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Old March 8, 2024, 04:16 PM   #1
Skans
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Biden Says He's Banning Assault Weapons and Magazines...

He was pretty emphatic about that last night. Just wondering what Biden Supporting gun owners think about that.
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Old March 8, 2024, 04:53 PM   #2
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Well, in September 2023, President Biden established the first-ever White House Office of Gun Violence Prevention, overseen by Vice President Kamala Harris.

That should tell us something.

P.S. I think Vice President Kamala Harris is also in charge of the southern border.

P.P.S. But please don't ASSUME, just because I posted that I am a Biden supporter---pretty much just stirring the pot.
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Old March 8, 2024, 05:55 PM   #3
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He says that all the time. The 1994 ban was pretty much the only lasting legacy he has that he can safely brag about.

So of course, he's going to roll it out like a dinosaur band rolls out their one hit from 1977 as an encore when they're performing on a cruise ship somewhere.

The votes aren't there in either the House or the Senate.
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Old March 8, 2024, 06:15 PM   #4
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I have found gun owners who aren’t into semiautomatic rifles generally don’t care if they are banned. I’ve heard guys who bird and deer hunt say, “Nobody needs these weapons of war that are only for killing people.” After seeing the public bend over for Covid lock downs and all the arbitrary BS that went with that, if they aren’t coming for YOUR shot/ slug gun, the majority won’t care.
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Old March 8, 2024, 10:15 PM   #5
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Biden says a lot of things. Rarely are any of them factual or accurate. He's been a career politician his entire working life, and as far as I know, never met a gun control proposal he disliked or objected to.

Personally I'd think he ought to ban cocaine at the White House before the looks at gun control again, but that's just me....

Quote:
I’ve heard guys who bird and deer hunt say, “Nobody needs these weapons of war that are only for killing people.”
I've heard that too. There are gun owners who support the gun control movement, because the gun banners aren't going after the guns they personally own and use.

When you meet such folks, simply remind them that the gun banners aren't coming after their guns TODAY, and that they should look up Pastor Martin Niemoeller's work.
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Old March 8, 2024, 10:45 PM   #6
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hanging together

I have heard men, intelligent men, hunters and shooters, make the same comments, men who I thought would think better. I agree with 44AMP on this one, it is just a hop, skip and a jump to your autoloading bird gun, tube fed magazine pump, or your scoped big game rifle. And any handgun.

We must all stick together......."if it burns powder, I'm for it"......Elmer Keith.

On the other side, I have read that there are an estimated 25 million AR pattern rifles in circulation in the US, and some 20 million Glock pistols. And IL, who recently enacted a registration system, is not getting much participation in the program. While citizens are surprisingly compliant with much gov't flexing, it would take a heck of a program to reel in close to 50 million guns of just two types.
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Old March 9, 2024, 06:56 AM   #7
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I’ve heard guys who bird and deer hunt say, “Nobody needs these weapons of war that are only for killing people.”
Not everybody follows the issues as closely as we do. Many of those people are misinformed, and the gun-control lobby is great at misinformation.

In the leadup to the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, we didn't have the internet. We got our news from the TV networks. Every time the ban came up, the reporter would have a picture or video on the screen behind them depicting someone shooting a machine gun in a theater like Yugoslavia or Rwanda. Many people assumed the ban was just a ban on machine guns, so they didn't oppose it.

Biden himself sponsored and negotiated the bill. He was a big part of that perception and often mentioned machine guns.

Even worse, the other parts of that bill led to terrible consequences. Prison sentences for minor drug possession offenses skyrocketed, and so did the minority prison population. I find it very interesting that, in the age of calls for criminal justice reform, nobody has publicly questioned him about it.
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Old March 9, 2024, 07:22 AM   #8
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Amazing how the founding fathers predicted this very sort of thing.
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Old March 9, 2024, 08:05 AM   #9
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Well, of course my experience has been completely different on the question of "snowflake hunters" who oppose semi-automatics. The hunters I've known who oppose MSR's have never ever mentioned any aspect of gun control--it has always been more of a "anyone who uses them isn't manly enough or good enough to hunt with a 'real' rifle, and has to make up for it with a spray and pray semi auto."
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Old March 9, 2024, 10:53 AM   #10
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“ Even worse, the other parts of that bill led to terrible consequences. Prison sentences for minor drug possession offenses skyrocketed, and so did the minority prison population. I find it very interesting that, in the age of calls for criminal justice reform, nobody has publicly questioned him about it.” Tom Servo

Kamala Harris did publicly question him about it in one of the early Democrat candidate debates. Then they canceled the Democrat primary, anointed Biden as king, and gave Kamala the VP slot to shut her up.

I find the Illinois situation interesting. Less than 2% compliance. 1600 registrations out of a possible 50,000- 60,000. And that doesn’t count home builds. And the state doesn’t know who has what, even with the FOID system. They are depending on owners to rat on themselves.
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Old March 9, 2024, 12:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
Not everybody follows the issues as closely as we do. Many of those people are misinformed, and the gun-control lobby is great at misinformation.

In the leadup to the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, we didn't have the internet. We got our news from the TV networks. Every time the ban came up, the reporter would have a picture or video on the screen behind them depicting someone shooting a machine gun in a theater like Yugoslavia or Rwanda. Many people assumed the ban was just a ban on machine guns, so they didn't oppose it.

Biden himself sponsored and negotiated the bill. He was a big part of that perception and often mentioned machine guns.
The person who coined the term "assault rifle" was a professional anti-gunner named Josh Sugarmann. He started out trying to ban handguns, but by the late 80's that campaign had run out of steam, so he came up with a new approach to pep up his anti gun organization. From his paper, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America:

It will be a new topic in what has become to the press and public an “old” debate. Although handguns claim more than 20,000 lives a year, the issue of handgun restriction consistently remains a non-issue with the vast majority of legislators, the press, and public. .....Assault weapons—just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms—are a new topic. The weapons’ menacing looks, coupled with the public’s confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons—anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. [underlining added]

The upshot: It's easy to market bans on "Assault weapons" because they are scary looking, especially to people who don't know anything about guns. In other words, most voters.
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Old March 9, 2024, 02:15 PM   #12
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The person who coined the term "assault rifle" was a professional anti-gunner named Josh Sugarmann.
No, sorry, he didn't. The person who coined the term "assault rifle" was Adolf Hitler, in 1944.

Because earlier in the war, when Germany was winning, Hitler had forbidden the development of new rifles as a "waste of resources", the German engineers working on the concept continued their work under the cover name of MP (maschinen pistole) the German term for submachine guns, development of which was not forbidden. When he found out about the "new rifles" Hitler was furious, but after having some demonstrated for him, changed his mind and became enthusiastic about them, renaming the MP-44 the Sturmgewehr.

Sturmgewehr translates to "assault rifle" in English.

After the war, the firearms community adopted the term "assault rifle" and defined it using the primary features found on the German gun. And those were Selective fire (semi AND full auto) box magazine fed, intermediate power cartridge. Other features like a straight line stock and separate pistol grip are common but not required to meet the definition of assault rifle.

What Sugermann did, after leaving NBC over some pickup trucks being rigged to blow up, was jump into the gun control "market" and while I don't know if he, personally, coined the term "assault weapon" or not, but he did push hard for its use in the media cynically aware that the similarity in terms would confuse the public into thinking assault weapons were machine guns and so getting restrictions and bans was made easier.

If it is an "assault weapon" and its a rifle, people who don't know (or care) about the correct definition call it an assault rifle.

By the definition if the 1994 federal law, assault weapons are semi automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns that possess features listed in that law.

Note that, SEMI AUTOMATIC. NO actual assault rifle is covered under that law. Not one. Under Federal law, assault rifles are machine guns, due to the capacity to fire full auto.

Sugarmann embraced and promoted deceptive and misleading terminology about firearms to advance his agenda, and isn't on my list of honorable opponents over gun control.
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Old March 9, 2024, 09:12 PM   #13
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I have found gun owners who aren’t into semiautomatic rifles generally don’t care if they are banned. I’ve heard guys who bird and deer hunt say, “Nobody needs these weapons of war that are only for killing people.” After seeing the public bend over for Covid lock downs and all the arbitrary BS that went with that, if they aren’t coming for YOUR shot/ slug gun, the majority won’t care
Ehh, I'm sure those attitudes are held by some... but my experience is that most hunters (even ones who dont have an AR) tend to be "gun people," and most "gun people" are against any new bans. Note my qualifiers of "most," as in not "all." Of course this is culture and region specific, but growing up where I did in the 80s and 90s, almost no one in my circle of friends had a family that owned an AR or AK... we were hunters. But we were also shooters, and frequently took .22 rifles out for plinking tonstay sharp. A new gun was coveted. We (and our fathers) WERE gun people. Everyone generally agreed with the "cold dead hands" sign at the local country and hardware store. That Era is gone now. That local "country" store is owned aby someone of middle eastern descent. I dont say that disparagingly... but no one would have dreamed that even in 2000. Today, many more "gun people" own an AR or AK than did when I was growing up.

Of course this is culture and region specific. YMMV.
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Old March 10, 2024, 04:13 AM   #14
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Gun laws for everyone but his kid.
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Old March 10, 2024, 05:17 AM   #15
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Gun laws for everyone but his kid.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

I am so confused why a party that is so soft on crime is obsessed with taking guns from law abiding citizens. Obviously legal gun owners commit crimes, but I suspect the majority of gun crimes are committed by people who already cannot legally own a gun. Makes one think this has less to do with safety and more to do with old fashion politics.
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Old March 10, 2024, 05:18 AM   #16
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Kamala Harris did publicly question him about it in one of the early Democrat candidate debates.
She did, but take a look at her career as a DA and AG back in California. She was big on mandatory minimum sentences for minor drug offenses, and she was aggressive in defending the state's gun-control laws.
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Old March 10, 2024, 07:57 AM   #17
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Biden is pandering to his anti-gun constituents. Political criminals , especially presidents , often pander to their constituents.

Yep, this stuff stirs up people on gun boards.
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Old March 10, 2024, 08:56 AM   #18
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I don't see it happening in my lifetime. The 1994-2004 ban only passed by 1 vote in the house. In fact it failed by 1 vote with only a couple of minutes left to vote. I don't recall who, but a single congressman changed his vote at the last second.

And that ban didn't really ban much of anything. Cosmetic changes were made to the guns and NEW magazines had to be limited to 10 rounds. But there were literally millions of older magazines re-imported into this county and resold.

In 1994 rifles such as the AR-15 were uncommon. I didn't own one and I didn't know anyone who owned one. But I bought my 1st AR during the ban. Of course, it couldn't have a muzzle brake or bayonet lug. I had to buy used magazines, but they worked fine.

By 2004 when the ban ended, I didn't know anyone that didn't have an AR. The ban only sold the very rifles they tried to stop. And after 2004 sales have exploded. There are almost twice as many AR's out there as there are lever action 30-30's.

I don't see how they could ban the most common, most popular rifle in American history. You'd be surprised at how many people who consider themselves Liberals own them.
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Old March 10, 2024, 09:49 AM   #19
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I am so confused why a party that is so soft on crime is obsessed with taking guns from law abiding citizens.
Gimme an 'H'!
Gimme an 'Y'!
Gimme an 'P'!
Gimme an 'O'!
Gimme an 'C'!
Gimme an 'R'!
Gimme an 'I'!
Gimme an 'S'!
Gimme an 'Y'!

To quote somebody: 'If it wasn't for double standards they wouldn't have any.'
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Old March 10, 2024, 11:28 AM   #20
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They are wanting to take are guns from us because they're afraid of us.
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Old March 10, 2024, 02:14 PM   #21
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By very slim margins, the votes aren't there. If they were, he'd sign a ban of semi-autos, magazines, and possibly double-action revolvers (technically, they can be considered semi-auto too). Did you think Joe was joking? I didn't.
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Old March 10, 2024, 02:20 PM   #22
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Why do you say that Biden is pandering to his constituents? He's got the nomination in the bag. He doesn't need to pander to his constituents. If anything, he needs to move to the center to gain popularity. He was extremely emphatic about banning semi-autos and magazines. I think that was his warning to all of us of exactly what his handlers want him to do. Will force him to do, if they get the votes in Congress.
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Old March 10, 2024, 03:10 PM   #23
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and possibly double-action revolvers (technically, they can be considered semi-auto too).
Please explain how one could consider a DA revolver a semi-auto, without rewriting the definition of semi automatic.

Which doesn't mean they can't ban DA revolvers, though there is no current law at the Federal level allowing that, there was, between 1994 and 2004. And probably still is in those states that directly copied the 94 Fed AWB completely, minus the sunset provision.

The language I am referring to is the part that bans the Streetsweeper /Striker 12 shotguns. Those two guns were banned, by name, but the sleeper part is the language that says "or any other firearm substantially similar to..."

The mechanism of those shotguns is a scaled up version of the DA revolver mechanism. I believe that language was intentionally put into the law so that, when they felt the time was right, they would have a legal basis for banning DA revolvers.

The fact is that, the longer a bad law goes unchallenged, the more difficult it gets to get it off the books. Not impossible, but more difficult, the basic logic used to defend it is, "its been the law for years, you didn't have a problem with it then, why are you objecting to it now??"

I believe they put it in as a sleeper, with just that in mind, but the sunset provision of the 94 law spoiled that approach (but only through that specific law).

I believe their "evil plan" is to get rid of "assault weapons", then ALL semiautos, and THEN go after revolvers and other manually operated firearms, but of course I have no proof to offer, and you won't find any of the politicians admitting to it, and remaining viable politicians.

Look what happened during the Democratic candidates debates prior to Biden being chosen as their candidate. When Beto O Rourke announced, (live and on stage where it couldn't be covered up) that "Hell yes, we're going to take your AR15"...all the other candidates smiled, and said nothing. Biden stood there with his usual confused look and mumbled "I don't think that's Constitutional..." without much conviction or enthusiasm.

I believe the others just smiled, because while it was their goal as well, they were pleased that Beto was stupid enough to say it out loud, and that shot his chances right in the butt, big time. Indeed, within two days of announcing Hell yes, we're taking your AR15... Beto was no longer a candidate for the nomination.

Think that was just a coincidence?? I don't.
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Old March 11, 2024, 02:43 AM   #24
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Please explain how one could consider a DA revolver a semi-auto, without rewriting the definition of semi automatic.
Problem is, the bump-stock ban rewrote the definition of "machine gun."
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Old March 11, 2024, 08:54 AM   #25
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44AMP asked how I could possibly define a double-action revolver as a semi-auto. Well, let's start with the Striker shotgun. It was essentially a double-action revolver-type shotgun. Bill Clinton reclassified it as a Destructive Device requiring registration and ATF permission to transfer. Then, there's the old 1950's Dardick. It fed from a magazine into a revolving cylinder. Looks like a revolver, but could the Gun Grabbers define it as a semi-auto? Sure they could. Even in a conventional revolver, some of which have 8, maybe 10 rounds. For every action of the trigger, a new round is readied to be fired and then fired. No practical difference between a DAO semi-auto, or for that matter any semi-auto.

When Joe Biden can call your semi-auto rifle an Assault Rifle, Machine Gun, or weapon of war, they can certainly call your double-action revolver a semi-auto pistol.
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