Active school shooter *drill* video

Maximus856 · May 9, 2012, 08:54 PM

A guy on a jeep forum was talking about how his county was going to do a drill for an active shooter in a school. He found a video from it and posted it up.

I'm not LEO, so I do not know their procedures. However, it seems like this could use some pretty heavy tweaking. For example, putting your muzzle up past a door that swings towards you is probably a bad idea. Maybe he was trying to get a visual through the window, but a bit more standoff IMO would of been more beneficial to his own safety. If the door swung the other way, I wouldnt see as much of a problem with this. Two: What are the other two doing on the opposite side. Maybe they are 'gaffing' this off, but their weapons are nowhere near the ready. Interlocking fields of fire are not just for a battlefield.. It would not be hard for a second shooter (if your told there is one, plan for two, if theres two plan for three) to swing that door open, taking out the negotiator AND putting his muzzle towards the two LEO's on the left, while number one shooter opens up. Sure, the other LEO's could start shooting, but this is in a school and that is probably not a good place to be shooting through doors at targets you probably cannot see.

Maybe it's the internet commando in me, but I am curious to see what others think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd-Yr...layer_embedded

Nanuk · May 10, 2012, 10:38 AM

Your observations are right on. I would have rigged a rope to the door handles to enable the others to pop the doors open.

It looked to me more of a hostage situation than an active shooter. In an active shooter there should be no negotiation, engage and destroy.

PawPaw · May 10, 2012, 03:53 PM

It didn't look like an active shooter to me either. No one was actively shooting.

I've been a Resource Officer in a high school for the past nine years and that looks more like a barricaded subject drill than an active shooter, but they can change from one to the other in a flash. From the perspective of the camera, we can't tell if he has students behind the door with him, or if he's alone, but they're talking about getting him something to drink, so it looks like the negotiators are trying to establish rapport.

Quote:

Your observations are right on. I would have rigged a rope to the door handles to enable the others to pop the doors open.

That's assuming you had a rope to rig. How many folks carry rope with them every day? Also notice, these are uniformed cops. I'm sure that the high-speed, low-drag SWAT boys are on the way with all manner of neat toys.

At that stage of the scenario, it's the negotiators job to bore him to the point where he surrenders out of sheer mind-numbing frustration.

aparootsa · May 10, 2012, 04:51 PM

Not sure if there's enough video there to really know what's going on. Every situation, real or drill, has a beginning somewhere, and the video starts far past that. We can't know how long the negotiations have gone on at this point, and that really makes a difference as far as what's appropriate. I do agree on the original point about standing clear of the door and the possibly unarmed officers on the other side... but all in all we need more info.

One thing I'm sure of, though... good that they're at least practicing.

Maximus856 · May 10, 2012, 07:55 PM

You guys are right that it's in negotiations and the shooter is no longer 'actively shooting.' However, negotiations with a barricaded shooter may happen after he's already been shooting, or before he decides too. Whether or not he has fired, is besides the point. If your life or others are on the line, you still need to hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Theres another video of them moving back possibly letting the shooter out. There approach was a bit better, as they kept each other covered as they moved back. The only thing I would suggest is if they are on the stairs to use the stairs as possible cover for when he does come out. Maybe this would scare the shooter, but I don't know much about the psycology of all that...I would also imagine he has body armor of sorts on. Squaring up to the shooter may be a better idea, but I don't know the level of body armor so thats just a guess. Does anyone have an opinion on telling the shooter how many officers are out there? Military training tells me to not let the true numbers of your force be known, however I realize that a shooter/hostage situation in a school is a completely different situation.

I do however agree that it's good to see them practicing. In the second video there is a team behind them with clipboards, so hopefully the feedback is being provided to them and they can continue to build upon them. I didn't post this up to bash the LEO's. I think it's great what they are doing and maybe this is something that others on here may build upon as well.

-Max.

Heres some more videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrkLf...feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG3p0...feature=relmfu

Maximus856 · May 10, 2012, 08:03 PM

Here is another one. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast I guess

The only thing I have to say about this is that if you are going to stop your stack while others clear out a hall/class (the two that went to the right), it's probably not a good idea to stop where the shooters bullets are going to fly. There are two perfectly good walls on each side to post up on until the others return, and as they return at least one of them should of had their firearm oriented towards where ever the smaller search team is returning from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrZyL...feature=relmfu

May 9, 2012, 08:54 PM	#1
Maximus856 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2006 Location: PA Posts: 547	*Active school shooter drill* video** A guy on a jeep forum was talking about how his county was going to do a drill for an active shooter in a school. He found a video from it and posted it up. I'm not LEO, so I do not know their procedures. However, it seems like this could use some pretty heavy tweaking. For example, putting your muzzle up past a door that swings towards you is probably a bad idea. Maybe he was trying to get a visual through the window, but a bit more standoff IMO would of been more beneficial to his own safety. If the door swung the other way, I wouldnt see as much of a problem with this. Two: What are the other two doing on the opposite side. Maybe they are 'gaffing' this off, but their weapons are nowhere near the ready. Interlocking fields of fire are not just for a battlefield.. It would not be hard for a second shooter (if your told there is one, plan for two, if theres two plan for three) to swing that door open, taking out the negotiator AND putting his muzzle towards the two LEO's on the left, while number one shooter opens up. Sure, the other LEO's could start shooting, but this is in a school and that is probably not a good place to be shooting through doors at targets you probably cannot see. Maybe it's the internet commando in me, but I am curious to see what others think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd-Yr...layer_embedded __________________ "In 1968 for my senior field trip I was sent to RVN" -Hunter Customs "It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

May 10, 2012, 10:38 AM	#2
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	Your observations are right on. I would have rigged a rope to the door handles to enable the others to pop the doors open. It looked to me more of a hostage situation than an active shooter. In an active shooter there should be no negotiation, engage and destroy. __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

May 10, 2012, 07:55 PM	#5
Maximus856 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2006 Location: PA Posts: 547	You guys are right that it's in negotiations and the shooter is no longer 'actively shooting.' However, negotiations with a barricaded shooter may happen after he's already been shooting, or before he decides too. Whether or not he has fired, is besides the point. If your life or others are on the line, you still need to hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Theres another video of them moving back possibly letting the shooter out. There approach was a bit better, as they kept each other covered as they moved back. The only thing I would suggest is if they are on the stairs to use the stairs as possible cover for when he does come out. Maybe this would scare the shooter, but I don't know much about the psycology of all that...I would also imagine he has body armor of sorts on. Squaring up to the shooter may be a better idea, but I don't know the level of body armor so thats just a guess. Does anyone have an opinion on telling the shooter how many officers are out there? Military training tells me to not let the true numbers of your force be known, however I realize that a shooter/hostage situation in a school is a completely different situation. I do however agree that it's good to see them practicing. In the second video there is a team behind them with clipboards, so hopefully the feedback is being provided to them and they can continue to build upon them. I didn't post this up to bash the LEO's. I think it's great what they are doing and maybe this is something that others on here may build upon as well. -Max. Heres some more videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrkLf...feature=relmfu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG3p0...feature=relmfu __________________ "In 1968 for my senior field trip I was sent to RVN" -Hunter Customs "It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger." -Dwight D. Eisenhower Last edited by Maximus856; May 10, 2012 at 08:00 PM.

May 10, 2012, 08:03 PM	#6
Maximus856 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2006 Location: PA Posts: 547	Here is another one. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast I guess The only thing I have to say about this is that if you are going to stop your stack while others clear out a hall/class (the two that went to the right), it's probably not a good idea to stop where the shooters bullets are going to fly. There are two perfectly good walls on each side to post up on until the others return, and as they return at least one of them should of had their firearm oriented towards where ever the smaller search team is returning from. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrZyL...feature=relmfu __________________ "In 1968 for my senior field trip I was sent to RVN" -Hunter Customs "It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

May 10, 2012, 04:51 PM	#4
aparootsa Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Posts: 72	Not sure if there's enough video there to really know what's going on. Every situation, real or drill, has a beginning somewhere, and the video starts far past that. We can't know how long the negotiations have gone on at this point, and that really makes a difference as far as what's appropriate. I do agree on the original point about standing clear of the door and the possibly unarmed officers on the other side... but all in all we need more info. One thing I'm sure of, though... good that they're at least practicing.