223 Bullet With Cannelure Seating Issue

[superwario]

Hey guys,

Ive been having a problem with seating some 55 grain Hornady bullets (FMJ-BT with cannelure)

I'm using the Hornady seater die that also does a roll crimp.

I also size and trim my cases to 1.750 beforehand as well. ( I only size once before I trim, never after)

My problem is that when I am seating the bullet into the case, when the edge of the neck is within the cannelure region, it is ALWAYS loose.

When The bullet is seated above or below the cannelure though, it is rock solid. Now I WOULD just seat it above or below the cannelure, but the entire cannelure region is within the optimal C.O.L. region (the cannelure region fills between 2.200 and 2.260 of the COL)

I hope that made sense.

My Hornady die came as part of the 2-die 223 set with the Sizer/decapper die and the seating/roll crimp die.

Here is the link to it: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=440144

So anyways, i felt like the crimp wasnt going down far enough so i set the crimp part of the die farther down, but then the shoulder would start to compress and get fat while the bullet would still be loose with the neck around the cannelure part. (i can move the bullet up and down and spin it all around the cannelure region, but it stays in the cannelure region).

I have no idea what else to do to troubleshoot this. It just seems like the roll crimp isnt crimping hard enough.

I just bought 6000 of these bullets and dont want them to be useless.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I shulda bought some bullets without cannelure *sigh*

[Sport45]

Welcome to The Firing Line!

It's neck tension, not crimp that is supposed to hold the bullet in place. Back the die out so that it doesn't crimp and see what happens. I don't crimp .223 for my AR's. If you feel you must, use the least amount of crimp you can into the cannelure. The case mouth should not dig into the side of the bullet. I don't recommend any crimp at all if the bullet doesn't have a cannelure. Why deform a perfectly good bullet?

[superwario]

Ive tried with no crimp whatsoever and it still is loose when it hits the cannelure because the cannelure portion is a smaller diameter than the rest of the bullet. VERY frustrating.

[Sport45]

Did you back the crimp die out to where it doesn't touch the case with the ram all the way up? If so, what kind of trimmer are you using? The pilot may be enlarging the case neck. You may have to run the cases through the sizing die again to get the proper neck tension.

The cannelure doesn't have anything to do with how well the case neck holds the bullet. For .223, I load to the length I want without regard to where the cannelure winds up in relation to the case mouth. Some folks crimp, but I haven't found a need to with my AR's.

[Jim243]

Most will tell you not to crimp, but I do crimp my 223 Rem loads, because I use it in an AR. For semi-autos you need to crimp to avoid set back (or at least I do). Since you have a cannelure and 5,000 of those bullets, just spend the $9.00 for a Lee factory crimp die, it will solve your problem.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=456506

Jim

[steve4102]

If I am reading you correctly the deeper you seat the bullet the less neck tension you have?? If this is the case then your seating die is not set up correctly. Raise the ram all the way up, screw the seating die in until it touches the shell holder, Now back the die out of the press a Minimum of 1 full turn. Lock the ring and try again.

[Sport45]

Raise the ram all the way up, screw the seating die in until it touches the shell holder, Now back the die out of the press a Minimum of 1 full turn. Lock the ring and try again.

For a seating die???? I don't think so, not for any I have anyway. That would crush almost any case with my seating dies.

With a sized case in the shellholder and the ram all the way up, screw the die in until you feel the crimp ring touch the top of the case. Lower the ram and screw the die in an additional 1/2 turn for a fairly heavy crimp. Back out 1/4 turn for no crimp. Adjust in-between for the crimp of your liking.

Like I said, try absolutely no crimp at all with an empty, unprimed case and let us know if the bullet is still loose. It most definately should not be loose.

[superwario]

Hey guys.

Regarding the trimmer, I use a Giraud Power Trimmer, the one that looks like a pencil sharpener. All my cases are within +/- .002 of 1.750 so that shouldnt be a problem.

I won't have access to my loading station until later tonight or tomarrow so i will just seating the bullet with no crimp at all and see if that works. Also, I will pop on my sizing die as well to make sure the case neck is up to spec.

Its not that the further i seat the less neck tension i get, my problem is this:

^
| |
| | < When Seated up here, bullet would hold firm
] [ <The case would move around in this entire cannelure part
| | < When sized doen here, bullet would hold firm
| |

Thank you for your quick responses! I will try all the techniques and report back. Also, I will try the lee crimp die if all else fails. Its on sale on midway for 8 bux. I'm shooting these outta my AR so i feel that a crimp is necessary to prevent back-out.

[TXGunNut]

Welcome to the asylum! Something's definitely odd, OP. Read Sport45's posts carefully, I think the answer is in there somewhere. If you need a crimp it won't work without proper neck tension, an improper crimp can actually lessen neck tension. I'd do a bit of measuring too, make sure the case mouth has the proper ID and make sure the bullets are the correct diameter.