weatherby newbie - .460 questions

[MD11]

Hi,

This is my first time posting and my first time joining a firearms message board... I've lurked a while and checked out other forums but like this place the best from what I can see.

I have decided to take the deep plunge into the realm of very high powered rifles.. I ordered a Mark V in .460 which I plan to take on my 1st Safari sometime next year... I hope to get a Cape Buffalo and maybe something else which is TBD. I thought long and hard about what to get and after talking to a few hunters who've been down there, I decided to go with the most powerful gun I can reasonably afford.. My fear now is that while this gun will be great to knock down a buffalo at close range with one shot... it's going to be hell to play with back home at the range.. I did get the Accubreak, which is now standard and reduces the recoil by some 50%, but that's still more than two and a half times what my 30-06 does..

I wanted to get a scope for it to use at the range, and also ask anyone who's owned one of these what / if any ammo I can get to use at the range that's going to be useful for 2-300 yard targets and at the same time not knock my shoulder loose.. Does anyone (reputable) reload 400 or even 450/500 grain bullets with a lighter load of powder so I don't get that 4 tons of muzzle energy but at the same time I don't lose too much of the shorter range ballistics?

Lastly, I was hoping to get some advise on weather to use Warne or Talley quick release rings and mount for the Leupold VX7 that I am putting on it... The scope is going to be mainly for the range. I live right near where Warne are made, and can go down to their factory and pick up a pair.. or I can order the Talley's from the Weatherby site.. The gun is on it's way to my dealer and will be ready to shoot sometime early next week.

Thanks in advance for all the assistance...

[overland]

OP, but what country will you be hunting in and what safari company or ph? Just curious.

[MD11]

I have friends who enjoyed Tanzania but I'm not set on which outfitters yet.. I have to still research that part of it. I figured I'd start with the gun, learn to use it and then decide if / when / where to go and use it..

[Buzzcook]

Unless you reload yourself, your going to have to find custom cartridge maker to get light loads for your .460 Weatherby.

Here's a guy in Florence, Or. you might want to talk to.
http://www.pacificcoastcartridge.com/

A padded shooting jacket might be a good idea.

[B. Lahey]

I wanted to get a scope for it to use at the range, and also ask anyone who's owned one of these what / if any ammo I can get to use at the range that's going to be useful for 2-300 yard targets...

Have you looked into the standard practices of dangerous game hunting much?

If I were going to be practicing for a buff hunt, I don't think I would be expending money and extremely expensive ammunition shooting with equipment I'm not going to use at ranges I am unlikely to shoot from during the hunt.

I would spend a lot more time shooting offhand or from sticks at much closer ranges, with the sights I planned to use during the hunt. But that's just me.

[thinkingman]

FYI, many PH's won't allow the use of a brake.

[MD11]

B lahey, don't read too much into my question. I have EVERY intention to master close range no scope shooting and will BUT why not ALSO use the superb range capabilities of the rifle for marksmanship fun at the range? The price of the Ammo while not cheap isn't my problem, just that I don't always need the full strength version.

As for the break, if is a standard feature on the Magnum Mark V so I'm sure I can find many who will have no problems with it. May I ask why they might do such a thing? Safety of near by shooters maybe? Which is fair enough if so.

Thanks for the info all

[Scorch]

This is my first time posting and my first time joining a firearms message board.

Welcome to TFL!

I have decided to take the deep plunge into the realm of very high powered rifles.. I ordered a Mark V in .460 which I plan to take on my 1st Safari sometime next year

Wow! Nothing like jumping into the deep end of the pool! Most people move up gradually from 30-06, usually from a 30-06 to a 338, then a 375, then a 416, then a 458, or something like that. It takes time to learn how to shoot a big bore magnum. I dare say you will have your hands full with that one. You need to practice with whatever you will be hunting with until you are intimately familiar with it, so that handling and shooting it are second nature. That would translate to roughly 5-10 minutes handling it daily, raising it to shooting position and dry firing it at a target. When you do decide to shoot it, fire offhand or from sticks, don't take that brute to the bench.

I decided to go with the most powerful gun I can reasonably afford

Most professionals and guides recommend getting the most powerful gun you can shoot well.

many PH's won't allow the use of a brake.

I have heard and read this also. You may want to talk about the brake with whatever PH you decide on.

May I ask why they might do such a thing?

Hearing damage.

[MD11]

Great info Scorch, thanks. Yeah I have fired many magnum rifles over the years and use to own a 416 rigby which I took bear hunting in AK 3 years ago and now sold to fund this purchase.

I do also plan to save for and buy a 300 Weatherby next and after I complete this Safari.

[Bagmup]

I woulda kept the .416 and bought the .300. The .416 will take the big 5 easily with much less recoil.

[Doodlebugger45]

Very cool and I hope it works out. If you don't reload, can I have your brass?

[MD11]

Thanks Doodle, but I think I'm going to continue to send my spent brass to Kole over in MS.. he's usually pretty honest and gives me a substantial credit for them..

Again thanks all, for what it's worth, I decided to go with the Weatherby/Talley mounting system for the scope... (and no, I don't plan to use it on Safari)..

[natman]

Do not fire your 460 with a break unless you and all around you are wearing serious hearing protection.

How much experience do you have with hunting and high powered rifles?

[woodguru]

I've got to ask why you wouldn't reuse brass even if you have to have someone reload for you?

[woodguru]

sorry wrong topic deleted

[MD11]

I have been on more hunts than I can remember and I'd say 1/3 or so were with high powered rifle but this would be my first close range hunt. I want serious stopping power and I dont plan to fire a 2nd shot.

As for brass, of course I reuse. Kole is the guy who I send them to and buy my ammo from. As a matter of fact I just ordered 3 boxes of 460 from him, including one light load box so I can both break in the barrel and site the scope. I will then shoot off the other two boxes of solid tips at my friends place once I get the dry fire routine down pact.

You all act like I never shot a gun before with some of the questions I am getting. I said Weatherby newbie, not gun newbie.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive shot the 460 and 416 wbys side by side with and without brake. They both kick!!! Both are brutal without a brake and without the brake i could barely tell the differnce which i was shooting. With the brake the 416 wasnt to bad it seemed to help it alot more then it did the 460. Im not a big fan of muzzle brakes but i wouldnt order either without it. The cool thing is both rifles would shoot to the same point of aim with and without the brake so a guy can work up loads with the brake and hunt without it.

[taylorce1]

I agree you sure jumped in with both feet buying a .460 Bee!

As far as a scoped rifle on safari no problem, and a lot of guys shoot the big 5 at close range with a scope. Most are running something like a VX3 1.5-5X20 or similar. Here is a good article on Dangerous Game Optics and will give you an idea on what type of scope will work on a brute like you have.

I hope you learn to shoot that rifle well. I just can't imagine touching off heavy loads in a rifle like that. About all the recoil I like to handle is what my little .375 Ruger will produce.

[mapsjanhere]

I like a Zeiss Diavari 1.1-4 x 24 with the single red dot reticle for short range guns. Dialed all the way down it's a red dot sight, and the 4x is good enough for up to 150 yards for me.
Let us know how the range work with that 460 is going, I personally get uncomfortable with a 458 after only 5 rounds.
Oh, forgot the ring question, I tried both brands, and now buy exclusively Warne. I like that I can use them on all slotted bases while the Talley ones require Talley bases.

[Hammer1]

.

Have been playing with the 460 Weatherby and other such guns for 30+ years.

In my experience, the rifle will need to be re-sighted if the muzzle brake is removed. Not always, but I have had the POI move as much as 18 inches at 100 yards due to the brake being on or off the barrel.

In my trips to Africa, have been told very directly that I would not be allowed to use a muzzle brake on any gun. There is a very specific, understandable reason for this. African trackers are used to being up close, out to the side, in front of, etc the client hunter. It is wrong to subject the tracker to the abuse of muzzle brake noise.

The 460 Wby and other cartridges based on it do kick. No doubt about it.

Mine have been restocked with custom McMillan fiberglass stocks with two pounds of lead added to the butt when the stock was made. That helps.

As for scopes, long eye relief and ability to handle heavy recoil is everything when using the 460 Wby. Have used scout-type scope setups. Jim Brockman made me one such setup. Used a Leupold 1½X scope with it. Have also used a Burris 2½X. With conventional scopes have used Leupold 3X scopes. Open or ghost-ring sights are better.

As for Warne rings, have had two different sets break on me.


My longest shot with a 460 was on an eland bull at about 200 yards facing directly at me. The 500-grain Swift A-frame bullet penetrated all the way to his hip, where the expanded bullet was immediately visible stopped by the elastic skin.


.

[jgcoastie]

Whatever you do, don't put Talley aluminium rings on that gun. I had a set on my X-Bolt .308 and they held up for about 30 shots. I doubt they will stay solidly locked up on a .460 Wby.

[MD11]

Lots of good stuff here fellas.... I've discussed the brake with some friends and there is a simple solution... it can be removed easily... I plan to first shoot it (break in) with the brake.. then learn to use it without the break and away from the bench.. All my hunts have been with a scope, so I think I plan to stick with using one.. I was able to find a decent Leupold with a 5" eye relief which is more than sufficient.

Thanks again all, and keep your input coming..

[Hammer1]

.

Would recommend a low-magnification fixed-power scope as being more durable with fewer parts to break under recoil.

If insisting on a variable-powered scope, see if the long eye relief changes with magnification changes.


.

[sc928porsche]

At the price of ammo, reloading is definately the way to go. I would highly suggest you invest a little into some reloading equipment so that you can build your own loads. I have a MK V in 460 that I purchace in the late 70's and do most of my range shooting with 405 gr reduced loads.

Start with the smaller stuff and work your way up to the full loads. With 500gr and full load and with brake removed, about the best thing that can be said about the recoil is that it is absolutely brutal. Definately not a pleasure shooter and should be done with iron sights.

I purchaced it for that "dream hunt" and I am still dreaming. Hopefully, its not too far down the road. In the meantime, I practice with it to keep my skills up. I did take it out once for a deer hunt, but only because everyone in camp was kidding me about hunting with cannons (I use a 300WM). I didnt see anything that day, and probably a good thing. Wouldnt be much left if I had shot one. But the guys quit kidding me about my 300.

[taylorce1]

I've discussed the brake with some friends and there is a simple solution... it can be removed easily... I plan to first shoot it (break in) with the brake.. then learn to use it without the break and away from the bench.. All my hunts have been with a scope, so I think I plan to stick with using one.. I was able to find a decent Leupold with a 5" eye relief which is more than sufficient.

I'd never take the brake off until right before the hunt for final sight in. Learn to shoot the rifle to the best of your ability, and if you can't ever learn to shoot it then sell it off and get something you can handle. During the hunt you'll never miss the brake especially once the adrenaline gets to flowing, you proabably will not even notice the recoil. You want to be able to control that rifle without ever flinching to make that first shot count on dangerous game or any game for that matter.