Sizing New Brass

alcor123 · May 10, 2005, 12:29 AM

Is it advisable to full length resize new brass?

Sturm · May 10, 2005, 12:34 AM

I do, since all of my future loads will be at the dimension that my resizing die determines.

DAVID NANCARROW · May 10, 2005, 01:35 AM

Probably not all that necessary, but I do full length resize all cases, rifle and pistol, just to make sure everything is round where it needs to be.

slimshot · May 10, 2005, 01:56 PM

I do . In fact I just bought 200 new Winchester cases in .45 Colt and not only did they need to be sized, but the case lengths were all over the map! (I think it even said on the bag to size and trim before loading.) You'd think a "major" brand would be more uniform. As in anything with reloading, it depends on how picky you are....

caz223 · May 10, 2005, 02:20 PM

The only caliber I neck size is .223, and that's only the .223 that has the marks of being through my 700VS already.
Everything else gets full length resized, new or not.

300wsm · May 10, 2005, 04:41 PM

I would aswell. i just got some 300WSM brass from winchester brand new and the case openining itself was not very uniform. kind of surprising. just to be safe I would resize them before teh first use.
Andy

cheygriz · May 10, 2005, 04:44 PM

Definitely full length resize all new brass.

G56 · May 10, 2005, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Definitely full length resize all new brass.

Absolutely!

CaptainRazor · May 10, 2005, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Definitely full length resize all new brass.

Quote:

Absolutely!

x2, and check length and trim if needed.

smokin54 · May 11, 2005, 07:27 PM

I size ALL new brass

Smokey Joe · May 11, 2005, 08:17 PM

New brass?? Virgin brass?? Or free range brass?? If it chambers in the firearm in question, and if its case length checks out right, and if it doesn't need its mouth chamfered--All of which describes most virgin brass and a lot of range brass IMX--I just load it up and fire it. Size it only if need be.

Bottleneck rifle cases for use in bolt guns get neck-sized only, after that, and kept separate in lots, and only used in the original rifle. I have yet to have brass stretch to where it needs to be FL sized, at any time in its useful life. Semi-auto, lever, and pump guns, of course get their own lots of brass, and they get FL sized each time, but for the initial firing, there too I don't size cases that don't need it.

New pistol brass is the same--don't resize until after the initial firing.

For bolt rifles, until the brass has been fire-formed it doesn't exactly conform to the chamber anyhow, so why size it before ever firing it?

Bottom line: Why work the brass more than you have to?

flashhole · May 11, 2005, 09:20 PM

Yes, it is a very bad assumption that new brass can be used as-is without resizing. I made that mistake one time when loading for my 7mm Rem Mag. Now ALL new brass gets full length resized before it is loaded. Once it is fire formed in the chamber of you gunyou can neck size only. It's frustrating to pull bullets from new brass because the cartridge won't chamber in your gun.

DAVID NANCARROW · May 11, 2005, 09:29 PM

"I have yet to have brass stretch to where it needs to be FL sized"

Smokey Joe-Full length resizing will stretch the brass even further, not shorten it. Yet another good reason to neck size brass for a turn bolt action.

I have not tried the RCBS X-dies yet, which advertise never having to trim brass, but that metal has to go some place!

I've had a few instances where new brass has been out of round in the mouth or the case body, so rather than jam a bunch of new brass through my rifle's chamber to find the bad ones, I full length resize in order to have a baseline. Given the same powder/primer/bulet/seating depth, all the brass should fireform to the chamber in the same way. Might not be all that scientific, but if I'm taking the time to handload, might as well start off on an equal foot.

I suppose that I could buy chamber gauges for all the calibers I load for, but thats a few boxes of bullets in and of itself!

**Unclenick** · May 11, 2005, 09:43 PM

I agree with Smokey Joe. Work hardening shortens brass life, so why sacrifice load life if you can avoid it? I will, however, trim and chamfer new rifle brass to one uniform minimum length. I don't consider that a waste of time because it usually takes a couple more loadings before the neck stretches out enough to require another trim. I am just getting ahead and uniforming the future trim schedule for that lot of brass.

I do sort rifle brass by weight and by case and neck wall uniformity as determined on a NECO case gauge (www.neconos.com). This is to let me set aside the best of the lot for long-range prone shooting and for the slow-fire prone stage of service rifle matches. The worst of the lot gets used in position practice.

For pistol, the need is caliber dependent. .45 ACP brass loaded down for bulls eye matches actually shortens about a half a thousandth with each reloading. This is because the pressure is too low to stick the case to the chamber wall while the pressure stretches the case head web back to the breech face as it does in rifles. So it just expands to shorter and fatter. I presume other modest pressure pistol calibers will do the same thing, but have only actually measured the phenomenon in .45 ACP cases. In any event, I don't want to shorten something by pre-trimming something that will eventually get too short anyway. The only reason might be severe non-uniformity, but even then, I would be tempted to intentionally select a couple dozen of the shortest and longest and mix them up to see whether a composite group off sandbags is really larger than one fired from cases I had trimmed to uniformity.

The bottom line is always to shoot comparative groups to test whether you are accomplishing anything or not? If not, skip the step.

Nick

sundog · May 12, 2005, 09:02 AM

If it's straight or taper pistol brass, I always FLS, even when new.

If it's new bottle neck rifle brass and fits the chamber and holds a bullet, I will load it, shoot it to fire form, then if the batch needs it I will trim to uniform length. I have run across new rifle brass that was over max length and had to be trimmed before the FIRST loading. Most all of my bolt rifle brass is dedicated to a rifle and stays with it and is neck or partial FLS sized only. sundog

brickeyee · May 13, 2005, 10:00 AM

I size them all. Straight to ensure tension, rifle to get the dings out of the case mouth from bulk handling.
Neck turning after fire forming on the AIs with tight necks.

Sturm · May 13, 2005, 04:30 PM

I believe both oppinions are accurate and I was thinking pistol brass in my earlier post which I will size when new for the stated reason. In the case of rifle brass, the first loading is FL sized to factory spec for multiple rifle use, and after it has become fireformed to the specific chamber using a start charge, I switch to FL resizing for the individual rifle chamber for subsequent loads in hunting rifles. I started this with the advice of the late Bob Milek, but if you shoot benchrest and prefer to neck size only, I can't argue with that. FL resizing is beneficial where fast loading and extraction might be necessary.

Smokey Joe · May 13, 2005, 10:10 PM

Sturm: Except for semi-autos, I've never FL sized a bottle-neck rifle case in my life. (Well, except for range pick-ups that wouldn't chamber otherwise!) I can categorically state that I have NEVER, EVER had a feed-in nor an extraction problem.

Of course, mebbe I'm just lucky.

All the ammo I reload is of target quality; whether I put a hunting bullet or a target bullet into the case is beside the point. I don't care less about accuracy if the round is for hunting. I have never seen the value of using cheap "plinking" grade ammo--If I fire a round at something, I don't hope to hit it, I intend and expect to.

Of course, mebbe I'm just fussy.

Throckmorton · May 14, 2005, 01:04 AM

Definately at least check it before assuming it's loadable as-is when new.I tried loading new pistol brass one time and the bullets all but fell into the case.
If you have a progressive like i do now it's a moot point.
as to checking oal,I have bought new pistol brass that was .010 under minimum.wha'ts up with that?

WESHOOT2 · May 14, 2005, 09:07 AM

Mandatory: size all cases. This also confirms a punched-through flash hole.

There have been a few exceptional reasons WHY I didn't resize a handgun case, but ONLY because of the intended rounds' exotic nature.

"Round and a hole through the bottom"

May 10, 2005, 12:29 AM	#1
alcor123 Junior Member Join Date: May 10, 2005 Posts: 3	Sizing New Brass Is it advisable to full length resize new brass?

May 10, 2005, 02:20 PM	#5
caz223 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,429	The only caliber I neck size is .223, and that's only the .223 that has the marks of being through my 700VS already. Everything else gets full length resized, new or not. __________________ I'm not just a gun. I'm YOUR gun. (Hold me.)

May 10, 2005, 04:44 PM	#7
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	Definitely full length resize all new brass. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

May 11, 2005, 08:17 PM	#11
Smokey Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: State of Confusion Posts: 2,106	Well, I thought more people did what I do. New brass?? Virgin brass?? Or free range brass?? If it chambers in the firearm in question, and if its case length checks out right, and if it doesn't need its mouth chamfered--All of which describes most virgin brass and a lot of range brass IMX--I just load it up and fire it. Size it only if need be. Bottleneck rifle cases for use in bolt guns get neck-sized only, after that, and kept separate in lots, and only used in the original rifle. I have yet to have brass stretch to where it needs to be FL sized, at any time in its useful life. Semi-auto, lever, and pump guns, of course get their own lots of brass, and they get FL sized each time, but for the initial firing, there too I don't size cases that don't need it. New pistol brass is the same--don't resize until after the initial firing. For bolt rifles, until the brass has been fire-formed it doesn't exactly conform to the chamber anyhow, so why size it before ever firing it? Bottom line: Why work the brass more than you have to? __________________ God Bless America --Smokey Joe

May 11, 2005, 09:20 PM	#12
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Yes, it is a very bad assumption that new brass can be used as-is without resizing. I made that mistake one time when loading for my 7mm Rem Mag. Now ALL new brass gets full length resized before it is loaded. Once it is fire formed in the chamber of you gunyou can neck size only. It's frustrating to pull bullets from new brass because the cartridge won't chamber in your gun. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

May 10, 2005, 12:34 AM	#2
Sturm Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2005 Location: Central Texas Posts: 584	I do, since all of my future loads will be at the dimension that my resizing die determines.

May 10, 2005, 01:35 AM	#3
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	Probably not all that necessary, but I do full length resize all cases, rifle and pistol, just to make sure everything is round where it needs to be.

May 10, 2005, 01:56 PM	#4
slimshot Member Join Date: November 18, 2004 Location: Springfield, IL Posts: 39	I do . In fact I just bought 200 new Winchester cases in .45 Colt and not only did they need to be sized, but the case lengths were all over the map! (I think it even said on the bag to size and trim before loading.) You'd think a "major" brand would be more uniform. As in anything with reloading, it depends on how picky you are....

May 10, 2005, 04:41 PM	#6
300wsm Junior Member Join Date: April 1, 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 9	I would aswell. i just got some 300WSM brass from winchester brand new and the case openining itself was not very uniform. kind of surprising. just to be safe I would resize them before teh first use. Andy

May 11, 2005, 07:27 PM	#10
smokin54 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Posts: 193	I size ALL new brass

May 11, 2005, 09:29 PM	#13
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	"I have yet to have brass stretch to where it needs to be FL sized" Smokey Joe-Full length resizing will stretch the brass even further, not shorten it. Yet another good reason to neck size brass for a turn bolt action. I have not tried the RCBS X-dies yet, which advertise never having to trim brass, but that metal has to go some place! I've had a few instances where new brass has been out of round in the mouth or the case body, so rather than jam a bunch of new brass through my rifle's chamber to find the bad ones, I full length resize in order to have a baseline. Given the same powder/primer/bulet/seating depth, all the brass should fireform to the chamber in the same way. Might not be all that scientific, but if I'm taking the time to handload, might as well start off on an equal foot. I suppose that I could buy chamber gauges for all the calibers I load for, but thats a few boxes of bullets in and of itself!

May 11, 2005, 09:43 PM	#14
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I agree with Smokey Joe. Work hardening shortens brass life, so why sacrifice load life if you can avoid it? I will, however, trim and chamfer new rifle brass to one uniform minimum length. I don't consider that a waste of time because it usually takes a couple more loadings before the neck stretches out enough to require another trim. I am just getting ahead and uniforming the future trim schedule for that lot of brass. I do sort rifle brass by weight and by case and neck wall uniformity as determined on a NECO case gauge (www.neconos.com). This is to let me set aside the best of the lot for long-range prone shooting and for the slow-fire prone stage of service rifle matches. The worst of the lot gets used in position practice. For pistol, the need is caliber dependent. .45 ACP brass loaded down for bulls eye matches actually shortens about a half a thousandth with each reloading. This is because the pressure is too low to stick the case to the chamber wall while the pressure stretches the case head web back to the breech face as it does in rifles. So it just expands to shorter and fatter. I presume other modest pressure pistol calibers will do the same thing, but have only actually measured the phenomenon in .45 ACP cases. In any event, I don't want to shorten something by pre-trimming something that will eventually get too short anyway. The only reason might be severe non-uniformity, but even then, I would be tempted to intentionally select a couple dozen of the shortest and longest and mix them up to see whether a composite group off sandbags is really larger than one fired from cases I had trimmed to uniformity. The bottom line is always to shoot comparative groups to test whether you are accomplishing anything or not? If not, skip the step. Nick

May 12, 2005, 09:02 AM	#15
sundog Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Green Country, OK Posts: 782	If it's straight or taper pistol brass, I always FLS, even when new. If it's new bottle neck rifle brass and fits the chamber and holds a bullet, I will load it, shoot it to fire form, then if the batch needs it I will trim to uniform length. I have run across new rifle brass that was over max length and had to be trimmed before the FIRST loading. Most all of my bolt rifle brass is dedicated to a rifle and stays with it and is neck or partial FLS sized only. sundog __________________ safety first

May 13, 2005, 10:00 AM	#16
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	I size them all. Straight to ensure tension, rifle to get the dings out of the case mouth from bulk handling. Neck turning after fire forming on the AIs with tight necks.

May 13, 2005, 04:30 PM	#17
Sturm Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2005 Location: Central Texas Posts: 584	I believe both oppinions are accurate and I was thinking pistol brass in my earlier post which I will size when new for the stated reason. In the case of rifle brass, the first loading is FL sized to factory spec for multiple rifle use, and after it has become fireformed to the specific chamber using a start charge, I switch to FL resizing for the individual rifle chamber for subsequent loads in hunting rifles. I started this with the advice of the late Bob Milek, but if you shoot benchrest and prefer to neck size only, I can't argue with that. FL resizing is beneficial where fast loading and extraction might be necessary.

May 13, 2005, 10:10 PM	#18
Smokey Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: State of Confusion Posts: 2,106	Respectfully disagree! Sturm: Except for semi-autos, I've never FL sized a bottle-neck rifle case in my life. (Well, except for range pick-ups that wouldn't chamber otherwise!) I can categorically state that I have NEVER, EVER had a feed-in nor an extraction problem. Of course, mebbe I'm just lucky. All the ammo I reload is of target quality; whether I put a hunting bullet or a target bullet into the case is beside the point. I don't care less about accuracy if the round is for hunting. I have never seen the value of using cheap "plinking" grade ammo--If I fire a round at something, I don't hope to hit it, I intend and expect to. Of course, mebbe I'm just fussy. __________________ God Bless America --Smokey Joe

May 14, 2005, 01:04 AM	#19
Throckmorton Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2004 Location: Washougal,Wa Posts: 126	Definately at least check it before assuming it's loadable as-is when new.I tried loading new pistol brass one time and the bullets all but fell into the case. If you have a progressive like i do now it's a moot point. as to checking oal,I have bought new pistol brass that was .010 under minimum.wha'ts up with that?

May 14, 2005, 09:07 AM	#20
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	handgun cases Mandatory: size all cases. This also confirms a punched-through flash hole. There have been a few exceptional reasons WHY I didn't resize a handgun case, but ONLY because of the intended rounds' exotic nature. "Round and a hole through the bottom" __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"