wrong. What type of bullet is a Zero bullet? hard lead, soft lead, jacketed, plated, tmj? Pull one bullet and see what the bullet looks like. If it has a deep band where crimped, then you crimped too tight. Too loose a crimp usually won't let you twist bullet unless you belled way down in the case. See if you can push a bullet into the case. If you wish you can fire them one at a time, no exceptions. The small amount of powder can't protect you from an explosion if a bullet in the mag goes into deep cover from recoil.

September 1, 2002, 11:24 PM	#5
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	I agree with the aboves & a quick way to diagnose is to check you bullet tension right after seating (to see if it's being held firmly by just the neck tension) & then do your normal crimp operation & check again. If you're doing the seat/crimp in one operation, start over. Unscrew your seater plug all the way. Screw down your crimp till it just touches the case & then back it off 1/4 turn or so. Lock that down & then reset your seater plug. Try that to see if the problem goes away. You'll still have to crimp though, but that's for after finding out what's wrong. If this doesn't fix it, you've a big discrepancy between expander plug & bullet diameter. Need to get this sorted out or you're wasting time making junk. Although not a fix, but wondering if one of those full-length factory dies would squeeze these into some shape? Just curious as I've never used 'em & hmmmm re to what extent they'll "make things better ...."

September 2, 2002, 12:37 AM	#6
fed168 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2000 Posts: 1,040	Mal, I checked a couple bullets I pulled and there is a deep band around the bottom of the bullet. To get it right, if I crimp it too tight the bullet can spin inside the case? I think I have found the problem. I tried some other cases to load up dummies. Adjusted the powder die up a bit, and the bullet sits on the mouth but does not easily fall in. Seats as normal far as I can tell (it's late and I'm tired, so done for the night). The bullets I am using are 115 FMJs, from the Zero Co. in Alabama. I have already loaded these in the past and they have given me no problems, in fact they have done me right for practice ammo. Thanks guys for the help, I'll probably be calling again.

September 2, 2002, 12:48 AM	#7
fed168 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2000 Posts: 1,040	Ok call me crazy. I just went and adjusted the seating die, ran a couple through it, and the bullets do not spin. At least I can't get them too by hand as the others. Am I good to shoot these now, and do I need to taper crimp them, as this is the last stage on the press? ARRRGGGHHH!

September 2, 2002, 02:57 PM	#9
fed168 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2000 Posts: 1,040	Ok, think the problem is fixed. A slight taper crimp, and the rounds come out to spec on the mike.

September 2, 2002, 06:00 PM	#10
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Good deal! Taper crimp just enough to remove any belling & then a hair more - not much.

September 2, 2002, 06:51 PM	#11
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Nor rain nor sleet nor dark of night... Shall stay the TFLers from problem solving. Sam

September 2, 2002, 07:54 PM	#12
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,949	Looks like you're good to go, fed168. The description sounded like a big bad crimp deforming the bullet to me. Whatcha gonna do with the rounds with spinny bullets? How many are there?

September 2, 2002, 10:10 PM	#13
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Psst. Pull 'em & resize. Unless really, really mooshed (yes, a techy term), resizing usually brings 'em back to life. Worst case (pun intended), you wasted a bit of your time. BTW, watch those primers! if they're live. Wear safety goggles (anyway) & g-e-n-t-l-y run 'em through the sizer & pop 'em out to start over - OR - remove decap pin & just resize.

September 3, 2002, 12:04 AM	#14
fed168 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2000 Posts: 1,040	I adjusted the seater and have reseated the bullets. They were too long to begin with, and after reseating them and doing the crimp things began to work out. So far I have lost three to mooshing. No amount of work can salvage them. Oh well. Fixed 300, gonna shoot them Friday and see. Let the others rest until I know that these work. Mal, I noticed the problem after I loaded up 500 rounds. I do a check on my loads when they are done. In fact, just about every other round that was reseated was rechecked, checked again, ad nauseum. Think I am out of the woods.

September 3, 2002, 12:12 AM	#15
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	3 (or so) out 500's not too bad in the grand scheme of things. Good habit to get into is during first set-up = check 'em all. After that - do a every 25 or so until you get the deal down pat. When first starting crank out 9mm on a Dillon (my first progressive after 35+ years on a single stage), I "lost" about 1% to not remembering to seat a new primer. Duh! Just one of those things ....

September 7, 2002, 03:50 AM	#16
fed168 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2000 Posts: 1,040	Ok, I finally got out to shoot them today. Everything worked out fine, and had a good session with them. No feeding problems, accuracy problems, back to the press.