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Old October 17, 2008, 11:08 PM   #51
rn22723
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You create a bomb when enclosing primers in a metal ammo can. Not a bright idea. Nevertheless, MN has laws about storing more then 10K of primers in a home. I may be wise to just keep the primers in the orginal shipping sleeve in a cool and dry place. Most of the other states have adopted the NFPA codes with respect to home storage etc of amounts and such. Check your home state...this is MN Law!

Quote:
7500.3600 SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION PRIMERS.
Subpart 1.Restricted scope.This section does not apply to the transportation of small arms ammunition primers governed by Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, parts 100 to 199 (1983).

Subp. 2.Transportation and storage.Small arms ammunition primers must not be transported or stored except in the original shipping container approved by the Department of Transportation in Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, parts 100 to 199 (1983).

Subp. 3.Truck or rail transportation.Truck or rail transportation of small arms ammunition primers must comply with the Department of Transportation regulations in Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, parts 100 to 199 (1983).

Subp. 4.Quantity limitations.Not more than 25,000 small arms ammunition primers may be transported in a passenger vehicle.

Not more than 10,000 small arms ammunition primers may be stored in residences.

Not more than 10,000 small arms ammunition primers may be displayed in commercial establishments.

Subp. 5.Separate storage.Small arms ammunition primers must be separated from flammable liquids, flammable solids as classified by the Department of Transportation in Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, parts 100 to 199 (1983), and oxidizing materials by a fire-resistive wall of one-hour rating or by a distance of 25 feet.

Subp. 6.Storage of large quantities.Quantities of small arms ammunition primers in excess of 1,000,000 must be stored in magazines in accordance with part 7500.0800.

Statutory Authority: MS s 299F.71 to 299F.83

History: 11 SR 6

Posted:July 26, 2007
And, the same advice for powder a cood dry place not subject to extremes.....

Quote:
7500.3500 SMOKELESS PROPELLANTS.
Subpart 1.Restricted scope.This part does not apply to the transportation of smokeless propellants governed by Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, parts 100 to 199 (1983).

Subp. 1a.Approved container required.Smokeless propellants must be stored in shipping containers approved by the Department of Transportation in Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, parts 100 to 199 (1983).

Subp. 1b.Transportation of certain quantities.Quantities of smokeless propellants of 25 pounds or less in shipping containers approved by the Department of Transportation in Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, parts 100 to 199 (1983), may be transported in a passenger vehicle.

Quantities in excess of 25 pounds but not exceeding 50 pounds that are transported in a passenger vehicle must be in a portable magazine having wooden walls of at least one-inch nominal thickness.

Transportation of quantities in excess of 50 pounds is prohibited in vehicles transporting passengers.

Transportation of quantities in excess of 50 pounds in other than passenger vehicles must comply with Department of Transportation regulations in Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, parts 100 to 199 (1983). In addition, warning placards must be prominently displayed when more than 250 pounds are being transported.

Subp. 2.Storage of propellants intended for personal use.Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not to exceed 20 pounds may be stored in residences. Quantities in excess of 20 but not exceeding 50 pounds must be stored in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least one-inch nominal thickness.

Subp. 3.Commercial displays and stocks.Not more than 20 pounds of smokeless propellants, in containers of one-pound maximum capacity, may be displayed in commercial establishments. Commercial stocks of smokeless propellants greater than 20 pounds but not more than 100 pounds must be stored in approved wooden boxes having walls of at least one-inch nominal thickness. Not more than 50 pounds are permitted in any one box.

Commercial stocks in quantities not to exceed 750 pounds must be stored in storage cabinets having wooden walls of at least one-inch nominal thickness. Not more than 400 pounds are permitted in any one cabinet.

Subp. 4.Quantities over 750 pounds.Quantities in excess of 750 pounds must be stored in magazines constructed and located as specified in part 7500.0800.

Statutory Authority: MS s 299F.71 to 299F.83

History: 11 SR 6

Posted:July 26, 2007

Last edited by rn22723; October 18, 2008 at 09:04 AM.
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Old October 18, 2008, 09:07 AM   #52
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NFPA Guidelines pretty much say it all. So GAME SET and MATCH! Folks be smart! Follow the law and guidelines! Be a safe reloader!

Quote:
Along with the responsibilities of proper storage and handling of smokeless propellants, comes an equal consideration, and that is the storage and handling of modern sporting ammunition primers. While these guidelines are available several places on the web, we have chosen to include them here as well for your reference, and your safety.


Sporting Ammunition Primers
Properties, Handling & Storage for Handloading

Prepared by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute based upon information currently available to it, this information is furnished to interested persons as a courtesy and in the interests of safety. It is not intended to be comprehensive; it does not modify or replace safety suggestions, standards, or regulations made by designated authorities, public or private. It is subject to revisions as additional knowledge and experience are gained. SAAMI expressly disclaims any warranty, obligation, or liability whatsoever in connection with the information contained herein or its use.

Ammunition handloading has become increasingly popular in recent years. This information summarizes information that is generally known by an experienced handloader, and provides general information to persons interested in handloading. It discusses the properties of sporting ammunition primers and offers recommendations for their safe use, handling and storage.

This information is intended only to increase the knowledge of all concerned individuals and groups regarding sporting ammunition primers. The statements made do not supersede local, state or Federal regulations. Proper authorities should be consulted on regulations for storage, transportation, and use of sporting ammunition primers in each specific community. Other information on smokeless powder and sporting ammunition are available.

Properties of Primers

Sporting ammunition primers contain carefully engineered mixtures of chemical ingredients. Primers are designed to explode and produce the heat, gas and hot particles necessary to ignite the propellant powders in sporting ammunition when the firing pin of a firearm strikes them properly.

Properties of particular importance to the dealer and user of primers are as follows:

1. Primers may explode if subjected to mishandling. Explosions may be caused by friction and by percussion, such as hammering, pounding, dropping or bullet impact. Heating by fire, static electricity, sparks, hot tobacco ashes, or other unspecified abuses may also cause primers to explode.

2. If primers are loose or in bulk, having contact one with another, one primer exploding can, and usually will, cause a violent, sympathetic explosion of all primers so situated. In other words, one primer exploding for any reason under these circumstances will normally cause all of the primers to explode in one violent blast.

3. Primers may "dust." Small particles of priming compound may separate from the primers in the form of dust, especially when they are subjected to shaking or jolting. Accumulation of this dust in primer feed tubes, loading machines, and loading areas is extremely hazardous as it might cause explosions or fires.

4. Primers exposed to water or any organic solvent, such as paint thinner, gasoline, kerosene, oil, grease, etc. may deteriorate, resulting in misfires or poor ignition.

5. Modern sporting ammunition primers will not absorb moisture under normal or even severe conditions of atmospheric humidity. There is no advantage to be gained from air-tight containers. The factory containers in which they are packaged need only normal conditions of storage. They should be kept dry and not exposed to high temperatures (in excess of 150( F). If exposed to wet conditions or high temperatures, they may deteriorate, yielding misfires or poor ignition of the propellant powder.

Handling of Primers

Primers do explode. This is the purpose for which they have been designed. They demand the respect and careful handling due any device containing explosives.

Sporting Ammunition and the Firefighter, a video produced by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute, analyzes the characteristics associated with small arms ammunition when it is subjected to severe impact and fire. When a primer ignites, it causes the propellant to burn, which creates gases which, when under pressure in a firearm, send the bullet down the barrel. Pressure created by the propellant being burned is what discharges a bullet. As such, loose ammunition in a fire does not result in bullets being discharged because the propellant is not burning under pressure. The video, which has been widely circulated to fire departments, concludes that while ammunition produces a popping sound when it burns, there is no mass detonation of the ammunition, any projectiles are of low velocity, and there is no threat to firefighters in their standard turn-out gear.

Primers should never be handled, used, or stored in bulk, since primers in bulk can explode simultaneously. The placing of primers in tubes or columns, or using other bulk systems in which the explosion of any one primer may cause the explosion of all others, is a potentially hazardous condition. The manufacturers of primers do not recommend the use of primer feeds for reloading unless adequate protection from the hazard of explosion is provided. It is the responsibility of the manufacturers of primer handling systems to provide safety and protective features for their equipment. It is recommended that primers be handled individually unless adequate safeguards are provided and used.

Care must always be exercised in any handloading operation to avoid rough handling and undue force where a primer is involved, since the primer may fire. Any malfunction of equipment must be cleared with extreme caution. The decapping of shells or cases containing live primers is to be avoided.

Precautions should be taken to avoid buildup of static electricity on the person when handling primers or conducting handloading procedures. Loading equipment should be electrically grounded.

All loading equipment and adjacent areas must be kept scrupulously clean and free of primer dust and powder accumulations. Work areas and loading equipment must be cleaned by wiping with a damp cloth or sponge which should be thoroughly rinsed after each use. Fired primers, primer cups, anvils, or other bits of hard, abrasive material are a hazard during loading operation as contact with them may cause primers to fire.

Accidentally spilled primers should be picked up immediately as they may explode when stepped upon.

An absolute minimum of primers should be maintained at the loading operation. Only one packing tray at a time should be removed from the primer storage.

When a priming operation is completed, any remaining primers should be returned to the package in which they were originally contained. These packages have been specifically designed to protect primers during shipment and storage and also to protect the consumer.

Primers available to children, household pets, or persons not recognizing them as potentially hazardous, are an unnecessary risk to all concerned.

Never have an open flame, source of sparks, or hot particles in the vicinity of primers or any ammunition loading operation.

Do not smoke near primers.

Safety glasses must be worn when performing any and all handloading operations. Additional protection such as face shields or machine guards are strongly recommended.

Recommended Storage of Primers

Storage cabinets containing only primers are recommended. These cabinets should be ruggedly constructed of lumber at least 1" nominal thickness to delay or minimize the transmission of heat in the event of fire. SAAMI recommends against storing primers in sealed or pressurized containers.

Keep your storage and use area clean. Make sure the surrounding area is free of trash or other readily combustible materials.

Be sure your storage area is free from any possible sources of excessive heat and is isolated from open flame, furnaces, water heaters, etc. Do not store primers where they can be exposed to direct sunlight. Avoid storage in areas where mechanical or electrical equipment is in operation.

Do not store primers in the same area with solvents, flammable gases, or highly combustible materials. Store primers only in their original factory containers. Do not transfer the primers from this approved container into one which is not approved. The use of glass bottles, fruit jars, plastic or metal containers, or other bulk containers for primer storage is extremely hazardous.
Do not smoke in areas where primers are stored. Place appropriate "No Smoking" signs in these areas.

Do not store primers in any area where they might be exposed to gun fire, bullet impact, or ricochets.

Do not store primers with propellant powders or any other highly combustible materials so as to avoid involving primers in a fire as much as possible.

Observe all regulations regarding quantity and methods of storing primers.

The Following Recommendations on Storage and Handling of Sporting Ammunition Primers are Issued by the National Fire Protection Association Battery March Park, Quincy, MA 02269 and reprinted with their permission:

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Old October 18, 2008, 10:12 AM   #53
ilbob
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I would suggest if you want to further protect your primers or powder from humidity, perhaps you should consider vacuum seal bags.

No added risk of detonation or shrapnel.

I get a kick out of the rule about no more than 10,000 primers in a residence. I would bet a fair number of reloaders buy them in quantities greater than that, and some use a half dozen different sizes and brands.

The most important thing is not to store primers in bulk. Leave them in the original packing trays that provide a lot of shock cushion and keep the individual primers isolated from each other.
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Old October 18, 2008, 10:49 AM   #54
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since it's been years since I reloaded, coupled with the fact that I combined both mine & my father in laws loading stuff since he died in the time since I last loaded... I have a shelf with lots more empty cases than loaded ammo... I guess if technically I'm limited to 10,000 "raw" primers... I better get busy this winter

... there are 4-5000 primers that are too old for me to use other than for recerational plinking... so I may sell some this winter, but I'm in a good position to do the ammo can test ( I guess I need to "dispose" of a few of them before I can buy some fresh ones for this winters reloading )

BTW... the "zip lock" bag eye deer isn't half bad, niether is the plastic cooler... my local builder ( my mentor ) & I were discussing this thread yesterday... he feels that if stored in an ammo can in the basement, on the floor or a lower shelf, they shouldn't be "much" of hazard in a house fire ( which is how my father in law had stored his, on the basement floor in an ammo can for at least several decades before he died... my buddy also thought the use of disectant packs my dry out the primers more than needed, that they may need a small percentage of moisture to properly perform ???
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Old October 18, 2008, 12:45 PM   #55
rn22723
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Guys do as you wish, but simply put bulk primers stored anyway other the intended is foolish! One the floor, give me a break! A bomb is a bomb is a bomb! What part of that do some of your fail to grasp? LOL! Why do some of your insist on being contrary to something that requires no effort on your part? Oh I know you lack common sense? :barf:
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Old October 18, 2008, 02:40 PM   #56
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Quote:
Why do some of your insist on being contrary to something that requires no effort on your part? Oh I know you lack common sense?
obviously that comment was directed towards me...

1st off... I agreed that the ziplock bag & plastic cooler idea were good ideas... I currently have "most" of mine stored in ammo can, because that is how they came to me... I'll likely remove them from the ammo can...

however, fire burns upwards, & firefighter water goes down with gravity... I'd go as far as to say, that the chances if an ammo can full of primers were stored away from anything else flamable, & on a concrete floor in a basement, that almost no house fire would set them off, provided the fire department sprayed any water on the fire...

you... have 2 distinctions that I can offer you, that no one has ever gotten... you are the 1st person EVER to say I lack common sense, & also the 1st person arrogant enough to have me searching for the ingnore button... good bye... & good riddance
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Old October 18, 2008, 05:08 PM   #57
rn22723
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Do as you guys wish. Having people be contrary to researched ways of stroring primers is lacking common sense. I know darn well that NFPA knows more about haz mat stuff then most people. So, ingnoring things may well cost you insurance coverage? LOL You can not predict how a fire will spread! That wouold be tannamount to coming up with the powerball numebrs! LOL good luck with that! Arrogant? Nope you perhaps ought to consider your tone!
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Old October 18, 2008, 05:51 PM   #58
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rn22723[QUOTE]You can not predict how a fire will spread! That would be tantamount to coming up with the power-ball numbers[QUOTE] ( sorry, my spell checker automatically fixed your spelling ).
from the limited training that I have received ( 5 years in fire suppression on mining machinery and limited forest fire fighting ) I am led to believe that fire is very predictable. Even better odds than the toss of a coin.
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Old October 18, 2008, 06:45 PM   #59
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More than enough!

HAS EVERYONE HAD HIS SAY?

Are any of you getting the impression that, no matter what you say, you'll not change the mind of any other participant in this idiotic "discussion?"

Once again, a simple exchange of opinions, rendered in reply to a decent request for information, becomes really acrimonious, replete with personal attacks. It can't possibly be so important that you impose your opinion on others. Can you in any way believe that such tactics will convince your adversary of your own innate righteousness? I suppose you believe all present will declare, "Indeed, oh Great Fount of Wisdom, I yield to the wonderfulness of you and freely admit that I was totally in error to challenge your superior pronouncements."

Maybe, but I truly doubt it.

Please consider this a blanket warning. If any of those involved are again observed making personal attacks on any other member, he/they will be banned outright, with no additional warning.

Clear enough?

CLOSED

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