Is it possible to wear out a .223 die?

[iraiam]

I've been reloading 223/.5.56 for many years, I think I'm beginning to have an issue with my sizing die for my Dillon 550B.

I believe it's a standard FL sizing die, without any coatings and not carbide, I've reloaded somewhere between 50K and 60K rounds with it, now it seems like the sized cases are just a wee bit big.

I tried to buy a new die yesterday but could not find one on a shelf, my reloads now seem a little snug in a bolt action .223 and my Colt Match AR. my other ARs seem fine with it.

I did try my old 223 trim die though, the already sized cases must be lubed and are sized smaller yet at the lower part of the case when they are put in the trim die, I haven't used this trim die in a long time, but I don't remember this to be the case.

[steve4102]

Did you try screwing the die into the press a 1/16-1/8 turn?

[iraiam]

Did you try screwing the die into the press a 1/16-1/8 turn?

Yes, but all it did was add more pressure on the shell plate in the Dillon press, I also took the die out of the Dillon and installed it in my Rock Chucker and re sized a few cases, same result. In the single stage, I set it up for a stronger cam over action to be sure I was getting all I could.

[4runnerman]

you are a head of me. I have a lee set.I have loaded over 17000 rounds and I also sell 223 brass. I know I have resized over 100,000 and it is still clicking along fine. I do tear it apart every 1000 rounds and clean it up good,but other thann that,nothing.

Ok here is a dumb idea, Maybe your shell holder is wore out. try a new one.

[jaguarxk120]

Yes it is possible to wear a die out. The bodies of the 223 shells can and do carry dirt and oxidation. Over time the inside of the die body will be lapped to a greater diameter, even with proper lube.

[reynolds357]

You can eventually wear out an anvil with a rubber hammer. Possible? yes. Probable? No.

[Revoltella]

Call Dillon. They'll probably just send you a new one.

[chiefr]

Today 11:21 AM
jaguarxk120 posted

Yes it is possible to wear a die out. The bodies of the 223 shells can and do carry dirt and oxidation. Over time the inside of the die body will be lapped to a greater diameter, even with proper lube.



I agree. Dies can be worn out or damaged from fine debris attached to the brass case, especially if the debris is harder than the steel used in the die.
There are reloaders out there believe it or not, who do not clean their brass.

[Nick_C_S]

Absolutely positively yes. You can wear out a die. It is technically a "wear item," like breaks, clutch, tires, that sort of thing.

Albeit the wear is slow - very slow. But it is wear none-the-less.

[dahermit]

I envision cases that have been loaded and fired many, many times becoming springy from work hardening. I am not saying that this is what is happening in your situation. But, to eliminate that as a possibility, if your cases have been cycled many times, size a couple of new brass cases and see if the die is sizing them down as it should. If the problem remains, even with the new cases, then it is likely the die.

[wncchester]

Sure dies wear out, even carbide sizers eventually wear out but in 45+ years of reloading I've never seen it done. I've read that life expectancy for steel sizer dies is about 250-300 thousand rounds, carbide about tripples that.

The idea of oxidized brass wearing down a case hardened steel die is amusing. Try rubbing a file down with a strip of oxidized brass and see what effect you'll have. What happens when a case with sand particles gets pushed into a die is the particals get smushed into the softer metal, not the other way 'round. It's hard to the point of impossible to scratch a sizer even with a file, try it on the outside of a die and you'll see for yourself.

What makes most people think they have a "scratched" die is failure to properly lube the cases and the dry brass galls in small bits onto the harder metal as firmly as if welded in place! The galled brass can easily be lapped out and the die restored to factory condition if you know what you're doing.

[dahermit]

What happens when a case with sand particles gets pushed into a die is the particals get smushed into the softer metal, not the other way 'round.

I beg to differ. What you state is logical and as a retired machinist, I cannot find fault with your logic. However, when I was in my early twenties, I had a P38 and shot that 9MM in the sand dunes. To make a long story short, the brass picked-up some sand and I found that the dies (RCBS steel), were scratching the rounds as they were sized. I spun either steel wool or crocus cloth (don't remember which) in the die, and it removed the problem.
The brass was not, or had ever been sized dry. It was always rolled on a pad with that nasty, sticky RCBS case lube.
Therefore, although it should not happen as you say, something did happen in that instance.

[LSU]

Two suggestions that have already been mentioned:

1. I would call Dillon and tell the service tech your problem. I think the tech will tell you to try taking your die apart and cleaning it (you might have already done this) or Dillon will ship you a new die.

I think it is possible to damage (as opposed to wear out) a die and maybe that is what has happened.

Give us an update when you find out what the problem is.

Thanks.

[iraiam]

Additional info:

Screwing the die farther down also resulted in what I consider way too much shoulder setback. After setting up with the a slight cam over from the FL re-size die, the cartridge headspace measures 1.445", a full .015" shorter than my usual 1.460 which I came to a long time ago by measuring numerous brands of factory ammunition.

I rechecked that measurement against several on hand ammo types and got the following measurements. These measurements are from the .330" datum on the shoulder to the base of the cartridge. I measured 5 rounds of each type.

LC XM855: 1.455
LC XM193: 1.456
CBC 5.56X45 62 gr fmj: 1.460
Amarican Eagle AR .223 55gr. FMJ: 1.460
Tula .223 62 gr HP: 1.459
Tula .223 55 gr FMJ: 1.459
Hornaday 5.56X45 75 gr superformance match: 1.461

I put my Dillon FL sizing die back to where it was, to re-size to a proper cartridge head space and I'm back to original problem, the cases are just a wee bit big down toward the base, although it's only a minor issue in 2 out of several rifles.

When the die is set for a shoulder setback of just a few thousands, in this case about .004-.005 to get back to 1.460 length, I cannot feel any cam over on the press, the bottom of the die just touches the shell plate.

[Jimro]

If you think that grit on brass will not mar steel, I recommend taking a piece of brass and kicking it around in some sand for a while, then rubbing it along the blued steel of your nicest rifle.

The ancient Egyptians had their slaves use copper bands and sand to cut blocks of granite. The silica and aluminum oxides in the sand would embed into the copper, creating teath, which would eat away at the harder granite.

A lead lap for a rifle bore is much softer than the barrel steel, but it works the same way, polishing compound gets embedded into the soft metal and acts as teath to wear the steel smooth.

So yes, dirty brass can lap steel.

Jimro