September 27, 2012, 02:03 PM | #26 |
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My uncle was in the Korean War,,,
He told me that he carried a snub-nose 38 in a pouch hidden in his pants,,,
His thought was that if he was captured they might miss that gun. He said he couldn't remember the brand of the gun,,, But he talked about his "Owl Head" .38,,, I suspect it was an Iver-Johnson. I knew an Air Force AP in the early 70's,,, He carried a Model 19 instead of his issued Model 15,,, Apparently he had been doing it for years and no one ever noticed. How he successfully snuck it from base to base I'll never know,,, I spent three hours at Frankfurt explaining a wall-hanger dagger in my duffle bag. Aarond .
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September 27, 2012, 07:59 PM | #27 |
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Webley...you are correct...it was a Combat Masterpiece...my mistake....38 Special with a 4" tube and adj. sights, but with the small S&W Magna? grips that needed a filler behind the trigger guard. Rod
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September 27, 2012, 09:24 PM | #28 |
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I read an account, I want to say it was Eugene Sledge in "With the Old Breed" but it might have been "Bloody Ridge" that talked about a former FBI agent turned Marine who used a .357 Magnum in the Pacific.
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September 27, 2012, 09:40 PM | #29 |
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Handgun ammunition was indeed available at PXs in rear area. I bought enough 7.62, or was it 7.65mm Tokerev to feed a Chinese "Burp gun" with one magazine. I emptied it out and threw the gun away.
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September 28, 2012, 06:59 AM | #30 |
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What the hell was the PX doing selling Chinese ammo?
What year and where? Was it battlefield pick up ammo that they were selling to guys to feed their Tokarev trophies or something?
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September 28, 2012, 08:16 AM | #31 | |
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September 28, 2012, 08:26 AM | #32 | |||
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Fairly common for Army Aviation unit members to have personal side arms. The problem was no .357 ammo in the system. Quote:
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September 28, 2012, 09:37 PM | #33 |
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IIRC, the FMJ ammo of the gangster era was for the penetration of body armor occasionally worn by the thugs and other varuious outlaws.
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September 28, 2012, 11:37 PM | #34 | |
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September 29, 2012, 06:35 AM | #35 |
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For what its worth I believe French special force squads were/are equipped with a French made 357. Dennis
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September 29, 2012, 12:38 PM | #36 | |
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September 29, 2012, 01:39 PM | #37 | |
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Mike Irwin wrote:
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September 29, 2012, 02:36 PM | #38 | |
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Not sure what the rules are for soldiers, but a contractor would get in major trouble if caught with an unauthorized weapon. Fired at the very least.
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September 29, 2012, 02:55 PM | #39 |
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Rather off topic, but all the talk about buying ammo in the PX got me thinking. Here in Idaho we have exactly one active duty military installation. Mountain Home Air Force Base.
A couple years ago I was in Mountain Home's BX and much to my surprise I came across a very well stocked gun counter. All the major brands were there. Ruger, Glock, Taurus, S&W, Remington, Winchester, Browning, Beretta, H&K, SIG, Henry and Kimber. I was impressed. When I was in the Army (1986-2000) the idea of buying firearms and ammo in the PX would have been considered a pipe-dream. The Air Force has it good. Has always had it better than the Army. |
September 29, 2012, 06:30 PM | #40 |
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I learned that phesant are actually native to the far east, especiall China and Korea. I was surprised when the Service Club near Seoul got up a phesant hunt. Even more surprising was that shotguns could be checked out of the Service Club. I went expecting some ratty Winchester Model 97 or something like that, only to get a Browning Superposed!
Didn't get a phesant, by the way. The PX sold a Japanese made shotgun called a Nikko, and we joked about it still having Budweiser logo visivle in the barrels. These $130 US. Learned after it was too late Nikko was the maker of the Winchester 101 O/U shotguns! Bob Wright |
September 29, 2012, 08:03 PM | #41 | |
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Ammo can be shipped but it must be ground. Ammo can't be sent by air. No explosives can be transported via air. When getting ammo from the states to say Nam, it didn't get there by truck. Also, the mail restrictions were much more lax back then than they were a few months ago... |
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September 30, 2012, 12:30 AM | #42 | |
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The Russians took it a step further and used a thick layered silk tunic with a nickel steel breatplate over that. During WW 2 the Russians fielded a mass produced Manganese steel breastplate that could stop the 9mm from a pistol at close range and from an MP40 at 100 yards or so. One Russian reported that a German officer had emptied a full clip into his breastplate from across a room and no bullets pentrated, but he didn't state the caliber so it may have been a .32 officers sidearm. Anyway I figure that if the Communists had any body armor, even captured Japanese stuff, the Japanese also having developed manganese steel armor during WW2, then the unifoorm coat would have hidden it. Also since in China silk scrap would be cheap they could make quilted linings that had some resistence to penetration if thick enough. Another factor that could come into play. Tests using more powerful rifle cartridges against the silk armor indicated that passing through the vest somehow stabilized the bullet and slowed it so any wound would be much less severe. In intense cold such a wound from a Carbine at any great distance might not be felt as more than a punch, the victim not even realizing he had been shot for some minutes. PS The Russians also developed thin titanium inserts to be placed in the inside pockets of the greatcoat, but I think that came later. |
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September 30, 2012, 04:45 AM | #43 |
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Very interesting information Rainbow Demon. Thanks.
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September 30, 2012, 06:07 AM | #44 |
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I would posit that anything a .357 could penetrate so could a .30 Carbine at much higher velocity. I would think an M2 Carbine (full auto variant of the M1 Carbine) would be just the ticket against circa 1950 Chinese armor.
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September 30, 2012, 08:36 AM | #45 |
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Not to side track the original topic, but I doubt the most of those M1 Carbine stories are true. It's almost always someone who knew someone, or heard it somewhere. If the clothing could stop a 30 carbine round from an 18" rifle barrel, a 357 round from a 4"-6" pistol barrel wasn't going to do any better. I suspect that if it honestly did happen a few times, it was either lousy ammo or GI's using the round outside the effective range of the caliber...firing at long ranges when the GI with M1's began firing. Or they just flat missed, got a hit on a thick coat but failed to hit the body inside it.
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September 30, 2012, 08:49 AM | #46 |
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Back in the mid 80's we had the option to carry a S&W 28.They were probably purchased in addition to the S&W 10,Colt off.pol,and Ruger service six that were still in inventory.As to whether they ever made it to combat?
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September 30, 2012, 09:29 AM | #47 |
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I remember seeing a few of our Air Force officers carrying .38 Specials during the '91 Persian Gulf War. They were not pilots; the pilots were carrying Berettas and some 1911s.
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September 30, 2012, 10:07 AM | #48 |
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French :
http://www.chapuis-armes.com/26-manurhin Said to be used by some special forces as mentioned before. The MR-88 was some chimera with Ruger collaboration.
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October 1, 2012, 05:24 AM | #49 |
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Rainbow Demon: another factor to consider is that many NK & Chinese troops would tuck a piece of scrap metal inside their coats as makeshift body armor. That could also explain part of the M1 carbine ineffectiveness myth.....
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October 1, 2012, 01:29 PM | #50 | ||
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One selling point of the M1 Carbine was that it would penetrate the various known body armor types available before and during WW2. In USN tests the Japanese armor stopped the .45 ACP fairly easily. Some photos from the Japanese occupation of China show Japanese officers wearing elaborate steel breastplates over their uniform tunics. The .357 would be unlikely to out do the carbine, but would out do the .45 ACP in penetration of body armor, helmets, and the sheet metal of light vehicles, just as in civilian LEO applications. PS At some point a gasmask pouch was available with a pocket at the back for insertion of a thin manganese steel plate, don't know if these were ever used. The British Manufactured thousands of reinforced fabric Chem armor vest near the end of WW1 for a final big push that proved un necessary. Also the U S technical manuals on small arms ammunition list a number of non standard rounds for use in non regular issue handguns in inventory for un specified reasons. Last edited by Rainbow Demon; October 1, 2012 at 01:36 PM. |
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