454 Casull Primers?

wyobohunter · October 20, 2009, 09:07 PM

I know that the 454 Casull requires small rifle primers. I went to my local gun store to pick some up. He had Rem. 6 1/2 (small rifle) and Rem. 7 1/2 (small rifle Bench Rest). The owner told me that Freedom Arms suggests the use of the Rem. 7 1/2 so I bought some. When I got home I looked at FA's website and sure enough...

(below is Freedom Arms Data)
LOADING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR REVOLVERS MANUFACURED BY FREEDOM ARMS CHAMBERED FOR 454 CASULL ONLY!
ALL VELOCITIES ARE FOR : 7.5" PRESSURE BARREL.*
BULLET DIAMETERS ARE : .451 / .452
PRIMER SIZE : SMALL RIFLE REM. # 7 1/2
CASE TRIM LENGTH : 1.380"
MAXIMUM CASE LENGTH : 1.385"
MAXIMUM O.A.L. LENGTH: 1.765"

Or see for yourself http://www.freedomarms.com/loading.html

Anybody know why this is? Only thing I could figure is maybe the sillouette (sp?) shooter would want bench rest primers. I'm not concerned with accuracy beyond minute of Bear at 15-25 yds.

Magnum Wheel Man · October 21, 2009, 07:02 AM

The 7.5 is a harder cup ( they often recommend the small rifle magnum, or bench rest for 223 semi autos, to prevent slam fires )... I would suspect that with the super high pressures of the 454 ( I have one that I have all the stuff to load for, but so far have not found the time ) that Freedom Arms thinks the harder primer cups, might be safer / hlp prevent pierced primers on this very high pressure round... the only negitive, would be if the revolver didn't have a heavy enough hammer spring to reliably ignite the harder cup... but assume since they are recommending the harder cup, they have already seen to that...

wyobohunter · October 21, 2009, 12:26 PM

Except I don't have a FA, I have one of those Ruger SRH Alaskans. The gunshop owner/gunsmith guessed it was the same thing you did. So, how do I know if my hammer spring isn't stout enough? Will there be unburned powder in the bbl, erratic chrony data, fail to fire?

mapsjanhere · October 21, 2009, 01:09 PM

It should be only failure to fire, primer is usually digital, it's either all or nothing. All that does is change your accuracy problem to minute of bear at 5 yds by the time you pulled the trigger again.

brickeyee · October 21, 2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

So, how do I know if my hammer spring isn't stout enough?

No boom or hangfires.

If the primer goes off, it ALL goes off (it is a primary explosive).

Magnum Wheel Man · October 21, 2009, 05:09 PM

my 454 is also a Ruger Alaskan... if you are not getting 100% reliable ignition, or the firing pin dents in the primers look shallow ( they may fire fine in warm weather but not fire in cold weather, for example, so make sure the primer is solidly "dented" when you shoot it ), if not, then use the 6,5's or "regular" small rifle primers, which are already harder than pistol primers...

BTW... maybe someone knows better than I with the Casull, but you may find cases with large primer pockets for large pistol magnu primers ( think I remember reading this ) as it was originally based on the 45 Colt case... I use Star Line cases & they have small rifle primer pockets, but it wouldn't suprise me if some brands, or some older cases had large pistol primer pockets

14cm · October 28, 2009, 04:14 PM

i have loaded and shot probably 2500 rounds of 454 in the last 2 years. they ranged from 9 gr of unique to 31.5 grains of h110 behind a 300 jhp. i have used cci small rifle mag primers in all of them and to date have had zero problems. this is from a frredom arms 83 and a srh

Grump · October 29, 2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

[snip]So, how do I know if my hammer spring isn't stout enough? Will there be unburned powder in the bbl, erratic chrony data, fail to fire?

"erratic chrony data"

An extreme spread in velocity of more than 50 fps will often show up before you get the binary pass/fail signal.

In .357 Mag, I've seen up to 120 fps ES with 100% ignition with CCI regular primers. Tightened up the hammer spring to lift another half-pound and it was back to 35 fps ES, and accuracy improved.

Based on my S&W experience, if you hold the trigger back with the hammer in the fired position, the hammer spur should lift 3 pounds at about the time the hammer starts to move back. Go in the direction of easiest lift, try for 90 degrees from the line from hammer pin to lift point. IME, 2 pounds is too light (even though ignition was 100%), and I have a fairly reliable report that the factory spec is 3 pounds.

October 20, 2009, 09:07 PM	#1
wyobohunter Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Location: Back in Wyoming Posts: 1,125	454 Casull Primers? I know that the 454 Casull requires small rifle primers. I went to my local gun store to pick some up. He had Rem. 6 1/2 (small rifle) and Rem. 7 1/2 (small rifle Bench Rest). The owner told me that Freedom Arms suggests the use of the Rem. 7 1/2 so I bought some. When I got home I looked at FA's website and sure enough... (below is Freedom Arms Data) LOADING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR REVOLVERS MANUFACURED BY FREEDOM ARMS CHAMBERED FOR 454 CASULL ONLY! ALL VELOCITIES ARE FOR : 7.5" PRESSURE BARREL.* BULLET DIAMETERS ARE : .451 / .452 PRIMER SIZE : SMALL RIFLE REM. # 7 1/2 CASE TRIM LENGTH : 1.380" MAXIMUM CASE LENGTH : 1.385" MAXIMUM O.A.L. LENGTH: 1.765" Or see for yourself http://www.freedomarms.com/loading.html Anybody know why this is? Only thing I could figure is maybe the sillouette (sp?) shooter would want bench rest primers. I'm not concerned with accuracy beyond minute of Bear at 15-25 yds.

October 21, 2009, 07:02 AM	#2
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	The 7.5 is a harder cup ( they often recommend the small rifle magnum, or bench rest for 223 semi autos, to prevent slam fires )... I would suspect that with the super high pressures of the 454 ( I have one that I have all the stuff to load for, but so far have not found the time ) that Freedom Arms thinks the harder primer cups, might be safer / hlp prevent pierced primers on this very high pressure round... the only negitive, would be if the revolver didn't have a heavy enough hammer spring to reliably ignite the harder cup... but assume since they are recommending the harder cup, they have already seen to that... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

October 21, 2009, 01:09 PM	#4
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	It should be only failure to fire, primer is usually digital, it's either all or nothing. All that does is change your accuracy problem to minute of bear at 5 yds by the time you pulled the trigger again. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

October 21, 2009, 05:09 PM	#6
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	my 454 is also a Ruger Alaskan... if you are not getting 100% reliable ignition, or the firing pin dents in the primers look shallow ( they may fire fine in warm weather but not fire in cold weather, for example, so make sure the primer is solidly "dented" when you shoot it ), if not, then use the 6,5's or "regular" small rifle primers, which are already harder than pistol primers... BTW... maybe someone knows better than I with the Casull, but you may find cases with large primer pockets for large pistol magnu primers ( think I remember reading this ) as it was originally based on the 45 Colt case... I use Star Line cases & they have small rifle primer pockets, but it wouldn't suprise me if some brands, or some older cases had large pistol primer pockets __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

October 21, 2009, 12:26 PM	#3
wyobohunter Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2008 Location: Back in Wyoming Posts: 1,125	Except I don't have a FA, I have one of those Ruger SRH Alaskans. The gunshop owner/gunsmith guessed it was the same thing you did. So, how do I know if my hammer spring isn't stout enough? Will there be unburned powder in the bbl, erratic chrony data, fail to fire?

October 28, 2009, 04:14 PM	#7
14cm Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 156	i have loaded and shot probably 2500 rounds of 454 in the last 2 years. they ranged from 9 gr of unique to 31.5 grains of h110 behind a 300 jhp. i have used cci small rifle mag primers in all of them and to date have had zero problems. this is from a frredom arms 83 and a srh