52gn A-max keyholing. 222rem.

[mattL46]

Hello folks. Rainy Sundays mean load development. Bought a box of the Hornady Amax 52gn pills to feed to my Sako L46 (pre vixen) in 222 Remington. Using a starting charge of IMR 4198 (18.6gn)with a COL of 2.200" I made two observations the first being this length is too long for my chamber. I encountered a bit of resistance closing the bolt. Not a huge amount. I removed the cartridge and found some light rifling marks on the bullet. I closed the bolt a few times to make sure it would chamber rather freely and did this to the 3 cartridges I loaded. Went ahead and shot them. Noticed a very minute amount of excess pressure on 2 out of 3, little bit of a Ridge building up around the firing pin strike on the primers. 2nd observation was what I'm fairly certain is keyholing. (haven't experienced it in my reloading career yet) While they were actually fairly accurate, I'll be going back to the drawing board. Any suggestions for these two ailments here? I assume my rifle is a 1:14 twist but don't know for sure. As you'll see from the photos the back of the box looks a bit blown out. The lower more open group was a 52gn Sierra HPBT MK I was testing with the same powder. Nice neat holes and those bullets shoot quite well in this gun with other powders. What, if anything can be done about this. I'd appreciate any and all advice. Thanks folks.

[mattL46]

Oops. Having trouble with photos. Coming shortly.

[mattL46]

[mattL46]

[SHR970]

yes.. I see keyholing.

4198 and Amax is not a good combo for your gun. Amax MIGHT work but you'll need a slower powder and drive it to higher velocity for a chance to stabilize. Even then, once veocity drops enough your keyholing will show back up. Could be 100 yards, 300 yards, who knows but it will happen.

[Clark]

My brother has a 16" twist 223 he built with a rimfire barrel that will stabilize some 50 gr but not 52 gr. I know velocity and bullet length are more important than exact weight. But I do not think there are any commercial 222 or 223 rifles with 16" twist.
I have an Enfield that keyholes because the bore so big the riflings do not get traction.

[mattL46]

Maybe I'll try a bit higher velocity. Although the length concerns me a bit. Any advice for that?

[Clark]

Whenever I find these 35 gr Vmax bullets for cheap, I buy them
http://www.hornady.com/store/22-Cal-.224-35-gr-V-MAX/

Tiny groups at 100 yards.
Very good at killing rodents out to 180 yards
Can kill a 220 yards, with compensation for wind and trajectory.

I took a $43 scrap rimfire barrel from Numrich, soldered it onto a $45 Turkish Mauser barrel stub, reamed a 223 chamber, went to the range without an extractor, just a cleaning rod to extract with, and shot a 0.95" 5 shot group at 100 yards.

There were a lot of expensive rifles at that range, this piece of junk with 35 gr Vmax and 15 gr Blue Dot, was the only one shooting sub moa that I saw.

[Road_Clam]

I had a lot of problems loading 4198 for AR gas gun. Way too fast of a burn and I was getting "short stroking" of the piston which was causing ftf's. My go to powder for 53-55gr bullets is W748.

[mattL46]

That's awesome Clark!!! Yeah again I'm not sure what to do with this bullet. The 52gn Amax is a long for weight bullet and the 2.200 oal is a tad too long in my rifle. Should I seat. 010 deeper maybe?

[603Country]

Consult a Lyman 49th manual. Buy and load some flat base 52 gr HP bullets with a powder recommended in the manual. Load to the COAL shown in the manual. That should work just fine. Then tweak the COAL if desired.

[mattL46]

Thanks folks. Would you just trade these bullets off or???

[Jimro]

Trade them if you can, keep them if you can't trade them. It's not like bullets go bad with age (at least if stored properly).

Jimro

[Magnum Wheel Man]

twist rate needed to stabilize, is actually based on length of bullet... often it's related to weight, which is usually proportionate to the length...

a 14" twist barrel will struggle with the longer bullets, ( even though 52 grains will normally stabilize with normal length bullets )

IMO, since not all are keyholing, if you have some space left within safe pressures, you may be able to run the velocity up some, & get stabilization, but you'll likely be on the ragged edge... & something like shooting in the cold, may bput you back to key holeing...

can you find a bullet with similar balistic efficency, that is a few .001's shorter???

[chiefr]

Years of range time as both a shooter and a range master has taught me most key holing is caused by twist relative to bullet length, a worn bore particularly in the last few inches of the muzzle, or wrong bullet diameter.

I assume your bore is good and your bullets are .224, thus twist probably the culprit.

Agree with Magnum, speed things up a bit and see if it helps.

[SSA]

Seat the bullets deeper so they're not touching the lands.
The longer bullets aren't stabilizing. You could try clipping off the plastic tip. That might make enough of a difference.

[44 AMP]

Seat the bullets deeper so they're not touching the lands.

THIS!! IT won't matter to your keyholing issue, but it will help with your pressures.

Tight up against the rifling is NOT a good idea. Shorten the round enough to its not touching the rifling, and try again.

1-14" twist is correct for you old Sako, its the "standard" twist for all the older .222s and works well for the bullet designs of the era.

The new "long" bullets developed for the .223 and fast twist AR barrels are not the best choice for the .222Rem. Try the "old fashioned" 52/53gr match bullets from Sierra or Hornday, or any of the 50gr SPs out there, these have always worked well in my .222s both rifle and hangun. IMR4198 works well in my bolt action rifle and Contender, but neither of those are "bench guns".

Definitely BACK OFF THE RIFLING if you are going to try to increase the speed!!

Trade or sell the long bullets, if you can, and get something the rifle was built for. Somewhere I have a partial box of 70gr ,224 Vmax slugs, came to me as part of a package deal. I have .22 Hornet, .222, .223, & .22-250, and cannot use those slugs in any of them(.223 is an old Mini14). I keep meaning to take them to a show and sell or trade them, but I always forget, because they are buried in with lots of other stuff I have acquired, but can't use...

[Magnum Wheel Man]

it's really amaizing how much difference the twist rate can make... my 14" twist 223 Contender barrel doesn't even like 55 grain bullets, yet I have a custom revolver in 22 Hornet, with a 6" 1 in 9" twist barrel, & that will stabilize up to 68 grain bullets every time ( I've not tried anything heavier )

for my 222 Contender Carbine barrel, I get cloverleaf groups, with Sierra 50 grain spitzer flat bases ( not sure if they still make those ) but if I were shopping new bullets, I might look at these...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/148...oint-boat-tail

[ammo.crafter]

This has been an historically accurate cartridge since its introduction.

Make certain your full length dies are set correctly.

My recipe for the last 40+ years:

IMR 4198 @ 19.0gr
Sierra 52gr BTHP
Remington 71/2 primer

I've been hitting thumb tacks at 100yds without any problem.

Remington 600 bolt action

[mattL46]

Yeah I figured it was the length of the bullet that was causing my issues. I load a 52gn Sierra HPBT that shoots great. I won't give up on them yet. I'll seat them a little deeper and get them off the lands and slowly work up. I was surprised that Hornady published length was too long. I'm not so much now considering this is s fairly modern bullet for this rifle. Thanks folks.

[mattL46]

@ammo crafter I actually tested the bottom end of that recipe yesterday as well. That is the more open group you see on the target below the keyhole group. It shot well and I'll continue to work with it. I'm a little wobbly so won't blame the ammo. I necksize my 222 brass but don't mind experimenting with full length.

[HiBC]

I worked with a XP -100 that had been rechambered to .223.14 in twist.
55 gr military bullets were beyond keyholing.
It shot 52 gr Matchkings really well.
Its not a weight thing as much as its a length thing.The A-maxes are a long bullet.
I agree,if you seat them a bit deaper,and find a powder that gives you more fps,your RPM's and stability will go up.MAYBE enough.

[mattL46]

I agree that it is worth a try. They didn't all key hole. The last shot was the worst. That is the one you see that flopped to its side. The first was an ugly hole the second I think it spun fairly true.

[Hunter Customs]

Clark,

Have you ever considered writing a book or maybe you have written a book, either way I enjoy reading your post.
I also wished I lived close enough to hang around with you for a while.

As for plastic tipped bullets, I had a strange experience shooting some Sierra Blitzkings the other day, I've not decided yet if it was me, the bullets or the rifle.
I know the human is usually the weak link but I'm not sure that's the case this time.

I will do further testing at a latter date.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

[Clark]

Thanks Bob,
I am currently just working on making gun forum posts.
The last time it felt like I got something done was on Mosin Nagant trigger mods


I can tell from the date, I have not done much in 5 years.
That video got 20k views and 100 thumbs up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPn8IdNJ_SE

I am currently working on a universal Mauser steel bedding idea.
If I could do a good video on that, I would feel successful.